More Islamic antics...kill your daughters before they sin....

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    More Islamic antics...kill your daughters before they sin....

    MULTAN, Pakistan (AP) - Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" - a crime that shocked Pakistan.

    The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, confessed to just one regret - that he didn't murder the stepsister's alleged lover too.

    Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

    The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more than half of such cases that make it to court, most end with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging.

    Ahmed's killing spree - witnessed by his wife Rehmat Bibi as she cradled their 3 month-old baby son - happened Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab province.

    It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.

    Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he then killed the three girls - Bano, 8, Sumaira, 7, and Humaira, 4 - pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.

    "I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, told AP by phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you.'"

    "The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she said.

    The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.

    Speaking to AP in the back of police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition. Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want them to do the same when they grew up.

    He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers on Friday and hid them in the house where he carried out the killings.

    "I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect but our honor."

    Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery - a claim made by her husband - the rights commission reported that according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.

    Police have said they do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged lover.

    Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother, who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is customary under Islamic tradition.

    "Women are treated as property and those committing crimes against them do not get punished," said the rights commission's director, Kamla Hyat. "The steps taken by our government have made no real difference."

    Activists accuse President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a self-styled moderate Muslim, of reluctance to reform outdated Islamized laws that make it difficult to secure convictions in rape, acid attacks and other cases of violence against women. They say police are often reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes as family disputes.

    Statistics on honor killings are confused and imprecise, but figures from the rights commission's Web site and its officials show a marked reduction in cases this year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable figures.

    Ijaz Elahi, the ministry's joint secretary, said the violence was decreasing and that increasing numbers of victims were reporting incidents to police or the media. Laws, including one passed last year to beef up penalties for honor killings, had been toughened, she said.

    Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death sentence if he is convicted for the killings and terrorizing his neighborhood.

    Ahmed, who did not resist arrest, was unrepentant.

    "I told the police that I am an honorable father and I slaughtered my dishonored daughter and the three other girls," he said. "I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire."
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    I don't agree with Muslim attitudes towards women, on the whole .

    But I must say some people here on this thread , sound like some Germans in the 1930's talking about Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick+
    I don't agree with Muslim attitudes towards women, on the whole .

    But I must say some people here on this thread , sound like some Germans in the 1930's talking about Jews.

    Yours being the first post outside the article above I am struggling to figure who these other people on the thread are? The article itself presented no direct opinion other than reporting the sickness that this person spreads in the name of his honor justified by his religion.

    However, I see the similarity in the two. Perhaps this time around the world can avoid another holocaust. Seems like we may be headed in that direction. If the victims outcry for protection goes unanswered and these kinds of things continue then another Hitler would have little problem finding a following.

    A solution to this kind of problem must be found. It should have been found hundreds of years ago but some of the world insists on remaining in the stone age.
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    He's referencing another thread, here.

    I think the key thing to take away from this article is not the act, but the reaction by the people around him. Obviously this action is not condoned by his community, and there are penalties in place to punish people who behave this way.
    It's humbling to start fresh. It takes a lot of courage. But it can be reinvigorating. You just have to put your ego on a shelf & tell it to be quiet. - J.R. Payette

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    I read that article posted there. It led me to find this story. Seems there are some extremists that are so far out of control it is unfathomable.

    I certainly do not have the answers but these kind of extremists continue to get away with little penalty in proportion to the crime.
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    These countries are overpopulated anyway

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    There have been various 'holocausts' since WW2.

    And slower acts of 'genocide'(not a word I like) be it Israeli {-who suffered under Hitler along with the gypsies and various other people -}towards the Palestinians, or Pol Pot, or Saddam (with the support of the West). + others

    I'm sure the American/Brit('coalition') invasion of Iraq in 2003 seemed like a 'holocaust' to many Iraqies (however much they hated Saddam- who was kept longer in power than he should have been anyway because of Western interference).......

    I've more or less given up hope the 'human kind' they have learned nothing and they never will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick+
    I don't agree with Muslim attitudes towards women, on the whole .

    But I must say some people here on this thread , sound like some Germans in the 1930's talking about Jews.
    Last time I checked the Jews didn't go around blowing up themselves in crowded places trying to inflict as many civilian casaulties as possible, condone rape, or have an insatiable hatred toward their neighbors.

    I'm not a Jew, and yet the comparison is offensive. Jews were persecuted for no reason. Muslims are targetting Christians, Jews, and pretty much anything Western, and yet they are being persecuted? I didn't think we were beheading Muslims and broadcasting it on world wide TV. Why don't you consider who is really committing genocide here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brogers
    Last time I checked the Jews didn't go around blowing up themselves in crowded places trying to inflict as many civilian casaulties as possible, condone rape, or have an insatiable hatred toward their neighbors.

    I'm not a Jew, and yet the comparison is offensive. Jews were persecuted for no reason. Muslims are targetting Christians, Jews, and pretty much anything Western, and yet they are being persecuted? I didn't think we were beheading Muslims and broadcasting it on world wide TV. Why don't you consider who is really committing genocide here.

    The Jews didn't do any of those things, it's true, but the people who followed Hitler believed they should die for other reasons. It's just different lyrics to the same tune, dude.
    It's humbling to start fresh. It takes a lot of courage. But it can be reinvigorating. You just have to put your ego on a shelf & tell it to be quiet. - J.R. Payette

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    Quote Originally Posted by brogers
    Last time I checked the Jews didn't go around blowing up themselves in crowded places trying to inflict as many civilian casaulties as possible, condone rape, or have an insatiable hatred toward their neighbors.

    I'm not a Jew, and yet the comparison is offensive. Jews were persecuted for no reason. Muslims are targetting Christians, Jews, and pretty much anything Western, and yet they are being persecuted? I didn't think we were beheading Muslims and broadcasting it on world wide TV. Why don't you consider who is really committing genocide here.
    Don' t hold a minority of extreme muslim fundamentalists responsible, as an example of all living Muslims. Most Muslims in Syria,Iran ,Egypt whatever are just people trying to earn their daily crust- like in any other country.
    Same goes for Israelies, Palestinians , French, Americans , Russians, Chinese etc etc.

    The state of Israel was set up with the aid of a lot of terrorism, bombs in Hotels, poisening of the Arab's (Palestinian)water supplies, some of this courtesy of the 'Stern' gang .........(which nowadays would be called 'terrorist').

    Some Palestians, kicked off their land and out of their homes in 1948, and presently having their olive trees bulldozed, and their land partitioned by a (Berlin type) wall might rightfully be feeling pretty bitter.

    Small suprise for the resentment..........

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    Sounds like my Dad
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  12. #12
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    Just another case of people so wrapped up in their beliefs that they're blind to reason.
    Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
    not yet plucked as to slacken the seams
    and drag down the features of age,
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    no sign of despair in their hair, nor their hearts
    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniclion
    Just another case of people so wrapped up in their beliefs that they're blind to reason.
    Yea I agree, but how WOULD one behave when caught up in a situation like that?

    I watch it from the outside 'and pronounce upon the situation', I am not really involved..........(though 'my' goverment probably is.........)

    Most people on the West Bank or in East Jerusalem, don't want any of this shit with religion. But like hell, when a wall (or a barbed wire fence)goes up next to you cutting you off from family or your agricultural land, what the fuck does one do?


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