Facebook    Twitter    YouTube    Instagram

PWO Shake Recommendations PLEASE. Want high carb, high protein, low sugar, low fat.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 42
  1. #1
    Back from the grave.
    ELITE MEMBER
    Big G's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cols,OH. It sucks.
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,317

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    1898823

    PWO Shake Recommendations PLEASE. Want high carb, high protein, low sugar, low fat.

    Taking CytoGainer at the moment. 580cal, 79carb(6g sugar), 54gprotein, 98%lactose free, 96% fat free(45cal fat). + Tastes Yummy!

    Alternatives?
    Used to.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb
    Now... Weak as a kitten, but fighting back.
    Age:38. Trained 11/06-12/09. Feet surgeries & hip problems:12/09-12/11. Fighting back:12/11+. New Training Journal and Food Log.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    18,558

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    66250743


    PP
    Oats or Oat bran
    Cultured Yougurt
    Skim Milk
    Berries.
    Milled Flax seeds.





  3. #3
    Back from the grave.
    ELITE MEMBER
    Big G's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cols,OH. It sucks.
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,317

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    1898823

    Quote Originally Posted by IainDaniel View Post

    TERRIBLE ADVICE!
    Oats or Oat bran - PROBLEM: Ingestion too slow. Want more rapid insulin spike.
    Cultured Yogurt/Skim Milk - PROBLEM: Low net protein utilization, high lactose (sugar) & slow protein digestibility. DOMS drastically reduced for me with CytoGainer (partially digested peptides, whey fractions [for IGF-1], BCAAs etc... v.fast acting!).
    Berries - PROBLEM: Simple carbs/sugar.
    Milled Flax seeds - PROBLEM: Flax seed oil increases estrogen. link
    Next!
    Used to.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb
    Now... Weak as a kitten, but fighting back.
    Age:38. Trained 11/06-12/09. Feet surgeries & hip problems:12/09-12/11. Fighting back:12/11+. New Training Journal and Food Log.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    18,558

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    66250743


    How is it terrible advice. That is a very ignorant statement.

    PP or protein Powder Concentrate or Isolate whatever you prefer.

    Oats will release an insulin spike. Do some reading on Oats PWO.

    Here is some reading on Skim Milk PWO

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh
    Gaahhhh... Milk is good PWO!!! Don't listen to the myths!!

    To re-post some other posts I have made:
    Quote:
    Actually milk is great PWO and it is due to not only an ability to rapidly increase insulin secretion, but also because of the unique combination of protein fractions (both caesin and whey).

    And yes, milk will actually increase insulin substantially - you have to remember that insulin release and glycaemic index are not always related.

    So, although it has a low GI (that is, it has a slow release of GLUCOSE into the blood - mainly because once the lactose is digested in the intestines, half of the carbohydrate content is galactose, and this needs to be processed to glucose in the liver before it is released into the blood) it actually has a very high Insulin index (II).

    Milk has a high II because of the unique combination of amino acids (especially the high content of BCAAs) and glucose/carbohydrates. For some reason (most of which is unknown) these things act synergistically. This is also one of the reasons why whey protein also causes an increase in insulin levels - because of the high content of BCAAs.

    But if you think about it logically, having milk reacti like this is, in terms of evolution, a very sensible thing to do.

    As an infant/baby, you want to grow - and what better to grow than a good dose of insulin combined with an adequate mix of carbohydrates and protein!

    So you have an 'instant' hit of energy and nutrient uptake (caused by the glucose component of the lactose when combined with the whey fraction of the milk protein which then act to cause a marked increase in insulin)... But then you do not want your meal to 'dissapear' from the blood too quickly (you want to provide a continuous stimulus for growth) therefore you add in a slower fraction of glucose (galactose) and a slower, anti-catabolic protein fraction (casein).

    Milk does not slow the digestion of whey by any great length and the time frame is hardly relavant to anyone who has ensured that they have had a good pre-workout meal.

    The milk contains different suspensions of protein. Casein is one. Whey is another. Just because the casein settles in the stomach doesn't mean the whey does as well - infact the vast majority of the whey fraction continues in the liquid fraction of the meal into the small intestine where it is absorbed without any delay.

    If you REALLY did not want to delay the absorption of the whey then you would have to take it on an completely empty stomach/intestines - which means you would have to not eat for about 8 to 12 hrs....

    There have also been HEAPS of threads on the topic... Do a search!... But here are a few of them:
    http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=36488 (Post Workout Whey)
    http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=47740 (Water or Milk?)


    Now.... I have been saying that milk is great for PWO for YEARS now... But if you do not believe me... Try to take a look at some of the latest research coming out about optimal PWO nutrition (S. Phillips, Tipton... etc etc)!!

    International whey conference This presentation by Dr Phillips states "Bottom Line
    SYNTHESIS: WHY = MIX > CAS
    BREAKDOWN: CAS = MIX > WHY
    OXIDATION: WHY > MIX > CAS
    BALANCE: MIX > WHY = CAS
    A MIXTURE OF WHEY AND CASEIN MAY PROVIDE AN OPTIMAL BLEND OF PROTEINS TO SUPPORT PROTEIN ACCRETION IN MUSCLE AS A RESULT OF RESISTANCE EXERCISE"

    From This t-nation article There is this info "—Research is underway to determine which mix of whey-casein: 100% whey, 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 or 100% casein best improves protein retention after 80% 1RM whole-body resistance exercise. So far (4 subjects), the casein seems to provide a bit higher BCAA and leucine-specific responses in the blood at the 60-minute mark. Watch for protein powder manufacturers to jump all over this research as they design their products next year...."

    There is also this article which just states that whey and casein both can help: Quote:
    Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.
    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.
    Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
    Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children and Department of Surgery, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX
    PURPOSE: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two different intact proteins after resistance exercise. METHODS: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups. Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein (CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. CONCLUSIONS: Acute ingestion of both whey protein and casein after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

    Anyway.... To your diet.
    Berries are far from a simple sugar.
    Milled Flaxseed are not flaxseed oil.

    I am trying to be nice based on your rude response.





  5. #5
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    18,558

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    66250743


    You want feedback in future don't be a dipshit about things.





  6. #6
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,972

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    5918064

    there is nothign wrong with oats post workout. it is a quality addition. per alan aragon, all of the studies done with glycogen replenishment were done on subjects who fasted, unless you are doing that, you dont need 60+ grams of simple carbs post workout.

    oats are fine.

    ideally i say a 50/50 split for carbs (slow fast post workout).

    check out replenish, or at least read the extended write up for it.
    aftershock recovery is also a good product.

  7. #7
    Back from the grave.
    ELITE MEMBER
    Big G's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cols,OH. It sucks.
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,317

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    1898823

    Ian... Chilll with the dipshit shit. I'm talking from personal experience here. Bodies are different (believe it or not!).

    .5 cup oats + 1oz sliced almonds + .5oz dried bing cherries + .5oz dried peaches w/.75cup skim milk & a protein shake = 600 cal 45%carb,35%protein & 20%fat. As a PWO snack it does nothing for me. DOMS kills me and it's an hour or more before I start feeling my blood sugar coming back to normal.

    CytoGainer is like getting hit with a stick, plus the relief from DOMS is out of this world. I can't express how different it is for me. I can do the same workout one week apart, with CytoGainer anfd then without it and one week I'm fine and the next i'm in agony for 3days.

    I must confess I didn't realize that the PP reference was for Protein Powder (I thought it was a typo - sorry! lol. brain-fart).

    Still... In my experience a proper meal doesn't do the job near as well as my CytoGainer shake.

    Have you read Nutrient Timing? If not, you should.
    Used to.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb
    Now... Weak as a kitten, but fighting back.
    Age:38. Trained 11/06-12/09. Feet surgeries & hip problems:12/09-12/11. Fighting back:12/11+. New Training Journal and Food Log.

  8. #8
    Señor Member
    MCx2's Avatar


    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    7,870

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    37022201

    Quote Originally Posted by Big G View Post
    CytoGainer is like getting hit with a stick, plus the relief from DOMS is out of this world. I can't express how different it is for me. I can do the same workout one week apart, with CytoGainer anfd then without it and one week I'm fine and the next i'm in agony for 3days.

    I must confess I didn't realize that the PP reference was for Protein Powder (I thought it was a typo - sorry! lol. brain-fart).

    Still... In my experience a proper meal doesn't do the job near as well as my CytoGainer shake.


    Why change then?

  9. #9
    Back from the grave.
    ELITE MEMBER
    Big G's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cols,OH. It sucks.
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,317

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    1898823

    Just wondered if there were some alternatives. Cytogainer is a bit sweet really. I only switched to it this week and the sweetness is kind-of wearing on me. I don't really like stuff too sweet. I know I said it Tastes Yummy above, and it really isn't bad, but I wouldn't mind trying something else.


    PS. IainDaniel - I did sound a bit dip-shit-ish in that post. Sorry about that. Chowing down on a bowl of oats in the changing room is a little impractical though, I think.
    Last edited by Big G; 06-30-2007 at 06:59 PM.
    Used to.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb
    Now... Weak as a kitten, but fighting back.
    Age:38. Trained 11/06-12/09. Feet surgeries & hip problems:12/09-12/11. Fighting back:12/11+. New Training Journal and Food Log.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Flakko's Avatar


    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    576

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    11

    If you want low fat or fat free you can just mix whey protein with skim milk. There's nothing wrong with casein post workout as long as you get enough whey. In other words you could use 1 scoop of whey (23 or so grams of protein) with 12 oz of skim milk, which would be like 10 grams of casein. You can always add more if your protein needs are higher.
    As for carbs you could use any berries like people just told you. Strawberries, cherries, etc... Any fruits low in fiber like bananas also. Specially if they are really ripe, they are almost pure glucose.

  11. #11
    Back from the grave.
    ELITE MEMBER
    Big G's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cols,OH. It sucks.
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,317

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    1898823

    Really ripe bananas... Ew!

    So is everyone here set on real food post workout? I find a shake so convenient. Fruit would probably get all bruised-up knocking around my gym bag. Oats aren't too practical either.

    I'd hoped, when I asked for PWO shake recommendations I'd get some PWO shake recommendations. Ah, well.
    Used to.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb
    Now... Weak as a kitten, but fighting back.
    Age:38. Trained 11/06-12/09. Feet surgeries & hip problems:12/09-12/11. Fighting back:12/11+. New Training Journal and Food Log.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    visionsect's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    70

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    10

    Hey all, I know this thread is a bit outdated, but I thought I might comment here. Big G...I think IainDaniel's response was a good suggestion. I believe what he was suggesting was to include the oats actually "inside" the shake, not having oats as a separate meal. I know post-workout, I take the oats, berries, whey protein, and the skim-milk, and mix them all together for a nice thick shake. Amazingly (for me), the oats were not really all that hard to get down the hatch

    However, if the Cytogainer is working well for you, hit it up man! If it is too sweet, maybe try diluting it by using more liquid (water).
    Keep it very real..haha

  13. #13
    Señor Member
    MCx2's Avatar


    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    7,870

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    37022201

    Quote Originally Posted by Big G View Post
    Really ripe bananas... Ew!

    So is everyone here set on real food post workout? I find a shake so convenient. Fruit would probably get all bruised-up knocking around my gym bag. Oats aren't too practical either.

    I'd hoped, when I asked for PWO shake recommendations I'd get some PWO shake recommendations. Ah, well.
    That should be telling you something if everyone is recommending real food.

    You got exactly what you asked for, you just don't like the answers.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER
    Jodi's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    22,982

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    162956643


    Wow, I'm glad I didn't see this thread when it came out. I would have gone apeshit on your ass

    Iain gave the BEST advice you can get regarding PWO and it would have been my recommendation as well.

    As far as flaxseed oil causing estrogen........that's such bullshit please have some facts to back it up and not some stupid health website.
    Last edited by Jodi; 07-12-2007 at 03:48 PM.





  15. #15
    Patrick
    ELITE MEMBER
    P-funk's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    AZ
    Age
    38
    Posts
    31,713

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    15139848

    what you do post workout is dependant on a variety of things......goals and the type of training output are two of them. So the whole carbs post workout, no carbs post workout, etc.....it all depends on what you are trying to do.





Similar Threads

  1. Whats a good high carb protein shake? or recipe?
    By elementz in forum Diet & Nutrition
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-29-2011, 09:45 PM
  2. Why Low-Carb Diets Must Be High-Fat, Not High-Protein
    By Prince in forum Diet & Nutrition
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-25-2010, 12:36 AM
  3. high fat/high protein/low carb diet?
    By Dynghetti in forum Diet & Nutrition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-23-2007, 08:29 PM
  4. high fat & protein vs. high protein & low carb
    By mandypumpkin in forum Diet & Nutrition
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-19-2002, 08:21 AM
  5. high fat & protein vs. high protein & low carb
    By mandypumpkin in forum Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-18-2002, 01:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Copyright© 2001-2017 IronMag® Bodybuilding Forums