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Everything but the Kitchen Sink

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  1. #1
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    These blood results suck

    Ok after a 8 week bulk of 500 grams of protein a day which included 2.5 lbs of beef, 6 whole eggs and high doses of Test and Eq my blood test results are back.

    1st cholestrol.

    6 months ago total cholestrol was 131

    Today.
    Total Cholestrol 313
    Ldl 245
    HDl 35

    This was way out of range also.

    Red blood cells. Normal 4.20-5.80........Mine 6.2
    Hemoglobin...Normal 13.2-17.1.....mine 20.1
    Hematocrit...Normal ..38.5-50...mine 60.4


    All other test were normal. liver, bun, prostrate.

    Ok lets rock. What about the above ranges for RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit. Is this normal with high anabolic use?

    I'm not worried about the Cholestrol as I'm on a cut and will get that back down by the end of this month. The other results are what bothers me.

  2. #2
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    I think EQ has a natural affinity to greatly increase RBC's
    Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.


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    Hows your blood pressure? I imagine it would be elevated quite a bit

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pengers84
    Hows your blood pressure? I imagine it would be elevated quite a bit
    110 / 68 today....So perfect

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    Your BP is pretty amazing given everything else. RBC is always going to be high, thats what gear is good at. Anadrol and EQ probably better than anything else.

  6. #6
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    Mudge is correct, some (not all) steroid analogs will cause a rise in hemoglobin and hemocrit, as well as elevated cholesterol, high LDL subnormal HDL.

    However, we mustn't jump to conclusions. Had you not used any steroid, and you come into my office with those values, I would have told you that you are well on the way to both type II diabetes and severe cardiovascular disease.

    Hands down, the diet you consumed was foolish, as the rich sources of saturated fats you consumed without thought to their aggregate effect on liver, has induced one whale of a dysfunctional cascade. And those saturated fats, sir, they signal for insulin insensitivity and also for severe disruption of both vitamin A and vitamin D pathways.

    So you can chalk up the results to up to both diet and gear use. If you drank alcohol, it was injury added to insult for your liver.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble
    Mudge is correct, some (not all) steroid analogs will cause a rise in hemoglobin and hemocrit, as well as elevated cholesterol, high LDL subnormal HDL.

    However, we mustn't jump to conclusions. Had you not used any steroid, and you come into my office with those values, I would have told you that you are well on the way to both type II diabetes and severe cardiovascular disease.

    Hands down, the diet you consumed was foolish, as the rich sources of saturated fats you consumed without thought to their aggregate effect on liver, has induced one whale of a dysfunctional cascade. And those saturated fats, sir, they signal for insulin insensitivity and also for severe disruption of both vitamin A and vitamin D pathways.

    So you can chalk up the results to up to both diet and gear use. If you drank alcohol, it was injury added to insult for your liver.
    Girl I was hoping you a would respond. 5 months ago while on my last cycle I had a (shit can't remember what it's called) where they go up through an arterie and into the heart with a camera looking at the arteries and the heart. My Cardiologist said I had the heart of a 20 yr old. He was shocked as he knows I'm a smoker and do heavy gear.

    I want to thank You and Mudge and all that responded. Yes Trouble i figured that the 2.5 lbs of ground beef @ 10% fat plus they eggs was going to mess with my cholestrol. I'll point out to you that back in the 70's I ate over 3 doz eggs and over 4 lbs a beef a day and my cholestrol was good. Maybe my age has taken its toll.

    Shit I can't forget the beer I was drinking last month also. MAN ARE YOU HIDING IN MY HOUSE SOMEWHERE.

  8. #8
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    Mike Matarazzo was somewhere in the early to mid 30s when he was around 95% blockage in all major arteries. He was known for eating 5 pound of beef per day in the offseason, for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge
    Mike Matarazzo was somewhere in the early to mid 30s when he was around 95% blockage in all major arteries. He was known for eating 5 pound of beef per day in the offseason, for years.
    Well it's obvious if I plan to stay around this planet that I'm going to have to change my way of thinking when it comes to high protein via BEEF & EGGS.

  10. #10
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    Now why would they do an invasive angiogram if you had no blockage?

    What symptoms prompted the use of this diagnostic, months ago?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble
    Now why would they do an invasive angiogram if you had no blockage?

    What symptoms prompted the use of this diagnostic, months ago?
    Where do I start. On my dad's side. His Mother and Father died in the 70's of first heart attacks. My dad had three older brothers. The one just a yr older then him died at the age of 39 from 1st heart attack. His oldest brother died at the age of 49 from 1st heart attack. My dad died at the age of 64 1st heart attack. His brother who died at 39, his son my cousin died 2 yrs ago from 1st heart attack. He was 44.

    So you can see that Heart attacks run in the family and seem to be very deadly.

    So since I have had a cardiologist and seeing one since I turned 50, I kept him informed of the Steroid use. He didn't liike what one of the test showed and it wasn't clear whether I had a infarac (not sure of the spelling) or if my large rib cage was causing the above result. So the only way to find out was having the Cardiac Catheterization done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
    Well it's obvious if I plan to stay around this planet that I'm going to have to change my way of thinking when it comes to high protein via BEEF & EGGS.
    Protein: TOM, I'm a whippet compared with you so you can ignore this if you want to, but I thought that your (any) body could only absorb around 30mg of protein at a time and the rest would just get converted and stored as fat. That's a function/limitation of your internals not something that changes the bigger you get.

    Now most of us wouldn't want to take risks on protein intake so as not to waste any of our hard-earned efforts in the gym, so let's call it 40mg per meal times six meals and that still totals only 240mg protein per day. So not only are you getting all the fatty cals from the fat in the meat/eggs, you're also getting a whole load more converted to fat from excess protein cals you just can't absorb. I'd go for lean meats like chicken or turkey, white fish, and whey-based protein drinks to top up.

    Happy to stand corrected if anyone has any evidence to the contrary.

    BP: I remember you mentioning BP meds in a previous post. Mudge says he's amazed by your BP... is that controlled by meds or natural? It just appears to be out of line with the other info presented. Not a cricitism of the meds if they're doing such a god job!

    All the best,

    Flash

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    Quote Originally Posted by redflash
    Protein: TOM, I'm a whippet compared with you so you can ignore this if you want to, but I thought that your (any) body could only absorb around 30mg of protein at a time and the rest would just get converted and stored as fat. That's a function/limitation of your internals not something that changes the bigger you get.

    Now most of us wouldn't want to take risks on protein intake so as not to waste any of our hard-earned efforts in the gym, so let's call it 40mg per meal times six meals and that still totals only 240mg protein per day. So not only are you getting all the fatty cals from the fat in the meat/eggs, you're also getting a whole load more converted to fat from excess protein cals you just can't absorb. I'd go for lean meats like chicken or turkey, white fish, and whey-based protein drinks to top up.

    Happy to stand corrected if anyone has any evidence to the contrary.

    BP: I remember you mentioning BP meds in a previous post. Mudge says he's amazed by your BP... is that controlled by meds or natural? It just appears to be out of line with the other info presented. Not a cricitism of the meds if they're doing such a god job!

    All the best,

    Flash
    On the BP. My BP while on gear at it's highest was running 140's / mid 90's. Off gear 120 / high 70's. So about 4 months ago I decided while I'm cycling to take a med for the BP. I cycle for 8 weeks on and 3 weeks off. During those three weeks I wean myself off them slowly. Seem to work.

    As for the Protein, Trouble can best answer that question. She's a expert on this.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redflash
    Protein: TOM, I'm a whippet compared with you so you can ignore this if you want to, but I thought that your (any) body could only absorb around 30mg of protein at a time and the rest would just get converted and stored as fat. That's a function/limitation of your internals not something that changes the bigger you get.
    Does a 300 pound person absorb more nutrients and store them better as fat than someone who is 150 pounds eating the same quanity of calories? Most damn likely, which is why 150 pounders who eat tons dont gain weight easily at all yet stay ripped.

    Dont tell me Jay Cutler has 25% bodyfat because he takes in 700 grams of protein a day, because I sure dont see 25% bodyfat on him. So Kevin Levronne wasted all that time eating 5 pounds of fish a day, it just made him fat. Interesting that he didn't look fat on stage.

    A person who has grown does not have different nutritional requirements? So I can eat like a 5 year old boy and still get huge like Markus Ruhl?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
    Well it's obvious if I plan to stay around this planet that I'm going to have to change my way of thinking when it comes to high protein via BEEF & EGGS.
    Beef also = free radicals. If you BBQ a lot, supposedly the fats that drip onto the coals creates carcinogens, which is why BBQing is not supposed to be that frequent, if coal is used.

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    A person who has grown does not have different nutritional requirements? So I can eat like a 5 year old boy and still get huge like Markus Ruhl?[/QUOTE]

    Im not sure but I think what flash is suggesting is that bigger people should eat more meals not bigger ones.

    I remember watching an interview of a gold medal winning shot putter at the sydney olympics, who was like 350lbs who reported eating 12 meals a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pengers84
    A person who has grown does not have different nutritional requirements? So I can eat like a 5 year old boy and still get huge like Markus Ruhl?
    Im not sure but I think what flash is suggesting is that bigger people should eat more meals not bigger ones.

    I remember watching an interview of a gold medal winning shot putter at the sydney olympics, who was like 350lbs who reported eating 12 meals a day.[/quote]This is true of all

  18. #18
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    It's the charring of the meat itself in grilling that causes the formation of highly reactive compounds that are attributed to potentially causing cancer.

    On the absorption of protein:

    Its a rate effect. How fast you can digest and absorb protein versus its movement through the alimentary canal.

    You can reduce volume and feed more frequently, as TOM mentions;

    Or you can slow down gastric emptying and absorption. and thus gut efficiency well above typical;

    Or you can condition the gut to actively increase the rate of uptake (by a mechanism not well understood within the medical community but common to those of working in environmental microbiology).

    You can use all three to effectively quadruple or quintuple that 30-50g mythic protein load maximum. Thats 200+ grams per meal possible.

    (its) The recipe is molecular magic. My forte.
    Last edited by Trouble; 07-15-2006 at 04:14 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pengers84
    I remember watching an interview of a gold medal winning shot putter at the sydney olympics, who was like 350lbs who reported eating 12 meals a day.
    Ok so that brings us to 360 grams of protein, far less than most large bodybuilders take in - and less than I take in. Jay Cutler takes in as many as 16 meals a day, depending on what area of his diet cycle he is in. He is still taking in more than 30 grams of protein per meal.

    For at least one season in her competitive career, Cory Everson was eating 3 meals a day right up into contest time.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble
    It's the charring of the meat itself in grilling that causes the formation of highly reactive compounds that are attributed to potentially causing cancer.

    On the absorption of protein:

    Its a rate effect. How fast you can digest and absorb protein versus its movement through the alimentary canal.

    You can reduce volume and feed more frequently, as TOM mentions;

    Or you can slow down gastric emptying and absorption. and thus gut efficiency well above typical;

    Or you can condition the gut to actively increase the rate of uptake (by a mechanism not well understood within the medical community but common to those of working in environmental microbiology).

    You can use all three to effectively quadruple or quintuple that 30-50g mythic protein load maximum. Thats 200+ grams per meal possible.

    (its) The recipe is molecular magic. My forte.
    Figured you would be the better one to answer the protein question.

    Mudge does Jay actually eat that many meals sometimes. Damn that's eating all day and night long.

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    He sleeps in 3 shifts, 2 hours each. He gets up to eat, then goes back to sleep. This is pre-contest, yes he eats that many times.

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    Redflash- Just out of interest where did you get the 30g protein theory from?

    Mudge- I agree with you it does seem too low. Does Jay Cutler have a job? How the hell does he fit in 16 meals a day? If he slept 8hrs that would mean he would eat every hour. How many meals do you eat a day?

    Trouble- How do you slow down gastric emptying and absorption? How can you condition the gut to actively increase the rate of uptake (by a mechanism not well understood within the medical community but common to those of working in environmental microbiology)?

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    Sorry missed that last post mudge. Bloody hell that would suck sleeping for 2hrs at a time

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    [QUOTE=pengers84]Redflash- Just out of interest where did you get the 30g protein theory from? QUOTE]

    Goes back to twenty years ago... maybe one of those myths like tapering your cycles which has now been superseded by real experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge
    So I can eat like a 5 year old boy and still get huge like Markus Ruhl?
    No need to get silly Mudge. If Trouble is correct and we can do stuff to absorb more then I'm pleased to hear that, but I'm guessing that lots of folk are just eating without taking any special measures. TOM didn't mention he was doing anything special to slow down the passage of his beef and eggs or any other magic trick.

    I'm struggling with the math(s) on your Jay Cutler bodyfat point.

    I'm not saying that Kevin Lavronne wasted his time eating five pounds of fish a day - as a protein source that's one of the best. What would that give him - 500g of protein? Sure beats five pounds of beef!

    Of course a 250lb guy is going to need to eat many more calories than a 180lb guy just to maintain never mind to build, but cals don't equal protein.

    What I was saying was that if that 30g per meal figure was ever true then juat growing your biceps, quads etc wasn't going to make your gut work any different and I think that stands. Clearly, what is being questioned here is whether the 30g was ever valid.

    The other rule of thumb from twenty years ago was a gram of protein per day for every pound of bodyweight - 180 g per day for a 180lb guy, 250g for a 250pounder. Surely there must be someone else out there who remembers this stuff of old... and maybe can point me to the day it was debunked as a myth.

    TROUBLE: if a guy is going to eat say six times a day, how many grams of protein should he be aiming to consume per meal? What difference should there be between a 180lb guy and a 250lb one in this respect, if any?

    Flash

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    Quote Originally Posted by redflash
    No need to get silly Mudge. If Trouble is correct and we can do stuff to absorb more then I'm pleased to hear that, but I'm guessing that lots of folk are just eating without taking any special measures. TOM didn't mention he was doing anything special to slow down the passage of his beef and eggs or any other magic trick.Flash
    Bro this is something that i built up over time. I just didn't start eating 500 grams of protein. Now I have been in the 400-500 protein range for over 2 yrs. The only time I give myself a break is when I'm crusing for 7 days. Then I lower my protein intake to around 350 grams to give myself a break. I'm doing this right now

    But in the late 70's and early 80's I was eating 10,000 calories a day and I packed away the protein. This is how I went from bodyweight of 194 to 341 lbs. I did put 6" on the waist, but also added close to 18" on the chest and 8" on the arms.

  27. #27
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    The problem isn't the beef and eggs per se. Its how the chickens and cattle are fed and kept. If they are heavily confined indoors or in a shed or corral and allowed no free ranging movement (to condition muscle that regulates fat metabolism just as it does in humans) and are fed foods that subsititue poorly for omega-3 rich grass and seeds, then you find the same problems in these animals that you do in humans - cardiovascular disease and immune suppression, plus altered behavior - depression and aggression.

    Having collected samples for many slaughterhouses and seen these animals hearts and internal organs, as well as seen their physical condition before slaughter, I can tell you that they are far from being lean and healthy.

    If beef and eggs are your whole protein source, and its enriched in saturated fats used to induce production efficiency, then you will pay a steep price yourself in health if its your primary source of protein in diet.

    As far as delayed gastric emptying, fatty foods and whole food proteins must be broken down - they ARE naturally delayed, unless there is an unusual CNS trigger for gastric emptying.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pengers84
    Does Jay Cutler have a job? How the hell does he fit in 16 meals a day?
    Jay Cutler's job is being huge and ripped. I would go insane trying to sleep like that, if I wake up, like I did this morning at 3:30 - I could not go back to sleep until 3 hours later. So I went out for a walk and did some misc things.

    I try to get in 5 meals a day, 6 is where it starts getting extremely difficult. When I used to have a deskjob I could eat almost anytime I wanted, which was very easy. Now I travel constantly, so I have to eat my food cold, and when I actually have time to eat is mixed. I am very often driving, eating, and talking on a cell phone while taking notes at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble
    Having collected samples for many slaughterhouses and seen these animals hearts and internal organs, as well as seen their physical condition before slaughter, I can tell you that they are far from being lean and healthy.
    I heard that it started with veal producing cattle. It was found that found that if kept immobile, and slaughtered them while young, they produced a more pleasant veal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge
    Jay Cutler's job is being huge and ripped. I would go insane trying to sleep like that, if I wake up, like I did this morning at 3:30 - I could not go back to sleep until 3 hours later. So I went out for a walk and did some misc things.

    I try to get in 5 meals a day, 6 is where it starts getting extremely difficult. When I used to have a deskjob I could eat almost anytime I wanted, which was very easy. Now I travel constantly, so I have to eat my food cold, and when I actually have time to eat is mixed. I am very often driving, eating, and talking on a cell phone while taking notes at the same time.
    So your the ass that was eating, talking on the cell phone and cut me off and then sped away. Cool a folsom prison hanging is about to enter your world.

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