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    Power Training

    So heres the question:

    Do I use one day and do power all by its lonesome or should I superset it with strength exercises?

    I have 3 resistance days a week. First one is a total push and the other is a total pull. I was going to make the third for power exercises only. I am going to shun away from olympic lifts for now. So a power day all by itself would look like this:

    A-1 Plyo Pushups-3x5
    A-2 Jump Squats-3x5

    B-1 Marching Box Jumps-3x5 (5 per leg)
    B-2 iso-extreme push up-3 sets with a isolation hold at the bottom for as long as possible.

    Lunges + Vertical leap-3x5

    Burpees-3x10

    *RI's will be around 45-60 seconds on each. Obviously the first 2 are supersets.

    Now heres my other option:
    Work it into my 3 day split. NASM's model is supersetting it with things like back squats. Meaning doing a set of back squats and supersetting it with Jump squats.

    So a routine could look like this:

    A-1 Bench-3x4-6
    A-2 Plyo Pushups-3x4-6

    B-1 Split Squats-3x4-6
    B-2 Jump squat-3x4-6

    Burpees-3x10

    Of course this is just an example of a total push. I would have to work on it a bit more, but my question at hand is should I use the power exercises as a superset? Or should I dedicate an entire day to power training?

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    Patrick
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    1) I still don't understand why you are supersetting the plyos?

    2) I don't like the complex super set of a strength exercise with a power exercise AND that is only one phase of their program design. The final phase is only power training.

    3) You should do some reactive type work through most of your phases of training (save for offseason/unloading phases when you need to decrease some stress).

    4) Depending on how the program is set up is going to really dictate how you use this stuff.
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    1. I was going to try and improve conditioning at the same time. But I suppose I am a bit off there.

    2. You always said you disagree with somethings with NASM, I suppose this is one.

    3. I do need to buy a quick foot ladder, but the money isnt exactly there right now. New baby coming you know?

    4. Well I dont exactly have anything set in stone yet, but I need to do some thinking about how exactly I need to set this up.

    So you never superset power exercises?

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    1. I was going to try and improve conditioning at the same time. But I suppose I am a bit off there.

    If you are going to condition then condition. If you are going to train for power, then train for power! Intensive power exercises....olympic lifts, squat jumps, depth jumps, alternating step up jumps, etc....should not be superseted since you want to display optimal power output and train your neurological system void of metabolic fatigue. Conditioning is a different story. Low level plyos like quick feet drills (or the ladder) can work with a conditioning component as they can be performed more at a sports specific work to rest interval.


    2. You always said you disagree with somethings with NASM, I suppose this is one.

    There are a few things I disagree with. In general I disagree with everyone on something. It is hard to find someone to agree with 100% on everything. The important thing to take away is the concept.....the oraganization. You will have your own ideas in your head as far as what you preceive to be true and what works for you and those you train.

    3. I do need to buy a quick foot ladder, but the money isnt exactly there right now. New baby coming you know?

    No need for a ladder. Quick feet drills can be great....front to back hops or side to side hops over a line on a basketball court or a football fied. Ice Skaters stick the landing, repetitive ice skaters, etc..

    4. Well I dont exactly have anything set in stone yet, but I need to do some thinking about how exactly I need to set this up.

    yup. have a plan. look at how many weeks you have until your season starts and plan backwards from where you want to be to where you are now. Then map it out and follow the map.

    So you never superset power exercises?

    answered that in question one
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    Again fuckin Powned.....Nicely answered and much appreciated.

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    Ok so the question I pose now is this:

    I come to you at the gym and say to you:

    "I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

    I think I am a rookie again!

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    Ok so the question I pose now is this:

    I come to you at the gym and say to you:

    "I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

    I think I am a rookie again!
    Ah! A "choice" question.........Of to eat some dinner I am. Will field this one (no pun intended) when I get back.

    Short answer...movement screen first and then program design....No program ever starts just focusing on power. You have to develop strucutral elements and then strength, in order to display power.

    if you aren't strong, you can't impart maximum velocity on an implement or yourself.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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    You don't need a ladder- just use what you have- rope and sticks- whatever.

    I got some cheap pylons (small kids size) for a dollar each at the dollors store.
    I use those for all kinds of stuff - running lines (when at the park), making an obstacle course, even when doing farmer walks (I put two at one end and two at the other end). Just get creative. I jump up onto cement blocks, rails, sand boxes, picnic tables - whatever. Never buy what you can make for free!
    No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-funk View Post
    Ah! A "choice" question.........Of to eat some dinner I am. Will field this one (no pun intended) when I get back.

    Short answer...movement screen first and then program design....No program ever starts just focusing on power. You have to develop strucutral elements and then strength, in order to display power.

    if you aren't strong, you can't impart maximum velocity on an implement or yourself.
    Ok that was speaking from a trainers perspective that doesnt know anything about the client. Now I know I am very strong as I have been training for 11 years and I know that at the very least at this point in my training that I am definitly strong. So with that said where do we go from there?

    Enjoy dinner P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakerboy View Post
    You don't need a ladder- just use what you have- rope and sticks- whatever.

    I got some cheap pylons (small kids size) for a dollar each at the dollors store.
    I use those for all kinds of stuff - running lines (when at the park), making an obstacle course, even when doing farmer walks (I put two at one end and two at the other end). Just get creative. I jump up onto cement blocks, rails, sand boxes, picnic tables - whatever. Never buy what you can make for free!
    I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!
    lawl
    No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

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    Exercises TTU Athletics Strength and Conditioning

    Not the greatest site in the world but the one that I was looking for I can't find.

    I assume because baseball involves a lot of twisting you could use some rotational work- P knows all about that high and low woodchops- or with a medicine ball (the site above shows with a medicine ball- but they are not doing it that great ). I think you need some basic power exercises like cleans and one arm snatches and front squats as well as some unilateral stuff like you are already doing like step- ups. I don't see any point doing too many new execises like regular snatches and cleans if you don't have much experience with them as you don't have much time to learn how to do them.
    But the P master will be able to help you, he's the pro...
    No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

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    P is the pro, no doubt there. I do tons of unilateral things anyways. I have done cleans, but my form sucks! I was going to try to do some twisting exercises for hitting. We will see what P comes up with. I will check out the site, thanks BB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!
    Hopefully for carrying and not for jumping on.

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    Ok so the question I pose now is this:

    I come to you at the gym and say to you:

    "I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

    I think I am a rookie again!
    Okay, even though we know you are strong, you still want to make sure you develop everything properly.

    There are three types of periodization that I really look at:

    linear
    undulating
    concurrent (like the westide template)

    I think each are good and each have their place depending on where you are at in the year in relation to your season. Linear is great for the offseason to unload the athlete (even though you said it was "blah", it has application) and it is also good if you are preparing for one single event. Also, even though you are moving in a linear fashion, you still want some power training in there. It is just that it will make up less of your weekly training volume.

    Undulating works well for inseason training as does concurrent (and maybe I am splitting hairs here with all the stupid semantics that get throw around naming these things. I think they kind of have a lot of similiar components). You just have to know how to manage the variables. I like the undulating because it leaves room for a recovery workout. If you don't have very many weeks to train (like yourself), then you are going to want to probably chose something that is more undulating or concurrent. However, they will both have a linear component to them, in that they will have an extensification or accumulation phase (ie hypertrophy type rep ranges...8-10) and an intensification or strength phase (ie somewhere in the 1-6 or 3-6 rep range).

    So, for example, 8 weeks of training may looks like

    weeks 1-3= accumulation
    week 4-6= intensification
    week 7-8= peaking
    inseason= concurrent or undulating program


    Make sense?
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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    Makes perfect sense. You explained that very well. So here is another question for ya P, do I do just power training? Or should I use strength training as well? Right now it is simple, I want to increase my athletic performance. Really being strong isnt to big of a deal to me. Hell in the athletic world being powerful trumps being strong anytime!

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    Makes perfect sense. You explained that very well. So here is another question for ya P, do I do just power training? Or should I use strength training as well? Right now it is simple, I want to increase my athletic performance. Really being strong isnt to big of a deal to me. Hell in the athletic world being powerful trumps being strong anytime!
    I thought I just answered that question?
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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    You did and I am retarted. I read it wrong. Sorry just got done with a couple games and am kinda beat, excuse me for being ignorant.

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    I decided I will use the undulating periodzation. Train 3 days a week. With of course the emphasis on power only for now.

    I am going to really try to get the form correct on hang cleans and snatches. I think they will help my in the long run. I do think they will do more for me than plyo pushups ever could!

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    P would you suggest doing the power exercises before strength exercises or after?

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    I decided I will use the undulating periodzation. Train 3 days a week. With of course the emphasis on power only for now.

    I am going to really try to get the form correct on hang cleans and snatches. I think they will help my in the long run. I do think they will do more for me than plyo pushups ever could!
    You totally missed what I said.

    The emphasis need to shift. You have 8 weeks. You can't just simply emphasize power for 8 weeks. You end up missing other qualities.

    You need to take it in sections:

    3 weeks- emphasize metabolic work, with less power work. use the olympic lifts in complexes to raise work capacity and teach proper technique.

    3 weeks- emphasize strength, moderate amounts of power work.

    2 weeks- emphasize power, moderate amounts of strength
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    P would you suggest doing the power exercises before strength exercises or after?
    always. I wouldn't do it any other way. I see no benefit in fatiguing the nervous system and then trying to go back and use it again.
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    You know you could go back and delete some of my comments because I do sound like a tool. Sure does make a big difference whenever I actually read teh whole thing through. In my defense I am at work and I am trying to do 3 things at once. Sorry.

    Alright well let me see if I cant start to put something together here and go from there.

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    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double D View Post
    You know you could go back and delete some of my comments because I do sound like a tool. Sure does make a big difference whenever I actually read teh whole thing through. In my defense I am at work and I am trying to do 3 things at once. Sorry.

    Alright well let me see if I cant start to put something together here and go from there.
    Don't worry about it. If it is somethign that you have never done before, it is difficult to grasp.

    So, now you just need to figure out the variables to place in each section. make the training concurrent, in that you will have some power stuff each day and then the strength stuff.

    Undulating (like power one day, hypertophy, strength) might be your best option for in season. Right now, you have 8 weeks to really develop yourself....take that time and go with it.
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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    This is way past difficult for me in this case. It is definitly something I have never done and of course I do have to say the masses of america weightlifters have probably never done this at all. All most people know (me included) is going into the gym and lifting X amount of weights X amount of times for X amount of sets and X amount of rest. This will really take sometime. I got all night hopefully I can post something back soon. I want to use some BB snatches at the beginning of my workouts on the first few weeks to simply try and develop some form. It will be light weight. I need to take a look at the NASM power training section here tonight and see what it has to say about it in there. I havent made it there yet so its kinda why I am like duh...

    Alright be patient with me, I will get it sooner or later. I am going to do some writting now.

  26. #26
    Patrick
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    yea, light BB snatches are fine.

    the first thing you want to do is have a basic template to go off of. Then you just plug in exercises, sets, reps, rest interval and rep tempo and you are good to go.....like:

    warm up
    speed work
    core training
    power training
    strength training
    stretch

    Then from that, make the template more specific:

    warm up
    speed work- deceleration, lateral, linear
    core work- rotational on one day, strength on another, stability the next
    power work- olympic lifts or plyos
    strength work- specific exercise pairings
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    Let me try this again. I like the layout. Let me redo it.

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    Heres the routine I wrote up for the first 3 weeks (metabolic weeks):

    Workout A

    Foam Rolling
    Dynamic Stretch

    Quick Foot Ladder

    Trunk Twists (Rotational)

    Squat Jumps
    Hang Cleans (Remember light weight, focusing on form)

    DB Bench
    Split Squat
    Dips
    Lunges

    Static Stretch


    Workout B

    Foam Roll
    Dynamic Stretch

    Quick Foot ladder

    Cable Crunches (Strength)

    Iso-Extreme Pushups
    Snatches (again light weight to work on form)

    Pullups
    Romian Deads or SLDL
    Row Variant (Probably DB Rows)
    Good Mornings

    Static Stretch

    *Then on the third day I look to use some planks as a stabilization exercise.

    Its 3 days a week. For 3 weeks.

    For Strength:
    Week1-3x8-60 ri
    Week2-3x10-60 ri
    Week3-3x12-60 ri

    For the Power exercises:
    I think I will keep the sets and reps the same for the 3 weeks being at 3 sets of 5 reps. With about 60 seconds as ri's.

    Tempo for everything will be 2/0/2, except for things like power exercises, of course the emphasis on those are explosiveness.

    How does this look for the first 3 weeks? I am going to draw a quick foot ladder to the best of my abilities.
    Last edited by Double D; 03-25-2007 at 05:44 PM.

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    It is a huge mistake to think that you can't be powerful using slow weight training.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

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    You mean slower tempos?

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