Dark Matter? Energy?

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    Dark Matter? Energy?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6156110.stm

    I've been googling around trying to understand this article, can someone dumb down and explain dark energy and dark matter? My last science teacher was trying to explain ti to me a few days ago and I'm not quite grasping I guess.

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    That's just a multi-colored Rolling Stones logo, what's to understand?

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    hahaha I didn't realize

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    Oh dark energy, that is easy, well, here is the thing, get this, as I always say

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieope View Post
    Oh dark energy, that is easy, well, here is the thing, get this, as I always say
    Exactly, too abstract for me. Fabric of space? WTF? Is it a sheet?

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    It's the stuff beyond the edge of infinity that dreams are made of...or more better known as the force stretching the canvas of our universe across its frame as the powers that be or not be paint what they will before our eyes and as our eyes and hands and feet and the stuff beneath your toes and the light illuminating the moon outside your window tonight and all those stars twinkling at the tip of your nose...
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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    Exactly, too abstract for me. Fabric of space? WTF? Is it a sheet?
    Do you know the atom? Someone get me a picture of the atom. Anyway do you know that space between electrons? That is supposed to be dark matter and it has dark energy. If you think about it the universe has more dark matter than real matter and now you enter quantum mechanics. That is what I understand about it but I am not sure.

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    Inside a box of shit, you have shit. But what else is in the box, what is between the shit? There is air.

    Inside the universe, there is also alot of shit. But what is between the shit? Dark matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieope View Post
    Do you know the atom? Someone get me a picture of the atom. Anyway do you know that space between electrons? That is supposed to be dark matter and it has dark energy. If you think about it the universe has more dark matter than real matter and now you enter quantum mechanics. That is what I understand about it but I am not sure.
    How is it different than nothing? How can it be energy or matter if it's nothing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    How is it different than nothing? How can it be energy or matter if it's nothing?
    Because without that nothing being something our something would become a lot of nothing and we would fall right through the bottom of the universe...
    Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
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    no sign of despair in their hair, nor their hearts
    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    How is it different than nothing? How can it be energy or matter if it's nothing?
    We cant perceive it with our senses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniclion View Post
    Because without that nothing being something our something would become a lot of nothing and we would fall right through the bottom of the universe...
    Is that a joke I didn't get? And hwo do we even know it's something if we can't perceive it?

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    Think of a fabric, like a sock then think of stench on that sock, then think of us as that stench and the sock as dark matternow reverse your perception of it where you see the stench and smell the fabric, but then take away your sense of smell...that's the fabric of the universe
    Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
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    and drag down the features of age,
    no folds or creases from unkempt wear
    eyes of tranquilty, crystalline-beads
    no sign of despair in their hair, nor their hearts
    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniclion View Post
    Think of a fabric, like a sock then think of stench on that sock, then think of us as that stench and the sock as dark matternow reverse your perception of it where you see the stench and smell the fabric, but then take away your sense of smell...that's the fabric of the universe
    hahah WHAT?!?!

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    You are def not a teacher manic

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    You are def not a teacher manic
    People usually tell me I'm a good teacher and my metaphors are good...I guess they are lost in the dark matter betwixt your ears....
    Coarse edged youth, the irish pendants string from their smiles
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    eyes of tranquilty, crystalline-beads
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    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    Is that a joke I didn't get? And hwo do we even know it's something if we can't perceive it?
    Do you want me to solve the mystery of life as well while we are doing this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniclion View Post
    People usually tell me I'm a good teacher and my metaphors are good...I guess they are lost in the dark matter betwixt your ears....
    I would understand your teachings perfectly if I were high, can you give me a more analytical, scientific approach?

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    I've read a little bit about cosmology, as I find it pretty interesting. Let's see if I can explain this without butchering the information too much...

    First some background. You have to understand how light works to fully grasp this, but basically, whatever you see is actually a look into the past. For items very close to you which are illuminated only small distances away, this amount of time is negligible. But for those celestial bodies out in space that are lightyears away, what you are seeing is actually what the thing looked like that many years ago. For example, it takes something like 8 minutes for light from the Sun to reach the Earth. So, when you look at the Sun, you are actually viewing what it looked like 8 minutes ago.

    This phenomenon is important when studying the universe. There is something called a supernova, which is what occurs when a star collapses on itself. When this happens, a massive amount of light and energy is released. This light travels for billions of lightyears. From this information, scientists can figure out the rate of expansion of the universe and the size as well. Don't ask me how exactly, but it's been done.

    Something wasn't right with the calculations though. For some reason, the amount of matter and energy required to continually propel the universe's expansion against the force of gravity is many times the amount of matter and energy in the universe (Yes, somehow this sum can be calculated as well). Most thought this was an anomaly until something else came along as proof. It's called cosmic background radiation.

    The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is the radiation that was released during an era of universal development called recombination, which is basically when the universe cooled down enough for atoms to begin forming. This radiation is the oldest light visible to scientists currently. Unfortunately, the CMB has dwindled to the point where the light is at microwave frequency. Everything emits microwaves, which is a very low energy light invisible to the naked eye, so it makes it very hard to read microwaves with all that "distortion" from everything else. Once scientists were able to "read the light," they further corroborated what they had calculated with the supernovas.

    Once this was proven, a name was given to the unaccounted for matter and energy in the universe that fits into their equations. That is, dark matter (Non-illuminated matter) and dark energy (The force opposing gravity to cause universal expansion).

    There is actually also something called exotic dark matter, but I don't really recall what that is.

    Make sense at all?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowPimp View Post
    I've read a little bit about cosmology, as I find it pretty interesting. Let's see if I can explain this without butchering the information too much...

    First some background. You have to understand how light works to fully grasp this, but basically, whatever you see is actually a look into the past. For items very close to you which are illuminated only small distances away, this amount of time is negligible. But for those celestial bodies out in space that are lightyears away, what you are seeing is actually what the thing looked like that many years ago. For example, it takes something like 8 minutes for light from the Sun to reach the Earth. So, when you look at the Sun, you are actually viewing what it looked like 8 minutes ago.

    This phenomenon is important when studying the universe. There is something called a supernova, which is what occurs when a star collapses on itself. When this happens, a massive amount of light and energy is released. This light travels for billions of lightyears. From this information, scientists can figure out the rate of expansion of the universe and the size as well. Don't ask me how exactly, but it's been done.

    Something wasn't right with the calculations though. For some reason, the amount of matter and energy required to continually propel the universe's expansion against the force of gravity is many times the amount of matter and energy in the universe (Yes, somehow this sum can be calculated as well). Most thought this was an anomaly until something else came along as proof. It's called cosmic background radiation.

    The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is the radiation that was released during an era of universal development called recombination, which is basically when the universe cooled down enough for atoms to begin forming. This radiation is the oldest light visible to scientists currently. Unfortunately, the CMB has dwindled to the point where the light is at microwave frequency. Everything emits microwaves, which is a very low energy light invisible to the naked eye, so it makes it very hard to read microwaves with all that "distortion" from everything else. Once scientists were able to "read the light," they further corroborated what they had calculated with the supernovas.

    Once this was proven, a name was given to the unaccounted for matter and energy in the universe that fits into their equations. That is, dark matter (Non-illuminated matter) and dark energy (The force opposing gravity to cause universal expansion).

    There is actually also something called exotic dark matter, but I don't really recall what that is.

    Make sense at all?
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    Yes it does, thanks alot cowpimp.

    So since the CMB is dwindling, does that mean the universes expansion will soon end, therefore there will be a limit to the universe?

    Ok, recap. Dark energy is all the energy from exploding stars, or supernovas, that shoots out in all directions and pushes againt the walls of the universe causing expansion? Wait, there are walls right?

    And dark matter is basically the name for CMB energy, not anything solid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    Yes it does, thanks alot cowpimp.

    So since the CMB is dwindling, does that mean the universes expansion will soon end, therefore there will be a limit to the universe?
    It's 14 billion year old radiation. It has dwindled for that reason. It has no effect on the expansion of the universe.


    Ok, recap. Dark energy is all the energy from exploding stars, or supernovas, that shoots out in all directions and pushes againt the walls of the universe causing expansion? Wait, there are walls right?

    And dark matter is basically the name for CMB energy, not anything solid?

    Not exactly. You have the part right about the anti-gravity force "pushing on the walls" of the universe. That is what dark energy is.

    Dark matter is non-illuminated matter. It isn't the CMB; the CMB was simply used as a tool to mathematically confirm the existence of dark matter and energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowPimp View Post
    It's 14 billion year old radiation. It has dwindled for that reason. It has no effect on the expansion of the universe.





    Not exactly. You have the part right about the anti-gravity force "pushing on the walls" of the universe. That is what dark energy is.

    Dark matter is non-illuminated matter. It isn't the CMB; the CMB was simply used as a tool to mathematically confirm the existence of dark matter and energy.
    I thought the CMB energy was the energy that was explaining the expansion of the universe since the regular energy alone wasn't enough? And if there are walls, there has to be a limit right? Like if we sent a rocket w/ infinite fuel at a billion miles an hour and lots of cameras, where would it end up? Or is the universe like a globe and the rocket would sjut return to us? And if dark matter isnt the CMB energy, jsut what is it? Non illuminated matter but is it something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    I thought the CMB energy was the energy that was explaining the expansion of the universe since the regular energy alone wasn't enough? And if there are walls, there has to be a limit right? Like if we sent a rocket w/ infinite fuel at a billion miles an hour and lots of cameras, where would it end up? Or is the universe like a globe and the rocket would sjut return to us? And if dark matter isnt the CMB energy, jsut what is it? Non illuminated matter but is it something?
    The CMB is light radiation which was used to calculate the rate of expansion of the universe.

    There is a limit, but I don't know about walls per se. I don't know what the edge of the universe looks like, but yes, it is finite.

    No one knows what dark matter is exactly. It's matter we can't see or identify currently, hence the name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowPimp View Post
    The CMB is light radiation which was used to calculate the rate of expansion of the universe.

    There is a limit, but I don't know about walls per se. I don't know what the edge of the universe looks like, but yes, it is finite.

    No one knows what dark matter is exactly. It's matter we can't see or identify currently, hence the name.
    Then how do we know it's something, and not just empty space, nothingness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    Then how do we know it's something, and not just empty space, nothingness.
    Math my friend, math. It's not possible that the universe is expanding at the current rate that it is without the existence of dark energy/matter.
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    That sounds like an excuse for an equation to work. Maybe it is just an anomaly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    That sounds like an excuse for an equation to work. Maybe it is just an anomaly?
    That's what they thought until the CMB came along. Einstein theorized dark matter and energy unknowingly a while ago when he included something called the cosmological constant in an equation to explain the expansion of the universe. He discarded it as a mistake. Later, after the data collected on supernovas and the CMB, it was revived. So, it had already been discarded, but they had to bring it back to explain the rate of expansion of the universe.
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    So there is a limit to the universe, correct? Another thing. If Dark matter and Dark energy along w/ regular stuff make up the universe, how can it rip? AKA black hole or what not. How can you make a hole in nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goandykid View Post
    So there is a limit to the universe, correct? Another thing. If Dark matter and Dark energy along w/ regular stuff make up the universe, how can it rip? AKA black hole or what not. How can you make a hole in nothing.
    Yes, there is a limit, though it is expanding constantly.

    A black hole isn't really a hole. It's a massive collapsed star (It has to be REALLY big before collapsing to make a black hole). The density and gravitational pull of this star is so great that not even light escapes its pull, hence the name.
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