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What do you guys think of this??

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  1. #1
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    What do you guys think of this??

    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1289080

    The article is a little controversial IMO. It's not scientific or anything but it sounds good. Raises some questions...

    What do you guys think though?? Alwyn cosgrove is a firm beleiver in full body routines for size because of the study done on protein synthesis and it's elevation up to 48 hours post workout...This guy says body part splits and isolation is the way to go.

    I myself am not too terribly concerned with size anymore...I want to be a good size but strong as a fuckin ox now. So I'll stick to things I know. But as far as advising someone else of a program or trying to give someone direction...I've been stearing people away from body part splits myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by B40 View Post
    No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?
    yeah, that shit!!!

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PWGriffin View Post
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1289080

    The article is a little controversial IMO. It's not scientific or anything but it sounds good. Raises some questions...

    What do you guys think though?? Alwyn cosgrove is a firm beleiver in full body routines for size because of the study done on protein synthesis and it's elevation up to 48 hours post workout...This guy says body part splits and isolation is the way to go.

    I myself am not too terribly concerned with size anymore...I want to be a good size but strong as a fuckin ox now. So I'll stick to things I know. But as far as advising someone else of a program or trying to give someone direction...I've been stearing people away from body part splits myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B40 View Post
    No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?
    yeah, that shit!!!

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    it's too long to read i read the basic lines it has many good points but it could be much shorter than that

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    I read it, I like it.
    There really is no question, the answer is in the article itself.
    It depends on what you want.

  5. #5
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    I like this:

    the worst program in the world performed pedal to the metal will bring on more results than the best possible program done half-assed.

    IMO, this is the #1 reason some don't get results they want.



    Quote Originally Posted by article
    One thing I always ask myself at the end of every single workout is: "Was this the best workout of your life?" Obviously the answer isn't always "yes," but if the answer is "no" I always try to find the reason why and see what I can do to correct the situation next time I'm in there battling the iron.
    I swear, I do the exact same thing every day I leave the gym. I rate my workouts out of ten, and any day I give myself an 8 or less, I stress myself until I figure out why I did so poorly. Some days I can't figure out why I did poorly. One of those days I guess.

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    The body part splits and use of isolation for aesthetic training goes against what most recommend here.

    I'm curious to here what the educated/experienced guys have to say about that.

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    i don't like at least 80% of the body part splits .....for example this one is ok chest/back , shoulder/arms , legs

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    he says in the article that with body part splits you can work out 6 days a week hitting everything twice...that just seems like a lot.

    I too, would like to know where CP, Funk, and Dale stand on this....

    Where are they?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by B40 View Post
    No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?
    yeah, that shit!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PWGriffin View Post
    he says in the article that with body part splits you can work out 6 days a week hitting everything twice...that just seems like a lot.

    I too, would like to know where CP, Funk, and Dale stand on this....

    Where are they?!?
    their opinion is known...working out with weights 6 times x week is crap and overtaining and they're right..

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    he said 6x a week each muscle group twice might work for some. Some need more or less. He also went on to say 6x/2xmuscle group a week for 4 weeks, then cut the volume in half for the next 4 weeks.


    I'm more interested on what he says about isolation. And using them to build a body with aesthetics as the main interest. Using them to create an illusion to make certain body parts more noticable. But that might create a muscular imbalance i think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by assassin View Post
    their opinion is known...working out with weights 6 times x week is crap and overtaining and they're right..
    depends...

    if the person is a veteran, eats enough calories to sustain and gain weight and has built up a tolerance to training 6 days a week it can be done, especially with juice
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    I get what he's saying here. However, I want to contend with a few points:

    When he's referring to compound movements not being the most effective at creating an asthetic physique, you have to first consider what is asthetic to people. Take me for example. My arms are not very big at all. People are always raving about how they want a bigger chest and arms. Well, a lot of my clients also tell me that they want their physique to look just like mine. Their idea of an ideal physique is not some juiced up bodybuilder who has arms so big they cause his torso to look like a tent. Your recreational bodybuilder and your competitive bodybuilder are two different beasts.

    With that same point, he goes on to say that your body will use the strongest muscle groups to get the job done. While this may be true to some degree, there are tons of variations of compound movements that you can try. Okay, so a back squat builds your ass and hammies up, not your quads. Have you tried front squats? Walking lunges? Split squats? Catch my drift? I find that back squats tend to trash the entirety of my legs pretty good, split squats rape my quads, Bulgarian squats own my glutes, and deadlifts do it for my whole posterior chain.

    He goes on to say that training for function shouldn't apply to training for asthetics. If you are a competitive bodybuilder, then you do what you have to. You have to remain competitive in your sport, if you can call bodybuilder a sport. This shouldn't apply to your recreational bodybuilder though. You want to train for asthetics to a certain point, but you don't want to create any muscular imbalances and interfere with good motor patterns in order to look "more balanced," which is very subjective anyway. This goes against his talk about avoiding injury. How many big guys do you know with shoulder issues? I have talked to a lot. Why? Probably because of their internally rotated humeri and winged scapula.

    His talk about full body routines doesn't make sense. He says you would be performing X exercises and X number of sets, and it would take too long. There is absolutely no reason you can't organize a full body program to include a good amount of isolation work and not take too long. If you are performing a split program 3 days a week, there is absolutely no reason you couldn't reorganize that into a full body program with good results. For one, you don't have to isolate every body part. You should probably only be isolating your weak points, that is, the muscles that don't seem to develop to the same degree from purely compound exercises. He said it himself, either compound exercises will allow for pretty symmetrical development, or some muscles are going to pick up the slack for weaker muscles; these are the muscles that probably aren't going to need much isolation work. Also, even in a full body program, you don't have to isolate every muscle group every session. You could pick 3-4 compound exercises to cover the whole body, then another 3-4 isolation movements to hit another couple body parts and isolate the other body parts on different days. There are other ways to organize your program. Also, functional sport training does include isolation work. It's called activation work, and it's done to get weak links involved in more integrated movement patterns. The same could apply to training like a bodybuilder.

    With that said, training like a bodybuilder and training like an athlete are not exactly the same. Why they Hell would a wide receiver do a post-activation superset using the bench press and flies? Why the Hell would a bodybuilder do a 300 yard shuttle run? They wouldn't, but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities in the way they should train.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PWGriffin View Post
    he says in the article that with body part splits you can work out 6 days a week hitting everything twice...that just seems like a lot.

    I too, would like to know where CP, Funk, and Dale stand on this....

    Where are they?!?
    It does seem like a lot.


    Seriously, I agree with what CP said about organization of training. If you are going to do 12 sets for your chest (4 exercises x 3 sets each) does it matter if you do it all in one day or do it spread over 2 or three days along with other body parts?

    I still contend that body part splits end up throwing the body OUT of balance, not putting it IN balance. If you train a push, it just makes sense to train a pull, for the sake of joint integrity and muscular balance.

    How many people try and isolate just one thing and actually do it properly! Like, "I want big shoulders"......yea, that is great....so prioritize your shoulders, for a TRAINING CYCLE, not the entire year! It all comes back to proper organization of training and knowing when to do things and when to back of things. Most people don't understand that.

    Also, like I said in the trainign 101 stickie, if hypertrophy is your main concern then doing cycles of body part training mixed between cycles of upper/lower or total body work, will help you to get volume (accumulation) and then back off the volume and lift heavier (intensity) and lead you to better gains in the long run.

    it is more about knowing when to do one thing and when to do another thing, then it is just leaving something out. If that makes any sense??
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  14. #14
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    He has some good points:

    To create a good-looking physique, you must create an illusion: it's not about adding as much mass as possible, but about adding mass in the right places.

    and he does stress that, I want to make it clear that the big, basic, compound free-weight movements performed with heavy weights will always be the best overall mass-builders. Exercises like the squat, deadlift, bench press, military or push press, and bentover barbell row are the movements which will put more total beef on your frame. So when you're beginning your training adventure and simply need to add a ton of beef to your skinny body, these drills should constitute the backbone of your program.

    I also think this is a great point: With all compound movements, your body will always strive to use the muscle(s) or part(s) of a muscle that are best suited to do the job: your body isn't after balanced development but rather survival.

    If the logic applies to right and left arm dominance when using barbells instead of dumbells, it would make sense to apply it to muscle groups. This would also be where the idea of pre-fatiguing a muscle (ie chest before bench) comes from.
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  15. #15
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    ok, what you guys are saying about the differences between recreational and pro bodybuilders makes a lot of sense.

    I agree with Funk on bodypart splits being very unbalanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by B40 View Post
    No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?
    yeah, that shit!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-funk View Post
    It does seem like a lot.


    Seriously, I agree with what CP said about organization of training. If you are going to do 12 sets for your chest (4 exercises x 3 sets each) does it matter if you do it all in one day or do it spread over 2 or three days along with other body parts?
    I agree with this, although I find it easier to get form down by doing 4 sets for 2 days than doing, say, 8 sets in a day.

    Most of the stuff in the article is right on, I am not a big fan of BBing. I was more into that when I was younger, but recurrent bursitis and bad posture caused me to abandon it. If you are training for a BB show, then fine, but if not, even out your physique so you don;t end up in the chiro office.
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    Christian Thibaudeau has some good articles. If i remember correctly, he used to be big into olympic lifts before he transitioned into bodybuilding. Either way, i liked the article and agree with it for the most part. CP and PF mentioned muscular imbalance as an issue with most splits and i agree that should be one of the main issues to keep in mind while selecting exercises for a split.

    A lot of bodybuilding splits that i see all the time just never made sense to me...like chest one day, shoulders next, then back..then legs, then arms........

  18. #18
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    Yeah, most bodypart splits are put together poorly by lazy people who think they know what they are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by B40 View Post
    No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?
    yeah, that shit!!!

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  19. #19
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    For bodybuilding purposes, I think you should cycle bodypart splits and fullbody routines to gain the best results.

    I'm mainly talking about push/pull/legs by the way.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
    For bodybuilding purposes, I think you should cycle bodypart splits and fullbody routines to gain the best results.

    I'm mainly talking about push/pull/legs by the way.
    yeah that's what i do..

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