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  1. #1
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    copper deficiency






    I just got my labs test back and serum copper and ceruoplasm were low. What are the effects of a proven copper deficiency and how would it impact ones metabolism, digestion, anabolism? I beleive the reasoning for the low levels were too many antagonistic factors sulfur, lipoic, acid, excess zinc, ect
    Thanks

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    Excess zinc would be my first guess. Acid? Naw..its soluble in acid; to remove acids you want to chelate them, not acidify them. Sulfates/sulfites...whats your source for so much sulfer? Lipoic acid? Sure, it has sulfur and could potentially chelate your copper.

    Thing is, a lab test is used to confirm a deficiency. Do you have symptoms of copper deficiency, HAN?

    Lets start there. And then talk about copper-containing foods, and its role in health, as a active metal reactive center in many enzyme complexes.

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    Yes all symptoms of copper: hair loss, lack of appetite, anemic like symptoms even when ferritin, b-12, folic acid is adequete, weight loss, retard growth, low thyroid, chills, lack of pigmentation in skin, and hair discoloration it has like a blue gray tint to it vs normal color, blood sugar irregularities.
    Symptoms got worse when following detoxification protocol

    i can only speculate becauase symtpoms of copper deficeincy are same as iron..Biggest one is short ness of breath and feeling of lack of oxygen to tissue. Is there a specific one that i should look for

    Food wise dr has me eating 6 whole eggs a day organic to try to flush out their assume "mercury toxicity" with 5 grams MSM, 400 mcgs molybenum, 600 mgs alpha lipioic, large dosages of b complexes, folic acid, extra manganese, ketogenic diet ( High fat lots of fruits and veggies) , alot of cocconut oil (saturated fats)

    And here I found that high fat and fructose makes copper deficeinc worse!!
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/1/105

    I have always had low normal copper and ceruoplasm, for longest time (after i got sick) but it was ignored by drs because I was like one point from the lowest number on the serum level but never "out of range" but now symptoms expecially in the blood are really starting to show. Since going on DETOX diet my white blood cell count and neutrophils dropped out of normal range !! Copper based foods before I got sick was NONE!! I did not eat nuts, liver, ect and I read that using stimulents such as caffine and ephederine, winstrol could possible make your body use more copper since adrenals secret adrenailine which stimulate the copper enzyme ceruoplasm. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

    For over 2 years my body was craving nuts, cashews, sunflour seeds, amonds and I never knew why could it been that it wanted the copper in them. all of these unsalted

    MY adrenals seem to be functioinig again from stress reduction techniques and also stopping fish extra fish oils which were over loaded in my system from red cell lipid analysis. Since fish oils suppresses immune system, and lowers cortisol.

    Serum cortisol verified this at 17 range 4-22. But before the test I was in an arguement with the nurse 5 minutes before the blood drawn. Could this have altered the cortisol response and given a false high?

    But I am waiting on the salvia cortisol to come back to verify this. I am not converting t-4 to t-3 optimally and this is a problem from the start could copper be involved some how with this

    copper based foods now are nuts, cashew, almonds with 5 mgs copper chelate and reducing the chelating agents (zinc, ALA, mangansese, iron,eggs, fats) and then I can retest from their in 5 weeks to see if they rose.

    I took 50 mgs of iron other night and started to hypovenulate ? was that because of low copper levels ?

    Does zinc even in chelated form affect copper metabolism ?

    What function if any does have copper have on gluthione ?

    I was thinking wilson's disease, but I only got check in the eyes no rings were found. Would a copper urine test be more appropiate?

    what are Biological implication of low copper ?

    Thanks
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-22-2006 at 10:53 AM.

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    >Yes all symptoms of copper: hair loss, lack of appetite, anemic like symptoms even when ferritin, b-12, folic acid is adequete, weight loss, retard growth, low thyroid, chills, lack of pigmentation in skin, and hair discoloration it has like a blue gray tint to it vs normal color, blood sugar irregularities.
    Symptoms got worse when following detoxification protocol

    Well, we know your thyroid isn't functioning correctly. Skin with a blue-grey tint to it..nail beds would be blue, that would seem to suggest imparied oxygen transport. Zinc also plays a role in pigmentation of skin and hair, and its a known issue for hypothyroidism. Oxygen transport tends to be the domain of heme (iron) function.

    We'll get to that one further down in this reply.

    I would be ...hestitant to lay all your problems at the feet of mineral deficiency. Your 'detox' program seems to have stripped out some minerals, and thats not a surprise if it featues use of EDTA to chelate mercury.

    [HAN, your problem lies in your tinkering with your chemistry..you don't have a disease as much as disrupted tissue function, most of it self induced. Thats a harsh reality, but I'm beginning to suspect its the truth here.]

    It has tendency to chelate a lot more than just mercury.

    Now, your digestion, and healthy functioning of your gut just might be an issue here. Your have very specific mechansims for elimination of mercury, and that involves blood catalase in lungs, transport of the deactivated mercury to waste processing and diposal (liver) and excretion into the lower GI.

    And that is where the facultative anerobes and their ability to access and process excreted compounds comes into play. Fiber consistancy in gut solid waste controls the action of these bacteria, who are there at the end of the pipeline, feeding comensalistically, part of a community, on the flotsam that comes down the food processing pipe/waste disposal system.

    By the time excreted metals reaches this population, they should be hindred from accessing fiber bound contaminants, cause its supposed to have a certain consistancy. 'Nuf water bound to keep it mobile, but also enough fiber to give it structure, and provide a safety net to keep these anerobes from reactivating certain contaminants - meaning keeps them turning heavy metals and organic toxins into potenial carcinogens.

    Those fecal coliform are sorta neutral players in gut for us...they have a limited role in your gut transformation of food, but an important role in futher breakdown of excreted matter in the environment.

    Nature tends to think ahead for whats necessary in chemcial recycle.

    So lets get back to your issues...that aside is a hint, to that you look to your diet first off, for a key on how to regain your health.

    Healthy diet, rich in fiber, soluble and insoluble, is a key to metal processing and waste disposal. Don't need no chelators - you got them built into a healthy diet and metabolic function in a buncha different tissues.

    >alot of cocconut oil (saturated fats)

    Moderation here, same as with fish oils. I wouldn't be quick to pitch the baby out with the bathwater. The coconut oil is to help stimulate adnrenal function (which is palmitic acid derived)...but there are better fats for it, one that you have reduced in diet for some reason: ALA.

    300 mg of the active form (R-enantiomer, potassium salt) is what you want. Do not use the fuckchop mixed enantiomer form (alpha lipoic acid, mixed R and S), you want the version that is predominantly R form, because the S form seems to have some negative (binding inhibition), and you wouldn't find it in natural sources, it being produced biologically in the R form, and only synthetically in the S form (synthesis yields a 50:50 mix of the the two, in cheap ass supplements).

    > And here I found that high fat and fructose makes copper deficeinc worse!!

    HAN, fructose is just not a good idea for you, your have insulin sensitivity problems. I think you need to review your diet recommendations and its, ahh, tendency to cause more problems, rather than solve them.

    >For over 2 years my body was craving nuts, cashews, sunflour seeds, amonds and I never knew why could it been that it wanted the copper in them. all of these unsalted

    Could just as well be a craving for other micronutrients in these foods, including fat. Given that you were, ahh, prone to stripping fat down to real low levels for competition.

    >MY adrenals seem to be functioinig again from stress reduction techniques and also stopping fish extra fish oils which were over loaded in my system from red cell lipid analysis. Since fish oils suppresses immune system, and lowers cortisol.

    So how much are you taking? Should be about 4-5 grams of pure EPA/DHA, which works out to about 8-10 grams of fish oil.

    Too little PUFAn-3 (omega 3s fatty acids) and too much saturated fats, thats asking for problems in phospholipid tissue profiles in membranes. That changes fluidity, and that fluidity affects enzyme function in membranes. Key here is that the PL (phospholipid) composition is unique in various tissues - for a darned good reason, evolutionarily determined.

    I think thats part of your problem (membrane fluidity), but I could be wrong. Moderation is what you want here, HAN, you need some, and you need to avoid the pressure from well meaning physicians to over dose, unless there is damn compelling reason for doing so...and even then, its kept short term.

    >Serum cortisol verified this at 17 range 4-22. But before the test I was in an arguement with the nurse 5 minutes before the blood drawn. Could this have altered the cortisol response and given a false high?

    Maybe, but i think the time of day (like morning) is going to have an overwhelming effect on plasma cortisol measured...like 8 times the concentration of late afternoon. Get my point? The incremental change in a few minutes, ain't be enough to give you a bad number.

    > I am not converting t-4 to t-3 optimally and this is a problem from the start could copper be involved some how with this

    Thats where glutathione, selenium, methionine and cysteine metabolism come in.

    You fucked your adrenals over right good, and they sort shut down on you a while ago. You also have stress control issues that need attention, because all the supps in the world ain't gonna keep you from hypogonadal, hypoadrenal, and hypothyroid issues, if you can't keep a lid on stress...its that evening/early morning (zero hour to 8am) rise in cortisol that you want to keep from being too high, or too low. Interestingly, its the daytime cortisol levels that can drop off and cause overt problems, but its the nightnight elevated cortisol that can sneak up and really muck up thyroid, brain, and adrenal function, from disrupted sleep and cellular repairs.

    >I took 50 mgs of iron other night and started to hypovenulate ? was that because of low copper levels ?

    No sir, it was due to your fucked up rationalization of your health problems and directly from overdose of iron:

    "Serum iron levels greater than 300µg/dL (combined with transferrin oversaturation) may indicate iron poisoning which is characterized by
    abdominal pain, diarrhea, or vomiting which progresses to pallor or cyanosis, lassitude, drowsiness, hyperventilation due to acidosis, and
    cardiovascular collapse."

    This suggests you might have a problem with pH regulation. Carnosine is a pH regulator, as is phosphate. NAC also plays a role.

    Does zinc even in chelated form affect copper metabolism ?

    >What function if any does have copper have on gluthione ?

    You download this pdf and peep this article carefully. The answer is: highly important.

    >I was thinking wilson's disease, but I only got check in the eyes no rings were found. Would a copper urine test be more appropiate?

    That diagnosis and dignostic test, HAN, lies in the hands of the physicians you're seeing. I'm not here for diagnosis and treatment, just to answer your questions best as I can, but I am not a clinical medical practitioner.

    >what are Biological implication of low copper ?

    Do a search on the term:

    The physiological role of copper....and ...the problems of copper nutritional deficiency.

    Its roles include:removing excesses of free radicals, biogenic amines and cholesterol --the proper synthesis of hemoglobin, elastin, collagen and probably thyroid hormones --providing the energy formed in the respiratory chain and needed for biochemical syntheses and proper physical activity.

    Not a brief chit-chat topic, but given your concerns, one worthy of your time for a little self education.

    Glutathione, thats the ticket you want to concentate on, HAN. Its a big player in the role of renormalizing chemcially interrupted thyroid function.
    Last edited by Trouble; 05-22-2006 at 12:03 PM.

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    Thanks these shed alot of light on things. Since my adrenals seem to be functioning sleep quality has improved tremendously, but again to narrow it down just to adrenals with so many other things going on is hard to say. The stress reduction priniciples are defineltyl making a difference.

    i am on a well balanced whole food diet with everything in moderation. i use organic butter, EVO olive oil, hemp oil for my fats,

    I know my ph is off because my anion gap is way out of range, but they seem not so concerned. All krebs cycle metabolites are low, except ammonia is n normal range. If my body is low on lactic acid and pyruvate in tissues where is it being stored in my blood?

    You did make up a good point about soluable and insoluable fiber. It has very little insoluable fiber because of lack of grains, and tons of soluable fiber from green veggies, fruits. Fruits will be moderated to once a day 1 serving. Insolubale fiber will be increased as noted.

    Digestion is rather poor but I can not get an GI dr to test for low stomach acids they do not beleive in it, but I do what them to rule out celiac disease or shorten villa. From being hypometabolism digestion is very slow.

    Would taking digetive enzyme in offset for the low stomach acids and would I still be able to get the minerals from my food?

    I use using the regular ALA vs R-ala could that have made a difference?

    i have reduced the zinc to just what is in the multivitamin and no extra
    i stopped shot gunning b vitamin and went to lower more balanced approach

    Your point about Membrane fluidity seems valid as my body seems to be holding on to toxins and not letting nutrients in.


    By RBC lipid profile
    ratio of 3:6 omegas was 10:1 vs the 1:4 ratio ---will this impact cell membrane function as you indicated

    ferrtin levels serum was 60 out of 300
    Calcium levels are now back from high normal to midrange so that is a BIG PLUS


    So there have been improvements little bit at a time...
    Since rebalancing things breathing has gotten better in last week so we must be on the right track. i am just trying to keep every thing balanced and not go over board like before. THis has been problem drs have been looking at bits and pieces and have not even concidered stress reduction only to have you take paxil and thats there conclusion as diagnosis for many people
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-22-2006 at 02:42 PM.

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    Lengthy Reply 3

    >but again to narrow it down just to adrenals with so many other things going on is hard to say. The stress reduction priniciples are defineltyl making a difference.

    Yes, its thyroid, brain and liver. You are a classic case, albeit with a twist from the detoxification treatment.

    >i am on a well balanced whole food diet with everything in moderation. i use organic butter, EVO olive oil, hemp oil for my fats.

    I will point out two items of concerrn. 1. Your saturated fat intake is high -you should be using olive oil, a product like sesalean for cooking along with EVO, a little walnut oil for variety in your salads, and fish oil. I would avoid the use of butter and reduce your use of coconut fats to a low level.

    2. If you have...indulged in ahh, maryjane enjoyment in the past, you may wish to be circumspect in your use of hemp oil. Its not unknown for those with disturbed immune systems to have an internal immune reaction (allergetic) to hemp oil products. That might cause gastric upset, as does butter if one has gallbladder disburbances due to bile acid issues in liver.

    >I know my ph is off because my anion gap is way out of range, but they seem not so concerned.

    You can remedy that situation. Magnesium citrate provides you with magnesium, which you maybe deficient in, given your leaky cell junction issues in guy and most likely kidney as well. It affords you with a buffering system and also with a fatty acid intermediate for energy.

    >All krebs cycle metabolites are low, except ammonia is n normal range. If my body is low on lactic acid and pyruvate in tissues where is it being stored in my blood?

    Be glad you don't have ammonia clearance issues, thank god for small miracles. TCA upset, problems with lactic acid transport/membrane translocation, of which there are three independent pathways (see my post in the lactic acid thread)..your problem is that there is disruption at the top of the pathway. You probably need a metabolic pathways lab analysis to get a better picture of where the disruption occurs, and from that, how to supplement and alter diet to help correct it.

    >Insolubale fiber will be increased as noted.

    Slowly, HAN, add in a little more barley bran to your shakes weekly. No fast changes, your gut can't handle it.

    >but I do what them to rule out celiac disease or shorten villa. From being hypometabolism digestion is very slow.

    You have a glutamine sulfatase issue. Glutamine supplementation plus magnesium will help. When you take this, use TMG 20 min ahead, to buffer the glucogenic hit to your pancreas. This will also slow gastic emptying, and allow the glutamine to be absorbed a bit better. Again, work up in dose.

    >Would taking digetive enzyme in offset for the low stomach acids and would I still be able to get the minerals from my food?

    The TMG will help (betaine is acidic) and yes, Super Enzyme by Now Foods might not be a bad idea to help your leaky gut syndrome.

    >I use using the regular ALA vs R-ala could that have made a difference?

    Geronova has a dependable and reputable form of KRALA that you should be using in preference to the low grade mixed enantiomer form of lipoic acid.

    Yes, this might be an issue. If copper is low, the S enantiomer form might be binding copper and giving you no benefit (it is inactive).

    >Your point about Membrane fluidity seems valid as my body seems to be holding on to toxins and not letting nutrients in.

    Yes, hence the suggestion to improve the unsaturated:saturated ratio of your dietary fat intake.

    >THis has been problem drs have been looking at bits and pieces and have not even concidered stress reduction only to have you take paxil and thats there conclusion as diagnosis for many people

    Sam-e, if you are not taking it, must be on your list. 200-400mg, twice per day, with water, 20 min before eating. A must for you HAN, your methylations reactions suck. The TMG will also help, delivering extra methyl groups and also affording you a little methionone.

    You are taking extra vitamin C, eh? 3-4 grams per day, to help maintain glutathione, which you are also deficient in...selenium methionate, HAN. Use it.

    What is test production like? If its low, we will talk about tweeking the pituitary and thyroid to help move it along towards normal.

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    Yes my dr said I was undermylethated, but I knew this long before hand. My homocystein levels just came back way out of range low so that would verify you saying I am undermethlyenated is an understatement. She did mentioned that methylation is what holds the cell together and with out cells would come unglued so to speak.


    Could the over dosing on folonic acid, and methycobalonin drop homocysteine m that low ?

    Could the altered thyroid cause the homocystein levels to drop and what are the risk factors for hypohomocystemia?

    I was using Samme due to thinning the bile so liver could clear out toxins and glutethioine production, then did switch to TMG at 1000 mgs TID.

    REason she had me doing the organic butter , whole organic eggs was because my arachonic acids where dangerously because of epa/dha where off the charts preventing the conversion from GLA to arachonic acid. She was working on stabilizing my membranes through Fatty acid imbalances. i stopped the cocconut oil because specific fatty acids from it was off the charts. I stopped the hemp oil awhile ago and actually just throw it out. It was over 6 weeks old.

    All fatty acid metabolism through metaboic testing where also low so could this be preventing the conversion into the needed prostaglandins and giving me fatty acid deficiency since they are not be utlized?

    MY liver detoxification test awhile back should low sulfate, low gluthiione, elevated lipid perioxidation.

    Would samme be a much better methylator then TMG or would I need both

    My serum b-12 and folic acids are off the charts could this be result of being undermethylated, but metabolic profile showed that b-12, folic acid levels were low even though serums where off the charts?

    Glutamine seems to be converting to glutamate verified by several urine tests so what is the signficance of this? I have no dectible gabba levels.

    Yes you are absolutely right about citric acid, MY citric acid in metabolic testing showed that is was barely even measuring and i was looking for a way to increase it but I did not know how,but if the magnesium citrate would work get kreb cycle moving then I will switch. My krebs cycle is at a stand still !! Are there any other sources of citric acid that could be an alternative source? i can not find citrate as a supplement any where.

    What about alkasetzer gold before bed to help reduce acidicity?
    My ph of urine and salvia are acid when waking up not during the day time


    On the metabolic testing it mentioined about AKG..What significance would that have?

    When you speak about metabolic testing I had urine labs ran from great plains and metametrix and both pretty much veryified same thing.
    Low citric acid, low gluthione, glycine pathway is weak. What other labs offer this. i am going to have nutritional anayalsis ran by spectracell to see what vitamins i am missing and then supplements accordingly instead of shot gunning high dosages.

    Does it matter what brand i use for magnesium citrate any one that you recommend?

    Testosrone is in the shitter 200 vs normal 900. using test creme now
    Could that put a damper on protein synthesis?
    Wouldn't balancing the thyroid and adrenals raise the testosterone ?
    dhea is mid normal but I have been supplementing with 50 mgs a day
    pregneolone was super low and i found correlation that low pregnelone is related to hypothyroidism GO FIGURE.

    I am waiting on the cortisol levels from salvia to verify them so that will give a better over all picture.

    I am taking super digestiver enyzme from NOW as well 2 with a meal, i also add a digestive gold in there as well just incase

    Yes increasing fiber slowly especially insoluable kind. Stool are mush !! not formed. Colon feels dehyrated and that I do not have the energy to push.

    Fiber intake was only 3 TBSP flax seeds and just from veggies (greens, squash,dandilion roots, broccolli, ect) so probably about 20 grams a day-25 MAX mostly soluable and not insoluable

    ascorbic acid serum levels are high normal but it looks like it is not getting i guess you say oxidized or metabolized as metabolic testing was showing,
    Doesn't too much C chelate copper as well. i been taking 3,000-4,000 mgs for a while years and still it is not metabolizing. My body gets diareahh on 1,000 mgs at a time even with ester -c. i upper vitamin C to 5,000 o time and it made me really tired and only thing I changed.



    Yes i am using selenium methylcysteine from jarrow, but my multivitamin i take from metagenics has it in asparate form instead. total is 400 mcgs a day

    Could one be insulin resistance even though blood profile does not refect it? such low hdl, elevated ldh, elevated LDL, ect.

    With armour thyroid my t-4 rises but t-3 remains the same and RT# elevates this I can not find a dr to explain to me or to treat it. I am waiting to get cortisol test back to see if cortisol levels are low and what was causing me to crash every time I would increase dosages of t-3. On 12.5 mcgs of t-3 my tongue was starting to turn from white to pink and then I upped the dosages slowly to 25 mcgs and I started to get insomnia and very tired during the day time so I know that adreanls where crashing this happened to me before. So I am waiting for test and to go back to dr which is very opened minded about things and is willing to try, but he really does not know and can not find a dr who does around here. From test results armour thyroid seems to be no working and increasing the RT3 which is not good.

    Supplements dr recommended based normal CBC and metabolic panel, RBC lipids
    1000 mgs b1,b2,b3, b5
    20000 mcgs bioton
    8000 mcgs folonic acid
    10000 mcgs of methylcobalin
    400 mgs 5htp
    600 mgs theanine
    1000 mgs tyrsoine
    6 TBSP of balanced EFAS
    8 whole organic eggs
    300 mgs pregnelone
    50 mgs DHEA
    inositol 2 grams
    PC 3 grams
    electrolye fomrula (mg,k,na) balanced alot of it

    Number one thing fucked up liver would conversion to coenzymatic forms of b complexes correct?

    She is working on
    Stabilizing cell membranes through proper fat compostioin 3:6 ratio and diet
    balance out the sodium /potassium gates
    lower renegades fats - this is done by balancing thyroid and B2 according to her testing results
    She preaches methylation but never suggested anything for it - BIG PROBLEM

    The report was very impressive and explains it in detail, but when it points out something she seems to skip over it especailly thyroid, adrenals.

    Here whole philsophy heal the cell membranes and body will heal itself, but untill that time other areas should be addressed . She has awesome articles her name is Dr Patricia kane, but drs rarely practice what they preach.

    Oaktown went to the best thyroid specialist and he wrote in his book about how to address the adrenals first, but neglected to even do that when he stuck him on armour with weaken adrenals.
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-23-2006 at 09:42 AM.

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    Wordy reply Four - The magic of methylation

    >She did mentioned that methylation is what holds the cell together and with out cells would come unglued so to speak.

    Ah yes, a reaction type that is common in the body and more recently understood to play a very important role in gene expression and gene maintenance, so it is important to gene transcription, ribosomal translation of transcripts and the protein products, which are modified post translationally, also undergo acetylation / methylation, as well as other modifications.
    Its safe to say..it very important.

    Now, glutathione metabolism is also predicated on feeds from more than one biosynthetic pathway in the liver. Two of these also donate methyl groups before handing over starting material for glutathione formation. So, there is a tight correlation between the functioning of these pathways. One of them isn't functioning well, chances are, the others aren't either. Hence, your problem with folate regulating homocysteine formation and its reversability for maintenance of methionone.

    You, HAN, are methionine deficient. You were probably low going into this debacle, and you tanked it with chemical manipulations..

    You can think of these supps as chemical rehab for the liver.

    >Could the over dosing on folonic acid, and methycobalonin drop homocysteine m that low ?

    No. Its a function of shitty absorption of these supplements from leaky gut, and probably the fact that you have pathway 'leaks' (you aren't recycling glutathione with ascorbate very well, and you may not be shuttling it through the body, if the liver is sucking most of it for itself (uses 70% anyway).

    Get my drift? Your body is really short-changed here..on reducing equivalents.

    High B6 could scew things up. 100 mg twice a day..time released formula is even better. Have to balance folate and methylcobalamin (there are more active forms of B12 you should look at, maybe consider sublingual format).

    Vitamin C for you, is fricking essential, for many reasons, but among them, the cysteine/methionone/folate pathways need it. You need it to regenerate GSH, and my guess is, one is sucking it away from the other other uses.

    >Could the altered thyroid cause the homocystein levels to drop and what are the risk factors for hypohomocystemia?

    Yes. .

    "Most people with a high homocysteine level don't get enough folate (also called folic acid), vitamin B6 or vitamin B12 in their diet. Replacing these vitamins helps return the homocysteine level to normal. Other possible causes of a high homocysteine level include low levels of thyroid hormone, kidney disease, psoriasis, or some medicines."

    >I was using Samme due to thinning the bile so liver could clear out toxins and glutethioine production, then did switch to TMG at 1000 mgs TID.

    No, you screwed up again. You can reduce somewhat the need for expensive sam-e by supplementing with TMG, but sorry, you can't supplant its use with it. Not a good idea, you need both. For you, 2-4 months minimum 400mg, twice a day, PLUS the TMG, in small doses. Moderation here, we don't want too many methylating equivalents, just enough...an excess has issues as well.

    >REason she had me doing the organic butter , whole organic eggs was because my arachonic acids where dangerously because of epa/dha where off the charts preventing the conversion from GLA to arachonic acid. She was working on stabilizing my membranes through Fatty acid imbalances. i stopped the cocconut oil because specific fatty acids from it was off the charts. I stopped the hemp oil awhile ago and actually just throw it out. It was over 6 weeks old.

    *shrug* You got a problem that you doctor doesn't quite understand.

    The inhibition of AA and inositol by dopamine. It down regulated adrenal function.

    Hello??! Yeah, you're not making much GABA, and your dopamine is a little problematic in your brain, your liver and yeah, thyroid and adrenals.

    So what we want is to goose up GABA and inositol.

    To do that, you take inositol, a little glucuronic acid lactone and a little IP6, not much. 10:2:2 ratio. You take this couple times day, in water. Say 2 tsp worth at a time.

    You take taurine, plus magneisum citrate plus GABA (1//4 tsp each). Now, your doctor would argue that GABA won't go up in brain due to BBB (blood brain barrier), but here HAN, we're treating the HPA thru the anterior pituitary (picking up TSH and kickstarting your thyroid) and hypothalamus, and also hitting the D2 in adrenals.

    See? Little molecular magic. Now, you gotta have that glutathione up and going, of thyroid production of receptors is gonna be shitty. Need zinc need selenium to do the job. Keep with your zinc, no more than 100mgs, spread out over 3 doses. Find and use the selenium methionate.

    Now, cAMP is also problematic here. Depending on how you react, we may use a little forskolin (95%, do not buy the 20%, please), in olive oil, 25 mg doses once or twice a day by oral syringe (to measure accurately)...but we only use that as a last resort to push the pituitary and adrenals into action. And we don't to endlessly push cAMP, that backfires in kidney tubules (promotes growth in basement tissues).

    Now glucose metabolism also sucks. You're going to have to use the citrrate as an TCA intermediate.

    Get the metabolic assay done, like I said, we have no fricking idea where TCA cycle is being hindered.

    Taurine will help two issues: first is low oxygen, high CO2, from improper breathing (stress related, not iron). Second is, it helps with hyperosmotic issues in cells, because you're not regulating water balance right.

    >All fatty acid metabolism through metaboic testing where also low so could this be preventing the conversion into the needed prostaglandins and giving me fatty acid deficiency since they are not be utlized?

    Nope, its a liver problem. The inositol will help for the reasons stated.

    >MY liver detoxification test awhile back should low sulfate, low gluthiione, elevated lipid perioxidation.

    No shit sherlock. Now, if you had omega-3 ups the yingyang, it might just be pushing lipid peroxidation, but I kinda doubt it. This is more about whole shortage of reducing equivalents.

    NAC, Vitamin C, normal dosing of omega 3, and Coenzyme Q10, Vitamin E mixed tocopherols.

    >My serum b-12 and folic acids are off the charts could this be result of being undermethylated, but metabolic profile showed that b-12, folic acid levels were low even though serums where off the charts?

    Yeah, and I mentioned this in OTBs thread. Its possible to have a backup in liver and have very low circulating B12 because of an inhibition in other pathways.

    This is in the biomed research lit, and it also seems to be part of an issue for some folks for appetite issues (low B12 driving leptin/ghrelin imbalance).

    >Glutamine seems to be converting to glutamate verified by several urine tests so what is the signficance of this? I have no dectible gabba levels.

    I'm responding to this reply of yours, as I read it first time, and so I am totally not surprised to see this no GABA production (although its always gratifying to read that you know that you're correct via lab analysis). Choline, kid. You gotta upregulate phosphoinositol cycle biosynthesis, and that will help bring up GABA, reduce your NMDA a bit, and help that leaky gut inflammation problem, also help correct the bile acid issue, and while we're at it, correct cholesterol and fat soluble vitamin issues, also blockading adrenals.

    > My krebs cycle is at a stand still !! Are there any other sources of citric acid that could be an alternative source? i can not find citrate as a supplement any where.

    Jesu, man, use your brain cells! 65K question(s) of the day: what is vinegar?? (we feed the TCA via acetate) What is lemon and orange juice? What is grapefruit??

    On the metabolic testing it mentioined about AKG..What significance would that have?

    Thats alpha ketoglutaric acid, and its interrconverted by a special biochemical cycle shunt from glutamine in brain.

    Glutamine in brain is a key source of energy. Nice if it works right. It can build up and be excitotoxic when GABA and taurine are tanked. As in your case, eh??

    And that, my friend, is the kicker behind your unhappy gut.

    >Low citric acid, low gluthione, glycine pathway is weak. What other labs offer this. i am going to have nutritional anayalsis ran by spectracell to see what vitamins i am missing and then supplements accordingly instead of shot gunning high dosages.

    I found a lab online, I think I might have mentioned it in OTBs thread. Otherwise I have to go look for it again.

    Glycine is helped by TMG (trimethylglycine).

    >Does it matter what brand i use for magnesium citrate any one that you recommend?

    Nope, its all reagent grade, I would use NOW, bulk 8 oz, just because its cheap and they are reliable, you can throw it in water and suck it down.

    >Testosrone is in the shitter 200 vs normal 900. using test creme now
    Could that put a damper on protein synthesis?

    Yeah, its blocking protein synthesis.

    You get leucine and BCAAs and you start using 'em, OK? Also HMB.
    Might as well get that protein synthesis going and slow down proteolysis (which you are using for energy), while the inositol mix starts up the TSH-LH armature in pituitary and thyroid to push your adrenals and testes into test production.

    capice? This is kinda nice how it fits together.

    Forskolin, later. Not now, not until we get liver looking better. eh?

    >Wouldn't balancing the thyroid and adrenals raise the testosterone ?
    dhea is mid normal but I have been supplementing with 50 mgs a day
    pregneolone was super low and i found correlation that low pregnelone is related to hypothyroidism GO FIGURE.

    Yeah, it helps to supply the right pathway. We're going MUCH higher on the ladder of chain of command, so at some point, your test and preg supplemention should be superflurous (we hope).

    >I am taking super digestiver enyzme from NOW as well 2 with a meal, i also add a digestive gold in there as well just incase

    What the hell is digestive gold?? The super enzyme is good enough. Don't add anything else yet, OK?

    >Yes increasing fiber slowly especially insoluable kind. Stool are mush !! not formed. Colon feels dehyrated and that I do not have the energy to push.

    Yeah, the fiber will help a ton, as weill slowing adding vegetables and more protein to your diet. Slow and easy, though, on fiber...you gut needs to get used to it.

    I think we might just start programming your gut microflora next. One thing at time.

    Nice to know that I seem to be calling your issues accurately...and I got some tricks up my sleeve, some shared here already, that should be very helpful to you and to a number of others who have similar problems.

    >Yes i am using selenium methylcysteine from jarrow, but my multivitamin i take from metagenics has it in asparate form instead. total is 400 mcgs a day

    Next time, get the methionine form instead. This is tricky..I think you should stay at 400, but you may need to bump it up. It bioconcentrates, and that makes me uneasy about recommending more. Sit tight on what you using, its what the Mayo Clinic recommends for adult males.

    >Could one be insulin resistance even though blood profile does not refect it? such low hdl, elevated ldh, elevated LDL, ect.

    Duh. Cholesterol metabolism is controlled by insulin. Too much, and you get your profile.

    T4 to T3 is an enzyme reaction.

    TMG will down regulate insulin surging. Side bonus, and the glucuronic pathway nudge (with the lactone) will help energy (TCA workaround) and help with insulin sensitivity as well.

    The enzyme expression is regulated by free fatty acids --> yours are high, and its blocking conversion of T4.

    Fix your liver, kid. Inositol plus the other supps we talked about, will bring it back online eventually. See? Liver doens't work right, key biological lipids produced in the liver get out of balance, and they run much of the big picture mechanics at the gene activating level, through nuclear receptors -throughout the body. I talk about this on other forums in quite a bit of detail that would go sailing over heads here. We'll use the practical ends of molecular biology and biochemisry to get your health back again.

    Sound like a plan, HAN?
    Last edited by Trouble; 05-23-2006 at 10:57 AM.

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    So basically problem is clogged up liver and dyfunctioinal HPA affecting the hormonal cascade as well as mitochondrion (krebs cycle)

    To summerize

    1. clear out the liver by increasing my methylation with samme, TMG. This should jump start gluthione production as well in the liver. The subligual form of methylcobalmin with folonic acids is going to activate the methionne synthase which is going to convert homocystein generated from the samme back into methionne. This should also help serotonin levels and melatonin as well and balance other neurotransmitters
    2. prevent glutemine from going to glutemate by replacing taurine, gabba. This should also help heal leaky gut if present by increasing glutemine supply
    3. With the inositol mixture we are going to help jumpstart the HPA (top of the ladder) as well as help methlyation
    4 by clearing the liver this will help to increase the conversion from t-4 to t-3 as well as to clear the used hormones out. HMMMM could the deactivated hormones of t-3 floating arounf be blocking the receptors for new t-3 to use?


    You are right again about homocysteine was being shutted into cysteine pathway vs being recycled back to methione metabolic testing should cysteine, serine, and taurine were in normal ranges and the supplements they were recommending your folic acid and b-12 not b-6. Again metabolic testing showed low methionne levels go figure LOL

    To verify my serum b-12,P5P,folic acid where 1000 times the highest range!! This worries me alot. No one could give me an explanation other then I found
    Small bacterial overgrowth for elevated folic acid, but a low b-12 would be present. i found elevated serum b-12 is indicated in increased heart disease as well. i also found that this is related to liver dyfunction (DUH) This concerns me about drs not following up to find reason why

    B-6 is fucking something up because my serum P5P is elvevated off the charts , but in metabolic testing it is deficient this is pretty much with all of my b vitamins. Zinc deficinecy could be behind this because it breaks helps remove the phosphate. i found this in nut gov't data base. I have been taking alot of zinc but its the ATP that helps carry it over intestinally,

    Would taking zinc gluconate tabs get around this at all since it sublingual form?

    Actually my blood profile is opposite i was making a statement that can one be insuline resistant not having that profile?

    My profile shows that of low insulin just the opposite that is what is puzzling
    I have low cholesterol, low LDH, low ldl, normal HDL, elevated bilirubin, high anion gap, low alkaline phosphotase, low WBC, low neutrophills, LOW homocysteine, elevated albumin if this helps

    REsults verified by metabolic test where
    elevated sarcosine, carnosine, enzymes related to zinc difficency for protein digestion, all low Essential amino acids,low gabba, glutemine, Gofigure


    Where do you get glucuronic acid lactone. i have some thing call calcium d-glutarate is that the same?

    Yes something is going on with my blood sugar i tested and ate a 50-75 grams of carbs from baked potatoes glucose went from 86 to175 in an hour and then after 3 hours was only 135? could this be from lack of insulin due to liver congestion

    Yes I have been using 2 TBSP of organic apple cider vinegar a day so that porbably helping in the krebs cycles if its getting in there in the first place.

    supplememet review
    samme 400 MGS BID (20 minutes before meals) with TMG 1000 mgs BID
    inositol mixture breaks down to how mgs? per 2-3 times a day roughly.
    gabba,magnesium, taurine = 500 mgs of each 2-3 times a day approximately
    BCAAS 2-3 times a day moderate dosages
    glutemine may be 5 -10 grams a day for now
    Back of the b-6 so homocysteine could be recylced back to methionne
    HMB
    not going to touch foreskins or long jack yet untill you suggest when
    i am currently taking probiotic omh -12 3 before bed time no more


    What about phosphodyl choline is it necessary or just the inostiol should be enough?

    When you mentioin bile acids is this also meaning bile production as well?

    Could zinc deficiency be also caused by lacking thyroid. i read few articles saying that zinc and other minerals may not rise untill 2-3 month lag time of balanced thyroid? are you familar with this

    Would you recommending going to an immunologist to see if there is possible a hidden infection affecting my immune system just to rule out the possbility of extra metabolic stress.

    i am going to conquer this !!
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-23-2006 at 12:41 PM.

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    what are your free fatty acids like - from liver lipid panel?

    High, low, what.

    Zinc gluconate plus ascorbate (losenges) I Herb.com

    glurcuronic acid lactone - Bulk Nutrition

    You had one hell of blood glucose spike. 138 afterwards..holy shit. You don't have insulin deficiency, but you might have a pancreas that isn't working well due to glutathione and methy groups being exceptionally low.

    Do you use whey protein drinks?

    mito function is fucked - you're not transporting factors in worth beans. Thats because TCA is so screwed up I guess. Try one tablespoon of vinegar before each meal, 10-12 minutes. Well after you use ALA and TMG.

    Kinda interesting you can walk around...energy metabolism is certainly not functioning correctly.

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    Low triglycerids, low cholesterol, low ldh, normal HDL, glucose 84, inuslin fasting 1.75 (0-20), high Mch high MCHC, low platelets, low WBC, RDW low, co2 normal, bilirubin elevated,

    i am not metabolising SHIT !! and all metabolic enzymes of protein, carbs and fats are at dead even same low level showing hypometabolism !!

    is there a way to post lab test here so you could view ?

    i was thinking of a glucose tolerace test good idea? i have metformin here but I want to check lactic acid levels first in serum before messing with any thing else.. actually I got so much going on do not need more variables added to the mix. its all just bandaid not the root cause.

    LDH isoenzyme test would be nice would not it LOL

    I AM FUCKED !!! no wonder not converting to t-3 and other factors
    ZRT LABS 24 hour cortisol results

    dhea 41 ranges 3-10
    morning 1.7 ( 3-8)
    12 pm .5 ( 2-4)
    4 pm .2 ( 1-2)
    bed time .2 (.5 - 1.5)

    No wonder my digestion and immune system is FUCKED !!! no cortisol

    Yes take whey protein isolates - stay away from casien based due to possible allergies.
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-23-2006 at 04:57 PM.

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    Blood lipids are low. Cholesterol synthesis is blocked.

    Bile acids - nonconjugated are high in liver (high bilirubin) --> liver dysfunction, Gilbert's Syndrome?? (benign, non life threatening)..watch out for liver cleansing herbs - stay far away. I helped someone here when I first joined who had this problem and when the solublized bile acid load his his brain, he had lasting damage for many months afterwards. I seem to recall a scratching of heads at my read of the situation - a very odd case.

    Low insulin. You don't release enough - hypoglycemic for another reason. Whoa. Doctor say anything about diabetes (adult onset) to you??

    G:I is 48 --> not likely to be insulin insensitive

    > high MCHC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_co..._concentration

    Cold agglutination OR excess iron

    Pretty undernourished for sure. Low platelet count. Low immune factors.
    So much is down...operating at bare minimum

    i am not metabolising SHIT !! and all metabolic enzymes of protein, carbs and fats are at dead even same low level showing hypometabolism !!

    The acetic acid and citric acid will help slow release of food. You will have to eat more meals,

    > there a way to post lab test here so you could view ?

    I don't provide that kind of service here, HAN.

    http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/lab_test.html

    > was thinking of a glucose tolerace test good idea? i have metformin here but I want to check lactic acid levels first in serum before messing with any thing else.. actually I got so much going on do not need more variables added to the mix. its all just bandaid not the root cause.

    No sir, you have the OPPOSITE problem, you may be borderline diabetic. Do not touch that Metformin.

    >LDH isoenzyme test would be nice would not it LOL

    Other liver enzymes would be nice as well.

    be very careful to avoid hypoglycemia using the supps and dietary approach advocated. You need to actually induce insulin production, to drive glucose metabolism and fatty acids synthesis and glycogen storage.

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    Hardasnails, dude, what has caused all these problems? Did the originate from anabolics somehow?
    Quote Originally Posted by kbm8795 View Post
    Oh, I think Americans understand that the one thing conservatives hate the most is the idea of spending American tax money on Americans. . .in America.


    Your tax money is safe. . .in Iraq.
    Total ownage.

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    Big D i had not been on steroids for 9 months prior to this bullshit. Before i stated dieting i had blood test and dr praised me he had not scene one this healthy in over 10 years. after contest My immune system was down from dieting and starving my self, overtraining and like a jackass i listen to people and went back to eating normal (higher sugar intake due to it was the holidays so I indulged. i had not had sugar in my system for almost over a year !! my diet was so strict cheat meal was chicken parm once every 2 weeks and when I shifted back to eatin "normal" it shocked my already immune sytem and this is a none fact. i bet if I check my blood sugar over a 6 month peroid now it would be high because of low insulin out put from many reasons. during week before getting sick they were spraying chemicals at work in the bathrooms and after 3 days I started noticing brain fog, spacey out and getting head aches. They eventually moved me. I have always been chemical sensitive. Then I ate about 100 pieces of sushi with weaken immune system got sick went to dr. Told him what i ate he told me bacterial infection do not happen to healthy people and then few days latter my stomach turned red and temperature started to drop like a rock starting shivering and turning ghost white. I had altered bowel movements that they labels to being in my head but in reality it was chain reaction of the intestinal infection altered digestion and then the hormonal cascade went from their


    "Bile acids - nonconjugated are high in liver (high bilirubin) --> liver dysfunction, Gilbert's Syndrome?? (benign, non life threatening)..watch out for liver cleansing herbs - stay far away. I helped someone here when I first joined who had this problem and when the solublized bile acid load his his brain, he had lasting damage for many months afterwards. I seem to recall a scratching of heads at my read of the situation - a very odd case."

    BINGO !!! I have been taken milk thisltel, dandiolion, artichoke mixture not knowin, explains elevated bilirubin and my yellow appearance that no one could see except the one dr and took a picture !! Thats been stopped!! Also you mentioined gilberts and SAMME is used to help that if I remember correctly? I had elevated iron at the time but now its normal again

    other liver enzyme Sgot, GGt, ALT all dead mid ranges
    albumin was elevated slightly, iron was high normal - BEt you from liver cleansing herbs, ferritin dropped from 135 to 85 in 4 months
    kidney functions all normal but at the low normal range due to protein deficiency

    would balancing thyroid/adrenals help regulate insulin levels ?
    i agree I have all opposite signs of insulin resistance. Could sore feet explain possible blood sugar problems. And insulin drive nutrients into the cell .mmmmm could there be a connection. Get this to correct an arachonic acid deficiency the treat ment of course is insulin how ironic?

    How severe will the insulin dyfunction affect nutrient uptake in the cell?
    All my urine test showed low to no creatine in them !! no it was not getting uptake into the cell and metabolized...hmmm lack of insulin again

    liver profile show low sulfate levels and is it correct you need sulfur and proteins to make insulin?

    inositol you recommended is noted to help diabetes as well so that is a good thing.

    Decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may not be clinically significant. However, decreased serum levels have been observed in hypothyroidism, scurvy, kwashiokor, NO SHIT !!

    Increased serum anion gap reflects the presence of unmeasured anions, as in uremia (phosphate, sulfate), diabetic ketoacidosis (theres possbile mention of diabetes)!!

    Carbs right now are all low glycemic.Dr wanted me to eat 1 potatoe a day have not been doing that instead of eating yams and lower glycemic veggies
    her diet she had me on was more like a ketogenic diet to suppress blood and insulin levels. So in current stage eating a balanced diet of protein , low glycemic carbs, fats is best to do?


    You can thank the drs for fucking me up for not taking care of a simple intestinal infection from contaminated food !! That was the start of all this bull shit. i know for a fact it was infection stomach was bright red 4 days later and hot to the touch but immune system was to run to down from dieting, chemical exposures at work, general, stress , and training to combat it..

    i got more samme so starting 400 mgs 2 times a day and staying there

    Doesn;t insulin raise cortisol levels or is it vice versa ?

    What other blood test would be appropiate
    Ha1bgc - glucose test over time
    methioine synthase - would indicat how fucked up my methylation is and methycobolin deficiency
    Ldh isoenzymes
    Free t3 and free t4
    CBC
    metabolic panel
    insulin free and fasting
    any others you can recommend i have good insurance but running out fast !!
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-23-2006 at 07:09 PM.

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    OK...

    We already talked about how we can use the inositol to bring pituitary, thyroid and adrenals back on line. That will help with test and also paradoxically with liver function and lipid metabolism. It should bring fatty acid metabolism, plus TCA back on line as well, but you need the intermediates too.

    S = taurine, cysteine, methionone, sam-e, we bring up methylation and glutathione, and that will help GABA, but you're taking some as well.

    Remember, fucked up GABA, means NMDA problems. You might want to try choline and also ALCAR, carnitine is another reducing equivalent you're not making, and it should help with the gastric emptying and pancreas (as will the taurine).

    You're going to start taking slower release carbs with your protein shakes, and you're use protein shakes to help mend your gut.

    Sounds backwards, trust me on this one. You need to be evaluated for diabetes, adult onset, insulin-requiring. This may be temporary, or not even a very big issue, if cortisol comes back up again, insulin may as well.

    I don't think you need a whole lot of tests. More patience and maybe giving my current set of recommendations a try.

    You're already headed in the right direction.

    Sure you had that gut infection, but HAN, it wasn't the core reason for whats happened, that was a secondary effect set up by conditions of diet and altered body morphology, which you went after the hard way for sure.

    Looking back, pointing fingers won't help. If you're still thinkng you have an infection issue, add cordyceps to your list and start taking it.

    Otherwise, I think we got most of the bases covered.

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    Your right we will never know what happened so no sense of thinking about. Now we just have to deal with task at hand and getting back to healthy liver, and endocrine system that is my goal and to get back to anabolic phase vs catabolic. i have all required supplements will order the glutaric acid and get the zinc lozengers. is there a multivitamin that you recommend that has most absorbable minerals/ vitamins? i am using metagenics right now all purpose with out iron.

    Shakes whey isolate good enough or should I miss whey with rice protein is better. How many shakes a day you recommend 2-3 and since they are broken down already absorption should be alot better then food correct.

    The Amino urine test was showing low peptidase due to zinc deficeincy. Appears aminos are being broken down but not peptides bonds are not going into free form Could this be from the leaky gut issue?

    What is your opinon of melatonin since my cortisol levels are below normal at night would it hinder anything at all ?

    ALcar - 500 mgs 2 times a day be a good support? I am eating alot more red meat as well 1 serving a day at least and turkey burger for trytophan

    What would cause a cAMP deficiency?

    how is diabetes is tested for other then blood test which my are all normal?

    Thats why i like your approach so much better you tend to address each layer of things instead of starting at the bottom of the water fall but rather starting at the top and working down.
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-23-2006 at 08:40 PM.

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    >multivitamin that you recommend that has most absorbable minerals/ vitamins?

    Pediatric liquid vitamins maybe, dosing will be an issue.

    >Shakes whey isolate good enough or should I mix whey with rice protein is better.

    Whey WPC with WPI, microfiltation plus cross flow, most of the general name brand, low lactose will work. Need to start feeding your gut microbes, add first barley bran, because you aren't going to tolerate much oatbran, so you start off pure barely, then titer in oats, until your pure oats, 1/4-1/2 cut, in 60 g of whey. Sip it over a half hour. Four times a day. Food first thing in the morning and last thing at night, two drinks supplemented with noormal protein, and a Pre and post WO whey shake, then eat, 1 hr later, regular meal. We gonna jump your calories up slow. You need cardio and what ever yoiu can do for regular weight resistance training.

    >Appears aminos are being broken down but not peptides bonds are not going into free form Could this be from the leaky gut issue?

    No, quit reading in that zinc def. Problem with your digestive enzymes lies elsewhere. The Super Enzyme mix will have endopeptidases in it, so don't sweat the protein breakdown..thats one of the reasons I'm breaking my normal rule on whey daily use with you.

    >What is your opinon of melatonin since my cortisol levels are below normal at night would it hinder anything at all ?

    Theanine and GABA, unless you aren't sleeping well, no melatonin, eh?

    >What would cause a cAMP deficiency?

    Lack of reducing equivalents, shitty ALA source, hindered androgen production. Crappy thyroid.

    >how is diabetes is tested for other then blood test which my are all normal?

    glucose test, with 15 min draws on insulin and glucose, they use the ratios to figure out if you're releasing or not on cue.

    >Thats why i like your approach so much better you tend to address each layer of things instead of starting at the bottom of the water fall but rather starting at the top and working down.

    I look for patterns. You give me decent feedback, and I can make some educated guesses on what going on, and refine with additional Q and A.

    I am not a substitute for a physican, I can give you some simple solutions to try, I think they should work. No rocket science, couple of clever tweeks.

    Need to get that insulin question addressed pronto.

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    Oh boy you are going to kill me. during the contest i was using ALA shitty brand like it was PEDS. i mean like 1-2 grams a day with out biotin and was taking a shitty multivitamin at same time.

    My appetite SUCKS because of low cortisol. and feels like food is not digested in shot into colon just sits in gut and does not move.

    Will oats irritate the intestines if there is any inflamation present? According to stool sample my Siga was fine that was 6 months ago

    i keep seeing floaters in my eyes (look like black dots moving in line of vision) is this from the liver clogging up ?

    making drs appointment tommorrow..Diabetes been floating around in my mind for longest time as well..runs on my uncles side.

    How much cardio per day or week , would this cause help to fire up mitochondrion ?

    Why do i get like a niacin flush reaction after gabba with out the redness?
    at 500 mgs my body starts to tingle and heat up a bit?

    What is your opinon on this multivitamin
    http://www.druckerlabs.com/intramax.html

    hypohomocysteinemia and diabetes
    http://www.eb2006-online.com/pdfs/00...6bdd8f67ecf536

    So for meals
    break fast and dinner or after post workout meal all solid food
    Then do 4 drinks with slow releasing carbs 1/4-1/2 cut barely bran then oat bran basically eat every 3 hours for 6 meals a day ( 2 solid 4 liquid /slow carbs) is the pre and post just whey or is both carbs/proteins.

    protein mix i have has 300 mgs calcium per 25 grams protein thats 2400 mgs of calcium a day. Plus my calcium levels are elevated as well Will this affect them and push them even higher?


    Should drinks have Essenetial fats in them?


    The whey protein I am using is Alltheway.

    CASE CLOSED !!It is clear that hormonal regulation plays a significant role in controlling the metabolism of homocysteine, as exemplified under diabetic conditions. In the absence of other complications, diabetes is characterized by hypohomocysteinemia that appears to be due, at least in part, to enhanced catabolism of homocysteine through the transsulfuration pathway. A primary regulatory focus in this respect is the increased expression and activation of CBS and its subsequent down-regulation by the action of insulin.
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-24-2006 at 10:00 AM.

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    >Oh boy you are going to kill me. during the contest i was using ALA shitty brand like it was PEDS. i mean like 1-2 grams a day with out biotin and was taking a shitty multivitamin at same time.

    That wasn't the sum cause of your present difficulties, but like I said, pointing fingers isn't going to help. Back a few frames in this thread, I gave you a source of KRALA, buy it and use it - carefully, to avoid going hypo.

    >My appetite SUCKS because of low cortisol. and feels like food is not digested in shot into colon just sits in gut and does not move.

    Yeah, you're neither releasing bile bile acids to aid in fat absorption nor are you producing sufficient insulin to drive glucose transport. Thats why you went hyperglycemic on glucose loading.

    I got a kid on another forum, just like you...and I'm thinking the same thing, adrenal and pancreatic issues. But he's got a twist, constant hunger. You both have CCK issues, but opposite of one another. Given your liver B vitamin issues, I would have expected polyphagia out of you as well, early morning. Not sure if there are psychological factors here or biochemical.

    >Will oats irritate the intestines if there is any inflamation present? According to stool sample my Siga was fine that was 6 months ago.

    There would be a tendency to be inflammed by a trigger, not sure if you have constant inflammation. Sometimes oats worsen IBS, sometimes makes it better. I would use it, in small doses, with your shake, and you might want to add a little olive oil (EVO), its been shown to help IBS when included in diet, and if it doesn't trigger problems (like you saturated fats would), then it should help your calorie intake and absorption as well.

    >keep seeing floaters in my eyes (look like black dots moving in line of vision) is this from the liver clogging up ?

    Lack of reducing equivalents (anti-oxidants) in the vitreous humor and maybe lens. I think you can purchase ALCAR drops for eyes and these are purported to help the condition.

    >How much cardio per day or week , would this cause help to fire up mitochondrion ?

    We want moderate walks, for stress control, regulating breathing, and starting up metabolism in all muscle fibers. We'll use the TCA intermediates to help fuel it, and maybe with the inositol, you'll get a return of thyroid and insulin function. Got a dog? If not, find one, and walk it.

    >Why do i get like a niacin flush reaction after gabba with out the redness?
    at 500 mgs my body starts to tingle and heat up a bit?

    Cause you're high sensitive to it, and your getting a stimulation effect from what could normally be suppressive. You need to take smaller doses, more frequently.

    >What is your opinon on this multivitamin

    No comment. Don't know it.

    Eat lots of small meals throughout the day...very small...every 2 hrs.

    >Then do 4 drinks with slow releasing carbs 1/4-1/2 cut barley bran then oat bran basically eat every 3 hours for 6 meals a day ( 2 solid 4 liquid /slow carbs)


    protein mix i have has 300 mgs calcium per 25 grams protein thats 2400 mgs of calcium a day. Plus my calcium levels are elevated as well Will this affect them and push them even higher?

    Yup, get a whey drink without the extra calcium. The magnesium will help improve calcium uptake, you've got a hypomagnesium issue (which may cause muscle spasms if you're not taking mag and taurine).


    >Should drinks have Essenetial fats in them?

    see my comments on olive oil, up top.


    >transsulfuration pathway

    Well, this is screwed up for sure, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the etiology here. Its more complex than that, given your history in bbing.

    Hope you found my feedback helpful.

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    Yes feed back is very informative and i understand about 90% of it.

    Now i made an appointment for glucose tolerance test for next week..Dr was a jack ass and giving me a hard time. I politely told him diabetes does run in my family and serum tests are worthless for some people. Just for a hoot I took blood sugar reading before and after each meal and averaged them during the time a wake. It came to 145 !!. Seems after 2-2,5 hours blood does not drop back to base line of even around a hundred How ever in the morning it is 86.

    You mentionsed about cck and i was wondering if this high fat diet these drs had me on could be increasing the somatostatin preventing the insulin and glucagon and possible gh release. I concur you that it is not insulin resistance because blood test are just opposite (insulin deficieny or some kind glucose intolerance). So something is suppressing my insulin levels or my pancrease is toasted (hope that is not the case).

    Could my thyroid out put be so low that it is now affecting insulin secretions?

    Also to bottom of my feet have been killing me for past year or so and drs do not ever common.

    Could Prolong hyperglycemia from excessve adrenalone release cause increased oxidative stress to the liver and also pancrease resulting in first insulin resistance which blood test 12 months ago indicating (low hdl, elevated ldl) and is now pancrease is just either a sleep or dyfunctional?


    Many GI complications of diabetes seem to be related to dysfunction of the neurons supplying the enteric nervous system. Just as the nerves in the feet may be affected in peripheral neuropathy, involvement of the intestinal nerves may lead to enteric neuropathy. This is a type of autonomic or "involuntary" neuropathy and may lead to abnormalities in intestinal motility, sensation, secretion, and absorption. Different nerve fibers can either stimulate or inhibit intestinal motility and function, and damage to these nerves can lead to a slowing or acceleration of intestinal function, giving rise to a variable symptom complex. This article will highlight the most common GI disorders seen in people with diabetes

    If cortisol levels rise will also insulin?
    The glucose tolerance test will show if there is insulin dyfunction
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-25-2006 at 11:34 AM.

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    Did you doctor mention the insulin suppression test?

    >You mentionsed about cck and i was wondering if this high fat diet these drs had me on could be increasing the somatostatin preventing the insulin and glucagon and possible gh release.

    See [url=http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/11/2535] this article. In the brain, apo-lipoprotein receptors activated by saturated fats are linked to enervation of somatostatin action in panreas, which controls both glucagon and insulin. The polymorphisms discussed indicated population variability in the effects of dietary fats and their role in regulating insulin sensitivity.

    Beyond that, the article suggests the resulting free fatty acids, as well as hyperglycemia play a role in other pathways; I've mentioned high level control at nuclear receptors.

    >Also to bottom of my feet have been killing me for past year or so and drs do not ever comment.

    Neuropathy usually goes the other way (loss of sensation in peripheral tissues); inflammation is a more likely explanation.

    >Could Prolong hyperglycemia from excessve adrenalone release cause increased oxidative stress to the liver and also pancrease resulting in first insulin resistance which blood test 12 months ago indicating (low hdl, elevated ldl) and is now pancrease is just either a sleep or dyfunctional?

    Sorta. The problem is more with screwed up liver biosynthetic pathways and their cross talk with other organs.

    >GI complications of diabetes seem to be related to dysfunction of the neurons supplying the enteric nervous system.

    We've already covered this angle.

    >If cortisol levels rise will also insulin?

    Maybe. Don't know. You would need to have insulin sensitivity assessed sequentially over a period of a year or two to analytically determine how well you are responding. You can use subjective measures to follow progress made in addressing inter-related metabolic issues.

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    Does elevated VLCFA help shed some light on things ?

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    Why don't you tell me, HAN?

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    Sensai

    A build up of VLCFA is indictative of weak peroxisomes function or proliferation. Perioxisomal proliferation is stimulated by toxic substances as well as thyroid and dhea, pyruvates, coenzymes riboflavin and manganese

    If there is no pyruvate or lactic in the krebs cycle this could cause a slight problem and was verified on metabolic testing

    Adrenal Hypoplasia Congenita cause VLCFA to build up and can not be broken down.

    Because the VLCFA cannot be broken down, they accumulate throughout the body in the plasma, especially in the brain and the adrenal glands. While it is unclear if the VLCFA cause the deterioration or are simply another symptom of the disease, the destruction of the myelin sheath surrounding the nerves leads to neurological problems, and the adrenal gland malfunction leads to Addison's Disease.

    Although VLCFA accumulation is ubiquitous, the nervous system, the adrenal cortex and the testis are specifically impaired. HMMM

    Adrenomyeloneuropathy is a rare X-linked inherited disorder of peroxisomes characterized by theaccumulation of very long chain fatty acids (VLCFA) in the central and peripheral nervous system, adrenalglands and testis leading to the dysfunction of these organs and systems

    When VLCFAs accumulate due to abnormal functioning of the peroxisomes, they are disruptive to the structure and stability of certain cells, especially those associated with the central nervous system and the myelin sheath, which is the fatty covering of nerve fibers. The peroxisomal disorders that include effects on the growth of the myelin sheath are considered to be part of a group of genetic disorders referred to as leukodystrophies.


    My impression is that due to the adrenal insuffiencey this was causing them to build up where they come from I can speculate endogenously from betaoxidation? The build up then causes shut down of adrenals and testosterone.

    Keeps mentioinig lorenzo's oil ? and also coenyme A synthase breaks the VLCFA down.
    This sums it up nicely - its from adrenal insuffiency
    http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ull/12/10/1145

    When you mentioned inflammation would that be refering to pancreatic or mylenation of nerves ?
    MY gut feeling is leaning towards insulin deficiency NOT resistance because
    Arachondonic acid was deficient in red blood cell and insulin raises it !!

    You mentioned about magnesium leaking, i found information that adrenal insufficiency cause magnesium to be excreted from the cell and causes a magnesium deficiency. This could be a huge factor in insulin production

    Would a fasting insulin serum of 1.25 (0-20) be a slight problem or possible flag for insulin defiiency?

    Did I do a good job on my first assignment
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-25-2006 at 07:28 PM.

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    Sensei to Student

    Grasshopper:

    From my post #8:

    "Now, cAMP is also problematic here. Depending on how you react, we may use a little forskolin (95%, do not buy the 20%, please), in olive oil, 25 mg doses once or twice a day by oral syringe (to measure accurately)...but we only use that as a last resort to push the pituitary and adrenals into action. And we don't to endlessly push cAMP, that backfires in kidney tubules (promotes growth in basement tissues)."

    cAMP is a result of PPAR-alpha stimulation

    point covered already.

    You do not have the congenital problem, but yes, you do have a problem with PPAR, more a problem with ETC in mito..both forms of energy production, in mito and peroxisomes, if fucked up.

    Yes, your low insulin reading is what gave me pause..we covered that a few frames back as well.

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    I ordered the Krala that you recommmended and tossed out that NOW ALA i was using. I read up and Rala should help glucose up take into the cell and help fire up the mitochondrion. I never knew that s isomer could shut ATP production down ...learn something new every day..

    HMMM since no glucose is getting used into the cell and this causing cell starvation and RT3 rise during staravation ...This could explain alot but I wish it was as simple as that LOL

    Yeah I read those three big poly words a few threads back and they were associated with hyperglycemia, except I have no appetite and that could be from adrenal insuffiency I suppose.

    I am deficeincy in LA an ALA essential fats by RBC lipid profile

    Is this crebile that lack of EFA can cause cAMP disruption?
    Alam et al. (1995) also presented evidence that cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) production can be impaired in EFA deficiency, which would manifest as decreased sensitivity to catecholamines, with subsequent reduced thermogenesis. Clandinin et al. (1992) similarly showed that linoleic acid increased the binding of insulin to adipose tissue cells (and thus improved their metabolic responses

    Do you think it be wise to build up r ALA first before using the ALCAR since the ALCAR could cause even more free radicals and possible further deplete antioxident reserves or using them together counter act that effect.

    waiting , willing and eager to learn

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    >I never knew that s isomer could shut ATP production down ...learn something new every day..

    Yes, its like it would self cancel, one entantiomer against the over. Same with CLA, one isomer is bad karma for insulin sensitivity, but the other seems to promote it.

    No, like the classic hardgainer, the problem is more complex.

    >I am deficeincy in LA an ALA essential fats by RBC lipid profile

    Yes, and you must have noticed that your low platet count also is like the diabetic blood component profile..that was also a clue.

    >Is this crebile that lack of EFA can cause cAMP disruption?

    Yes sir, althought there are more recent citations that support those earlier conclusions. EFAs are one of a handful of bioactive lipids at actually bind in the nucleus, to regulatory (nuclear) receptors. Couples, or suite of four or more, interact at these binding sites in a push pull fashion to control them...keep them in neutral. When one is missing, you have problems. Note that PUFAn-3 (omega 3s) also play a role in inflammation control, as do other antioxidants. You are low in almost all of them. Good thing respiration is shitty, eh?

    >Do you think it be wise to build up r ALA first before using the ALCAR since the ALCAR could cause even more free radicals and possible further deplete antioxident reserves or using them together counter act that effect.

    Yes, although I thought I mentioned that ALCAR itself is an important neuroprotective agent (antioxidant). It operates as a couple. You need to keep it in regeneration to keep it from being harmful - same with the others, thats why you use moderation in their use, never go overboard in dosing.

    Good reply.

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    SO having insulin deficeincy would cause fatty acids not to be transported into the cell and this would result in decrease in lipid profile, and well as a weaken immune system from lack of platlets, and white blood cell counts.

    I found correlation that diabetic cystic fibrosis people have altered lipid profiles as well as protein, carb, fat deficiencies as well.

    Here is something interesting I was think
    Since LA -gla-dgla- prostaglandin 1 or AA and insulin slows the conversion of LA to GLA then would a deficiency causes it to speed up resulting in a deficeincy LA and elevated DGLA which my RBC lipid profile does show?

    It appears that fats are getting in to the cell, but are getting converted at such a fast rate and because of insulin dyfunction the DGLA is never getting converted to AA. So in theory that high carbohyrate diets cause in crease inflammation is because increased insulin would cause greater arachondic acid and more PGE2.

    This is identical to my profile as mentioned above
    Fatty acid compositions of phospholipids of heart, liver, kidney, aorta, and serum from rats having streptozotocin-induced diabetes were determined and compared with those of nondiabetic controls. Linoleic and dihomo- -linolenic acids were increased whereas arachidonic acid was decreased in most tissues, suggesting an impairment of 5-desaturase activity. Acids derived from linolenic acid were increased in some diabetic tissues from diabetic animals although the linolenic content was normal, indicating less impairment in the desaturation of the 3 series of fatty acids. Diabetes suppressed all polyunsaturated acids in the whole animal, but the competition between 3 and 6 acids favored the excessive suppression of long-chain 6 acids and an increase in the proportion of 3 acids in lipids of vital tissues. These changes in fatty acid composition of the phospholipids may have significant effects on cellular functions and vasoregulatory control mechanisms in diabetes.

    now the picture is coming more clear and it was just hidden all along.

    I forgot to mention my hands and feet are numb when I wake up in the morning. And i get tingling sensations in my feet and hands once in awhile.

    Also to carnosine on amino acid profile was elevated
    Could this indicate that the need for it was increased due to glycination from the excessive glucose?

    Do not worry about too much adrenaline (ephinepherine) last neurotransmitter profile I did should I had barely any LOL

    Plus looking back on all my blood test for past 6 years I had low normal platelets, and whiteblood cell counts, low trigyclerides, low cholesterol (avg was 130) the WHOLE FUCKEN TIME, but drs never said a damn thing...

    Amazing that low testoserone, hypothyroid,low magnesium, zinc, chromium, and B-vitamins all run low in diabetes. All which I do have. i am not making a diagnosis thats for drs to due, but I think the evidence strongly supports it given unexplained weight loss, low homocysteine level, lipi profile, low thyroid, low testosterone, and specific mineral defieicny. and elevated blood sugar can convert into Acetal aldehyde (deriviative of benezene) which metabolic test shows i was elevated. Not to bring up old news but justin had the same lipid profile i had in the beginning low HDL, elevated LDL, elevated iron levels indictative of POSSIBLE insulin resistance...Shame he was never tested. I also found out that diabetes suffer alot of neurological problems as well manly depression, schizophrenia. Right now need to focus at task on hand

    Oh dr failed to tell me on liver detoxification challege with aspirin, caffine,
    that my plasma sulfur liver was the lowest he had scene but nothing was ever done about it. This was a year ago..Later did I find out that sulfur was needed to make insulin and gluthione. So in theory a prolong elevated blood sugar causing hyperinsulemia could posisible cause a gluthione deficienc due to the insulin was unsing up the sulfur stores?

    Considering hair analysis (if credible) i am a fast oxidizer and very insulin senstiive, but it did warn me about gluose intolerance and also male sexual dyfunction for future possible problems..

    Just for shits and giggles I took my blood sugar before breakfast was 92
    had breakfast 4 oz meat, 30 grams of carbs from a yam, and green veggies, about 10 grams fat ad then had found a product I had ingredients rALA, vandyl sulfate and other insulin mimicers. 2 hour later blood sugar was 103 vs 140 yesterday !!

    Should your blood sugar be back to baseline before eating your next meal if your pancrease is working properly?
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-26-2006 at 08:01 AM.

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    Speaking of blood and platlets...go read up on plasminogen activation and PAI-1, and follow that back to delta-9 desaturase.

    Thats your sticking point for fat storage. The conversion produces key unsaturation in long chain saturated fats, and some of the converted fats bind to and activate receptors to drive fat storage.

    Hardgainers have this issue and those with insulin insensitiity have the opposite effect...they store fats just a wee bit too easily.

    >I found correlation that diabetic cystic fibrosis people have altered lipid profiles as well as protein, carb, fat deficiencies as well.

    Yup. Altered long chain fatty acids - attached to phospholipid glycerol backbone to form PL membranes - make the interior of membranes different type of chemical environment, sometimes stiffer...and that changes the bendability...what we curvature (membranes are usually crenulated, crinkled, to get in as much surface area for reactions - most reactions occur in membrane environments) and also the lipophilicity. That lipid environment change alters protein structure-function, and also the ease of which fat soluble substrates swim along thru this tube like membrane environment.

    Kinda cool, and while its been known awhile (this fatty acid specificity for membrane composition in key tissues), I don't think most biomed folks think about *why* you get certain fatty acids in certain tissues.

    >Since LA -gla-dgla- prostaglandin 1 or AA and insulin slows the conversion of LA to GLA then would a deficiency causes it to speed up resulting in a deficeincy LA and elevated DGLA which my RBC lipid profile does show?

    In the absence of LA and EFAs, AA can be lysed from cells..thats inflammation, and also red blood cell lysis. Cells undergo apoptosis, cell death.

    Interesting. When I tried using DGLAs, I had an adverse reaction - not enough LA. Similar to you, insulin wasn't acting correctly. Good point.

    Me, I make too much AA, which is great when insulin and glucose is under control, but bad otherwise. Its why I can pack on muscle mass so easy.

    >It appears that fats are getting in to the cell, but are getting converted at such a fast rate and because of insulin dyfunction the DGLA is never getting converted to AA. So in theory that high carbohyrate diets cause in crease inflammation is because increased insulin would cause greater arachondic acid and more PGE2.

    You got that one nailed perfect. Taint no theory about it, I can verify it anecdotally, thats a fact.

    > the picture is coming more clear and it was just hidden all along.

    Yup. Thats the way it goes with patterns of cause and effect. Gotta tease em out. Turn em around, look at em from different angles. Puzzle piece, HAN. You're looking to fit them together to form the big picture.

    >I forgot to mention my hands and feet are numb when I wake up in the morning. And i get tingling sensations in my feet and hands once in awhile.

    Lack of neurotransmitters. We're getting to that thru the liver...taurine again, seems to help.

    >Also to carnosine on amino acid profile was elevated
    Could this indicate that the need for it was increased due to glycination from the excessive glucose?

    Glycation? Maybe. I think it has more to do with mito's inability to use carnosine.

    >Do not worry about too much adrenaline (ephinepherine) last neurotransmitter profile I did should I had barely any LOL

    Choline, boy. Your liver needs it bad. And once you're cranking it, you gotta control it, its excitatory. For that, you need the suppressors, taurine and GABA.

    > looking back on all my blood test for past 6 years I had low normal platelets, and whiteblood cell counts, low trigyclerides, low cholesterol (avg was 130) the WHOLE FUCKEN TIME, but drs never said a damn thing...

    HAN, you're an adult, and a smart one. Be wise as well. The reason you are in this fix is due to your own actions, not the doctors. They may have failed to act on the information, but you caused the problems thru chemical misadventure. Not gonna dwell on it, but when if you're finger pointing, nail all the responsible parties, eh?

    > I think the evidence strongly supports it given unexplained weight loss, low homocysteine level, lipi profile, low thyroid, low testosterone, and specific mineral defieicny. and elevated blood sugar can convert into acetaldehyde (deriviative of benezene) which metabolic test shows i was elevated. Not to bring up old news

    Yes indeed, it does begin to look like a picture of induced insulin deficiency.

    >but justin had the same lipid profile i had in the beginning low HDL, elevated LDL, elevated iron levels indictative of POSSIBLE insulin resistance...Shame he was never tested.

    Justin who? One of the members here??

    > I also found out that diabetes suffer alot of neurological problems as well manly depression, schizophrenia. Right now need to focus at task on hand

    Thats a problem with neurotransmitters in liver -if you block methionine and cysteine, you get low serotonin and problems with dopamine and in your case, ACh, acetylcholine.

    > dr failed to tell me on liver detoxification challege with aspirin, caffine,
    that my plasma sulfur liver was the lowest he had scene but nothing was ever done about it. This was a year ago..Later did I find out that sulfur was needed to make insulin and gluthione.

    Transulfuration pathways - we've talking about it all along.

    >So in theory a prolong elevated blood sugar causing hyperinsulemia could posisible cause a gluthione deficienc due to the insulin was unsing up the sulfur stores?

    Nah, not as much zippo production of antioxidants. You don't make vitamin C, remember? Thats needed for a whole slew of reactions. You don't make glutathione none too well, either (methionone capture in a recycle step isn't working), so any you make is tied up trying to battle ROS and balance acids.

    You got a pH problem, remember HAN?

    >Considering hair analysis (if credible) i am a fast oxidizer and very insulin senstiive, but it did warn me about gluose intolerance and also male sexual dyfunction for future possible problems..

    Don't use it unless you need conformation of other diagnostics.

    >Just for shits and giggles I took my blood sugar before breakfast was 92
    had breakfast 4 oz meat, 30 grams of carbs from a yam, and green veggies, about 10 grams fat ad then had found a product I had ingredients rALA, vandyl sulfate and other insulin mimicers. 2 hour later blood sugar was 103 vs 140 yesterday !!

    There ya go, you got insulin functioning with a little help.

    Watch the vanadyl it can make you hypo as well.

    So you fed yourself slow release carbs and shuttled it into cells. How did you feel after your meal?

    >Should your blood sugar be back to baseline before eating your next meal if your pancrease is working properly?

    Yes sir, if insulin is clearing it out, it should come back down, so should insulin, if its making it into cells (which you should be able to tell from blood glucose measurements 30, 1, 2 and 3 hours after eating (right up to your next meal).

    Now, get your protein metabolism going and lets start to slow down proteolysis. Start using BCAAs in water, between meals. No CEE yet, just magnesium and taurine. Need to get the pH / antioxidants resolved. You are taking vitamin C right??


    Another good post.

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    No fucking shit RBC lipids showed elevated palmtic and also steric was off the fucken charts high
    16:0 (palmitic) delta 9 desaturase> 16:1w7*** Palmitoleic delta 6 desaturase> 16:2w7** elongase
    18:0 (stearic) delta 9 desaturase> Oleic acid (18:1w9 ***) delta 6 desaturase> 18:2w9** elongase

    According to dietary interventions is to reduce the saturated fat and add niacin doe delta 9 saturase but it said that high steric acid causes high triglycerides, but I have just the oppossite. is it possbile that your body could endogenously make then from another source ? Could a coenzyme A deficeincy slow this enzyme down due to the periioxosmal profiltetation problem or better yet insulin deficeincy ?!!!

    FOUND IT INSULIN ACTIVATES THE DELTA 9 SATURASE AND CONVERTS STEARIC ACID TO OLEIC ACID !!

    ). In summary, 1) the activities of enterocyte microsomal membrane delta-5, delta-6 and delta-9-desaturases are independently influenced by dietary fatty acids or cholesterol, or by diabetes; 2) changes in dietary fatty acids, cholesterol and diabetes are associated with alterations in the fatty acyl constituents of brush border membrane phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine, but these fatty acyl changes are not explained on the basis of variations in the activities of the microsomal desaturases. Thus, the intestinal brush border membrane and the enterocyte microsomal desaturases are capable of adapting in response to changes in dietary lipids or diabetes, but the two alterations are not necessarily causally interrelated.




    i am taking vitamin C ester C due to preventing more acidicity at 500 mgs 5-6 times a day. I took 1000 mgs of vitamin C ester and blood sugar went through the roof. There is that insulin again needed to transport C in to the cell.

    Yes ph is fucked up urine and salvia or pure acid, but during day time they are fine. My problem is i have trouble reducing acids when I sleep. My blood test did show elevated anion gap HINT INT slight metabolic acidosis prehapes

    Since my insulin is not working efficently could the nutrient be backing up in the blood and enter the kreb cycle but at a reduced amount then 100%.

    Is lectithan a good source of choline or will it add more insult to injury.
    I can pretty much guarantee my acetylcholine is low due concidering on it is a parasympathetic neurotransmitters which I could definitely use. Since its the parasympathetic system that does seem to be out of balances and is responsible for releasing insulin, and gastric secretions, gut molity.

    Every since eating all those eggs lady me had me eating my tongue starting to turn white again. Now knowing that saturated fats cause inflammation and weaken immune system this explains why. So instead of shoveling 8 whole eggs a day to raise AA. It would have been more productive to correct the under lying deficeincy by insulin management. This could have been successful in possible helping issues at different levels. It not candida either i tested negative in candidisphere test, metabolic testing blood antibodies, stool sample as well..

    You mentioned about BCAAS between meals, like 1/2 tsp is good 2500 mgs per serving good?

    This explains blood sugar nicely
    by the way my lipid perioxidation was off the charts in liver function test.

    How could such disturbances in glucose/insulin metabolism lead to many chronic disorders associated with aging? In aging, similar to diabetes, the elevation in circulating glucose and other reducing sugars secondary to age-induced insulin resistance can react nonenzymatically with proteins and nucleic acids to form products that affect function and diminish tissue elasticity. Also, perturbations in glucose/insulin metabolism are associated with enhanced lipid peroxidation secondary to greater free radical formation. Free radicals of oxygen are important known causes of tissue damage and have been associated with many aspects of aging including inflammatory diseases, cataracts, diabetes, and cardiovascular diseases. Augmented free radical formation and lipid peroxidation are not uncommon in diabetes mellitus, commonly associated with "premature aging". Ingestion of sugars, fats, and sodium have been linked to decreased insulin sensitivity, while caloric restriction, exercise, ingestion of chromium, vanadium, soluble fibers, magnesium, and certain antioxidants are associated with greater insulin sensitivity. Thus, manipulation of diet by influencing the glucose/insulin system may favorably affect life span and reduce the incidence of chronic disorders associated with aging.
    Last edited by hardasnails1973; 05-26-2006 at 01:14 PM.

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