How to properly cut? Am i doing everything alright?

[Alleyezonme]

Ok so ive been working out for a while now and i gained a little bit of weight
im aorund 6''2 - 209 lbs right now, i first started working out at 200lbs, i dropped to about 170, and just told myself ive been bulking, but its gotten a little out of hand becuase im sitting here at 209lbs, now i dont feel that look any fatter but im not sure what my bf% is, anyway i know this is mostly useless information so ill get to the point

- i eat pretty clean in the sense that no junk food what so ever or soda
- downfall was i was eating alot of fast food and mostly complex carbs i think like pizza, lasanga, then things like chicken,corn dogs, stuff like that just in a way i looked at it like eat stuff that atleast has protien in it, as oppose to chips or soda which contain nothing but sugar
- but regardless i stuck to my program, but id like to really cut down on my bf% now, i started running this past week on my off days, and im feeling really good about it

right now my program looks like this
3 day split - push/pull/legs , Supplements are Gold Standard 100% WHEY

Mon - Bench - basically as many sets as it takes me to hit 50 reps (usually i go like, 10, 10, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4
Military Press - 3 sets, usually goes like 10, 8, 6
Dips, but i dont have a dip stand so i just use the bench, and put like this ice chest away to hold my feet on, id like to hit my triceps better, its hard to figure out how to get into proper form for say skull crushers with a barbell on my bench, it doesnt really work out to well, also tricep kickbacks (i think there called) start to hurt my lats wen i start to go a little heavier, so usually i just stay with the dips
Then i do my core work, hit my mid/lower abs, obliques, ( i do planks,leg raises/reversecrunch,crunches)

Tues - Run 1mile - 1mile and half ( im going to work this up runnings already becomming comfortable for me) ( i usually incorpate some sprints into this as well)

Wednesday - Deadlifts - ( i increased the rep range this past week because i was figuring im trying to cut right now so it would be better to tone this way) 135x5, 185x5 (2x), 205x5 (2x), 225x5, and 245x3 (if im not to burnt out by here) before i would just do, 135x5,185x5,205x5,225x5,245x3,265x1 thats like my max

- Bicep DBELL curls - 30lbs x10, 35lbs x8
- Bicep Barbell Curls - 65lbs x10, 75lbs x6
- Barbell Rows - 95lbsx10, 105x10, 115x8
- Then Core work plank,legraises/reversecrunch,crunches

Thurs - Run 1mile - 1.5mile (incorporate sprints)

Friday - Calf raises 3 sets same pyramid concept
- Squats - 95lbsx10, 115x10, 135x10, 155x5,
The only thing with squats is everytime it takes me a couple
experiment reps so to say, to find my proper position, i should record myself because i try to keep good form but id like it to be evaluated
- Barbell Shrugs 3 sets
- Barbell lateral raises 3 sets? not sure if thats what there called
- Then like previous workout days before my same core work

Sat/sun - Run if i feel like it, usually i do just because i enjoy running,
i dont feel like im burning myself out, i mean after my weight days im completely exhausted but the next day, i kinda just enjoy the run, anyway any insight would be greatly appreciated, im working on cleaning up my diet now, as i have been this past week, thanks for any advice!!

[XFatMan]

You should really read the stickies in the forums. They pretty much answer all your questions. Start with http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/di...intenance.html. The info is very good and should get you going diet-wise. Then read up on the other topics, that is cardio and lifting.

Personally, I think your cardio program is too inconsistent and your lifting routine is perhaps without real goals. If your body fat is so high that you want or need to cut, why in the world would you do biceps curls? Who'd see the results – apart from Mr. XRay? Throw out all isolation exercises and get going with compound lifts. And no, higher rep ranges won't tone your muscles - but cardio and diet will. You can find some really cool workout routines here:
Bodybuilding.com - Mike Mahler - The Steve Reeves Solution For Size, Strength And Health!
Simplify Your Lifting Plan, Supersize Your Strength - Men's Health
Now, let me know what you think of this.

[Alleyezonme]

ok let me clarify some things:
I dont think my cardio would be inconsistent if i stuck with every other day, i dont think my body fat is to high, maybe around 18-20%
And to throw out bicep curls is a little off to me, i do ALOT of compound exercises, and bicep curls are just 1 small part of my workout routine
also, you can clearly see my bicep mass, but im not here to try and proove myself in that department since it is by no means anything significant to my over all goals, and yes i do have goals, id like to have a good amount of muscle mass, with a bf% of around 12-15%, so i would be pretty defined, personally i dont really agree with your post that my workout program is ineffective, maybe you can clarify a little bit more on what im doing so wrong other then the fact that you may see it as over training a bit

[Alleyezonme]

i understand that i need to take my diet more seriously, and the only reason why iwant to cut right now, is not because i look like fat, because im perfectly comfortable with my body right now, id just like more definition, as i always like to strive as near to perfection as i can get, ive been working out for around a 12 months now, sorry if im coming off a little bit rude, but i feel ive researched alot, and im just trying to clarify my research

[XFatMan]

When you say that you run only if you feel like it, then this sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Whether you refer to it just on weekends or not doesn’t matter. I’m a serious athlete, and anything less than 100% dedication is worthless to me. Please respect that.

And I hate to say this to you, but for a bodybuilder, 18 – 20% body fat is plain fat. Since we are on a bodybuilder forum, I suppose you want something in that direction, right?

Your lifting program looks pretty much like you want to build mass. You can do only one thing effectively at a time: build mass or cut. That’s why I find your program misses the goal.

Biceps curls have little effect unless you’re advanced. If you were advanced, you wouldn’t have asked the questions you did ask. Isolation exercises are a waste of time at this point, believe me.

And hey man, if you want to define your body then you are actually saying that you are plain FAT, FAT, and FAT. Only lowering your body fat can define your body. And you can only achieve this if you read up on diet and cardio.

Yes, I think you’re pretty rude. If you read up properly on the topics, you will see that everything I said has some reasoning. I’m not saying you should blindly buy what I say, what I am saying is, “hey, you asked for an opinion, so don’t get fucking rude when someone gives you one.” No one here gives advice for money; we all do it for free. It has taken me a lot of time to get where I am, and I’m willing to share my experience with you, so I guess you should respect that a little more, don’t you think?

[Alleyezonme]

ok first of all if you read my whole post, it said that i run on my off days, which are tues,thurs,+ usually the weekends, i never said weekends only or if i feel like it on the weekends, and i understand that 18-20% isnt a very low bf%, and yes i am building for mass, and i understand that you cant build mass and cut at the same time, but thats why i started incorporating running within my off days, look, im not going to drop all my weight training period and just go pure cardio just to lose some bf%'s i believe you can lose bf with cardio and weightlifting and proper diet, you might not make gains during this period but thats part of cutting, look i know like i said before i may be coming off rude, but i feel everyone should express thier opinions and feelings on matters, so people know exactly where your coming from

[Alleyezonme]

Oh, and im not trying to become a body builder, i'd just like to be pretty muscular and have a pretty good cardio endurance

And i know nobody gives advice for free, and im sure you know what your talking about, it just sounds a little repetitive to me since i really have read up on alot, i think what it comes down to is, do what works for you, it all comes down to the same concepts of things, look from what i've gathered, i need to read up on how to properly diet, i need to focus a little more on the cardio aspect, and i need to throw out the isolation exercises, which i think bicep curls might be the only one, which i dont even really see is a big problem since 90% of my workouts are compound exercises, and im sure you've come a far way but as have i, i apologize once again, and i respect you for what you have accomplished in your own life

[XFatMan]

I did read your entire post, and related to cardio, I just gave an example. So don’t try to put words in my mouth, please.

You were asking about cutting. You cannot bulk and cut at the same time, period. If you want to get muscular, then you need to cut in the first place to define your body. When you get to a decent body fat percentage, you can start bulking to add mass. Nobody here cares whether you want to become a bodybuilder or not – the principles are always the same. Those principles work like the Law of Gravity; you won’t suddenly find a stone floating around just because the Law of Gravity made an exception. But go ahead and waste your precious time doing it your way. In the long run, all smart guys who were innovative had to admit that they went terribly wrong. That’s the Law of Bodybuilding – and there are no exceptions, either.

I agree with your right of expression – as long as you don’t piss others off. So reconsider your wording because others might just ignore you just because they’re a little less patient than I am.

[Alleyezonme]

Ok since i feel your comin off a bit rude,
when did i ever say i was trying to bulk and cut at the same time,
ive been "bulking" for the past 3 months or so
And i have a question, you say onec you get to a low enough bf% the one your aiming for, you then start to bulk, so your saying you can properly bulk, without gaining any fat on your body? and keep your same bf%? and thats all related to diet?

and as for the bodybuilder thing, in your previous posts you were talking about wait wait let me quote it
"And I hate to say this to you, but for a bodybuilder, 18 – 20% body fat is plain fat. Since we are on a bodybuilder forum, I suppose you want something in that direction, right?"

I had to clarify this, then you basically say my statement to this is useless? hah thats funny. anyway were arguing over stupid lines that are coming across rude to eachother

And if others ignore me thats fine, thats part of being indepdent you dont rely on others, and maybe my age has a little to do with it, im 18 and i guess i can be stubborn on some things if i feel im correct in the matter, i do acknowledge that, but after re-reading my posts, i do feel they came off very rude if i was the person trying to respond to them, so sorry for that, those werent my intentions at all.

[Alleyezonme]

Hey xFatman, i read your articles you suggested, and they were a pretty interesting read, i was kind of being a hypocrit by not even giving them a chance, and reading them, when you had specific articles in mind for me, i apologize for actin the way i did, anyways thanks for all your input though. ive learned a couple new things

[XFatMan]

I hope you have learned that being less rude than you were is usually an advantage. You can be pretty independent without being rude. If you re-read your posts and my correspondent answers, than you will easily find out that all my answers without a single exception and my suggestions were on spot. You just messed up things and got a bit rude - I just answered in the same manner.

[Alleyezonme]

Heh, Sorry for all that and i understand how you reacted in the same manor, funny how when you look back at it all, you kind of think to yourself, i cant believe i acted like that, but yeah, hope you had a good christmas and another new year is starting, maybe ill make my new years resoultion to learn to express myself better in uninsulting ways, becuase i do have a problem with profanity, its just so hard to rid myself of! hah

[Biggly]

Nice to see peeps making an effort at mending fences

Xfatman, could you explain more regarding stripping lean and then bulking up? I've found it easier to add mass, both fat and muscle, then stripping the fat rather than trying to gain muscle without gaining any fat.

In your post you say "You cannot bulk and cut at the same time" and this is true but how do you, personally, go about bulking up without gaining fat?

Obviously you need to keep a close eye on your diet and trust me, that's something I'm good at, but I'm curious on your take on this?


B.

[pengers84]

My advice:

- Check out the 'designing split routines' sticky and create a more balanced weight training routine.

- Do cardio for 30 mins at least four times a week, either on weight training days or off days.

- Mix up your cardio, ie intervals, steady pace, classes, swimming, running, cycling, rollerblading etc etc.

- Don't worry too much about diet. At your age as long as you train hard and eat ok your goals should be easily achieved.

[XFatMan]

I never said that you can bulk without gaining fat because that’s simply impossible. What I did say is that you can either cut or bulk but you can’t do both at the same time. When you cut, you lose body fat and inevitably, some lean mass. When you bulk, you gain lean mass and inevitably, some body fat.

To me, bulking makes sense only if you are at a decent body fat percentage. Anything over 15% is plain fat in my opinion, so why would one bulk? Take myself for instance. I started at 42% body fat 18 months ago and have been cutting ever since. Right now, I’m at around 22% body fat. Compared to 18 months ago, this is acceptable, I guess. However, I won’t even think of bulking until I hit a decent body fat percentage – something around 12%.

I have always made progress with my diet. And it’s so simple that most would laugh at this thing being called a diet. I count my calorie intake pretty accurately and just take care that I spend more calories than I eat and drink. I’m not yet at the point where I would worry about macronutrients and all that stuff.

I have started a journal to help me speed up things a little. All I know will be applied there. I do hope to get some feedback from guys like you. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...-body-fat.html

[Alleyezonme]

i have a question for you fat man, how much were you weighing at 42% bf and how much are you weighing now at 22%, i just want to get a idea of how much weight you had to drop to lower your bf% that much, see this is the only thing i kinda trip off a little
i fear that if i cut out all fats from my diet or very little to no fat, and do cardio say every day of the week, well yeah im going to lose weight very fast like that prolly drop alot of bf%'s in the next month or 2, but i feel like id loose all my muscle mass, but then thats kind of a obvious question since id be doing cardio every day of the week, but what if i said everyday of the week and continued to lift, would i lose a majority of my muscle mass or would i keep my strength? i guess i would rather keep my strength and not so much care about my muscle mass, because i could gain it all back, but i dont want to lose my gains i guess is the concern.

[NordicNacho]

I never said that you can bulk without gaining fat because that’s simply impossible. What I did say is that you can either cut or bulk but you can’t do both at the same time. When you cut, you lose body fat and inevitably, some lean mass. When you bulk, you gain lean mass and inevitably, some body fat.

To me, bulking makes sense only if you are at a decent body fat percentage. Anything over 15% is plain fat in my opinion, so why would one bulk? Take myself for instance. I started at 42% body fat 18 months ago and have been cutting ever since. Right now, I’m at around 22% body fat. Compared to 18 months ago, this is acceptable, I guess. However, I won’t even think of bulking until I hit a decent body fat percentage – something around 12%.

I have always made progress with my diet. And it’s so simple that most would laugh at this thing being called a diet. I count my calorie intake pretty accurately and just take care that I spend more calories than I eat and drink. I’m not yet at the point where I would worry about macronutrients and all that stuff.

I have started a journal to help me speed up things a little. All I know will be applied there. I do hope to get some feedback from guys like you. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...-body-fat.html

Poliquin would dissagree with you and that man knows his shit except for a few things where i think he's just out there. He has changed the way I lift and fuel my body for the better.

T-Nation - Authors

[XFatMan]

i have a question for you fat man, how much were you weighing at 42% bf and how much are you weighing now at 22%, i just want to get a idea of how much weight you had to drop to lower your bf% that much, see this is the only thing i kinda trip off a little
i fear that if i cut out all fats from my diet or very little to no fat, and do cardio say every day of the week, well yeah im going to lose weight very fast like that prolly drop alot of bf%'s in the next month or 2, but i feel like id loose all my muscle mass, but then thats kind of a obvious question since id be doing cardio every day of the week, but what if i said everyday of the week and continued to lift, would i lose a majority of my muscle mass or would i keep my strength? i guess i would rather keep my strength and not so much care about my muscle mass, because i could gain it all back, but i dont want to lose my gains i guess is the concern.

Check out my signature, it's all there.

You should really read up on diets. Nobody ever said you should cut out fats. Actually, doing so would be very bad.

You should also read up on cardio. Perhaps it’s a good idea to start with 20 – 30 minutes on 2 – 3 days per week. Then adjust it according to your progress.

You won’t lose all your muscle mass – that’s impossible unless you’ve been dead for a while. However, you will lose some mass, that’s part of the game. You will usually lose some strength as well. Once you come to a decent body fat percentage, bulking should become easier and more controllable.

Speaking for myself, I hate the idea of losing mass, strength, and whatnot. But how am I ever going to look like a bodybuilder if I don’t cut to say 10% body fat? I don’t care about strength and size right now; I do care about fat loss for now.

[Alleyezonme]

Yeah i just read up on cardio and i started doing HIIT training, i did it today and boy was it killer i love it tho, it was a great cardio workout

[Biggly]

Alley', one thing I'd point out, don't try and lose weight too fast if you're heavily overweight.

Or you'll end up with saddlebags of loose skin. The only way to avoid that is to reduce weight slowly and steadily, give your skin time to adapt. Or surgery.

Aim at no more than about a pound a week - sure, you CAN rip off 10lb in a week but you don't wanna go there.

Techniques to dig out those last few stubborn pounds can be too much if we're talking those "last 50lbs" or so..


B.

[Alleyezonme]

I understand what your saying because thats what happend to my brother, but im not in that position at all, i never got to to fat, but yeah im aiming to drop 2-3 pounds a week, im aiming to be 195-200 im 207 right now, i lost 2 pounds =P woohoo!, haha but yeah i understand what your saying completely