Good read about tendons.
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.
Deca and winny stacked seems to be a popular stack for this reason. You get strength, mass, hardness, fat loss, and the benefits of collagen synthesis. First time I have heard of winny helping collagen synthesis.
I still have yet to hear of the so called deca dick from those I have spoken with. They keep their levels at 400mg/wk. I would put their after cyle gains ahead of the test only gang anyday and this is without the post cycle therapy. Deca works off estrogenic priciples not dht, so a lot of the benefits associated with increased gh levels are found in deca.
Of course I have never tried the stuff, I just believe in a therapy based drugs for long term gains should one take the plunge.
Read it again...winny is terrible for your tendons and thats why I would never use it.Originally Posted by jasone
read alot of things again, your wrong on alot of stuffOriginally Posted by jasone
Originally Posted by Luke8395
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Where am I wrong, always willing to learn.Originally Posted by kicka19
1. Foreman did say winny increased collegen synth. but made the tendons brittle so yes, that is a bad thing. Deca might help.
2. Estrogen helps in gh production so that is not a bad thing unless you have too much extra estrogen. Doesn't deca produce an estrogen response?
3. I could be wrong on post recovery drugs but never heard of their use at less than 400mgs/ wk.
4. I wouldn't leave my girl one second in a room with these deca dick bastards because they can and will f**k with plenty of wood left for another.
5. Those on test blow up like balloons, holy s**t, it's crazy. This is often mistaken as muscle gain to these lifters. Eventually they quit, the water drops, and they have bigger muscles but a busted ego because they expected more considering their sheer size while on cycle. Deca is not as dramatic but the gains look more permanent.
6. Not sure where I went wrong, it's hard to find medical articles on these types of drugs. There are difinately two trains of thought. I read these post all the time. Not sure where Foreman stands on test vs deca only cylces leaving out the deca dick factor.
I liked the article anyway.
Unfortunately, collagen is often misunderstood. Yes, it is stronger than steel ounce for ounce. It provides tensile strength for your tendons and ligaments, which helps them not to tear, but it may reduce their elastic properties, as well. One should keep in mind that scars are almost pure collagen. More collagen isn’t necessarily always better—even though increased collagen helps prevent tendon tears.
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How to Use HCG
1.pct is needed for less than 400mg, as long as you are shut down for any amount of time you will need pct. for instance, u do 10mg of superdrol, thats 70mg a week, still need pct or you can kiss good by to any gains.Originally Posted by jasone
2. deca dick is real, foreman has stated many time he will never use deca again because he couldnt get it up for KEFE numerious time while n dece
Originally Posted by Luke8395
I've seen that floated around, I wish it had citations.
it increases protein synthesis 50 times faster ?
is that 50 times faster or 50% faster ?
how much quicker will you grow and/or increase in strength ?
(April 1).........................(by Oct 1)
Leg Press: 880 x 5 ish.......Leg Press:1000
Mil Press:150 ish x4 ish......Mil Press:250