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  1. #1
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    Transition to Power Training






    I have two workouts left before the 9 weeks of Bill Starr's 5x5 program is over for me and I am going to start training to convert strength gains to power. I am looking for some good info on Plyometric, Ballistic, and Isometric training specifically for football performance. Does anyone have good links or are familliar with these forms of training and could give me information about it?
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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    Patrick
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    have you been doing any plyos at all right now?

    were you performing the power clean as part of your program (or did you swap it out for the bent over row)?

    How far out from training camp are you? If you are still far out, then you don't want to start doing the real specific work just yet.

    The Bill Starr program is good as it covers strength in thre main lifts squat, bench press and power clean (or bent over row). However, it is incomplete (in my opinion) in that it only focuses on developing one quality (strength) where sports performance calls upon several qualities.

    If you have a program that only prioritizes strength, then you have an incomplete program.
    Optimum Sports Performance

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  3. #3
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    I haven't been doing plyo's lately and we don't even have a coach yet but some of the seniors are gonna start spring training in about 2 months.
    And I swapped power cleans out for B/O Row.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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    bump
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Patrick
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    start making a more balanced program and focusing on other capacities.

    2 months = 8 weeks of training

    1-3 weeks focus on work capacity/general conditioning (with small emphasis on strength and power...start using plyos that focus on deceleration)

    week 4- transition to heavier strength work

    week 5-6= strength work focus; power training secondary emphasis

    week 7-8= sports power and specific conditioning; strength secondary


    And that is assuming that you don't have other issues going on with your body. it is impossible to be specific with a program without being there to see you and assess the situation.

    Take into consideration everything from:

    - injuries
    - faulty movement patterns
    - position
    - what you need to improve on (strength or power or work capacity or increasing muscular size)

    all that is above is very general.
    Optimum Sports Performance

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  6. #6
    Patrick
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    also, if you read my blog, you should have some ideas of how to set things up.

    being by coming up with a template of things that you have to work on. how many days a week of lifting....what about conditioning? will it be done on lifting days or on non-lifting days? What about when you get to specific conditioning? What do you know about work to rest ratios in your sport. what position do you play and how does that affect things.

    what is your template going to be....total body....upper/lower....

    you need to establish these things before moving forward.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  7. #7
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    Alright thanks P I'll check your blog out, much appreciated.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  8. #8
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    Hey I read your blog "Developing a sports training program" and this is what I came up with on every point...


    1.) Assessment-
    One Rep Maxes

    Weight-175lbs
    Height-5'10"
    BF%- ~12%
    Bench- 220
    Squat- 270
    Dead-Lift- 285
    Row- 240
    Endurance Plank- 00:07:01
    Room for Improvement- Explosiveness/agility
    2.) Sport- Football

    3.) Typical Injuries- Knee & neck sprain (those are the 2 injuries I had last year)

    4.) Energy Systems for Football- ATP-PC, Anaerobic Glycosis, & Aerobic

    5.) Joint Angles- I'm not to sure about this one I couldn't find anything about it, but my positions are Middle Linebacker/Defensive End and Tight-end. So for ML the joint would be knees mainly, and for DE & TE it would be hips and knees. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    6.) Where in the Year is the Athlete- Two months before spring training which in past years lasted anywhere from two days to two weeks then we get together in the summer and have little "two-touch" scrimmages which are un-mandatory then we have a week of two-a-days and I'd rather train than dick around in the summer.
    Last edited by ptwannabe; 04-03-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Template (Rough Draft)
    M,T,Th,F

    Week 1-3 Capacity/General Conditioning
    Monday

    Tuesday

    Thursday

    Friday

    Week 4 Transition to Heavier Strength Work
    Monday

    Tuesday

    Thursday

    Friday

    Week 5-6 First Priority Strength, Second Power
    Monday

    Tuesday

    Thursday

    Friday

    Week 7-8 Sport Power & Specific Conditioning first/Strength second priority

    Monday

    Tuesday

    Thursday

    Friday


    I'm at a loss of what to fill in these days with I should be able to condition on lifting days and on non-lifting days.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  10. #10
    Patrick
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    I would now set up a daily template:

    warm up
    conditioning/speed/agility (depening on days and phases)
    plyometric work
    resistance training
    core work
    flexibility


    Then start to fill in the blanks.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  11. #11
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    P is offering some solid advice here. The benefit of doing what he suggests over more traditional linear periodization is a lesser deterioration of the biomotor abilities you aren't emphasizing.
    The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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  12. #12
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowPimp View Post
    P is offering some solid advice here. The benefit of doing what he suggests over more traditional linear periodization is a lesser deterioration of the biomotor abilities you aren't emphasizing.
    yea....i try and steer away from just training one quality (linear periodization), especially in sports where several qualities (like football) are needed in order to be successful.

    I wish I could be more specific, but I know nothing about you. One thing I would say about your trainign split is:

    in phase 1: think about maybe training 3x's a week and working on your conditioning on inbetween days....as well, work on anything that needs big help (movement problems/strength deficits)....if you read my blog over the next few entries I am going to talk about circuit training and adding it to a program to help increase your benefits; by using it as "extra workouts" during the week and focusing on those important areas that need to get work.

    in the transition, maintain that 3x's a week, drop the volume and up the intensity a little.

    in phase 2 (the strength phase) up the inensity a little and volume of strength work but still maintain work capcity stuff as well.

    In phases 1-2 plyos should be low level and also include plyos that work primarily on deceleratation, in order to prepare you for more intense work to come.

    In phase 3: I would go with more concentrated loading (the west-side BB split is actually a good split to use ideas from....but, change some things as you are not trainign for a powerlifting meet).

    in phase 4 (power emphasis) I would drop training to very low volume of strength work2-3x's a week and focus mainly on power work and sports specific drills. This is your time to really get your ass ready for pre-season. Strenght work can be low volume and i also like using complexes here, for example 1a) back squat for 1-3 reps; rest 3min; 1b) broad jump for 8 reps; rest 3min. repeat as you work a strength/power continuum. You don't have to do this at all, but I find it to be effective sometimes.

    hope that gives you some more food for thought.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  13. #13
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    yep it sure is giving me food for thought I have my pen and notebook out taking notes, This is great info. I'll be sure to read your blog the next few days.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #14
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    Hey P, could you give me some examples of deceleration plyos?
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  15. #15
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwannabe View Post
    Hey P, could you give me some examples of deceleration plyos?
    Jump squat stick
    sinlge leg forward jump and stick
    1-2 stick
    lateral hop and stick
    altitude landings (from a low surface at first)

    Box jumps are also a good place to start since they limit landing force.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  16. #16
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    Daily Template

    Monday
    Warmup
    Plyo (light)
    Resistance
    Core work
    Flexibility

    Tuesday
    Warmup
    Speed/Agi
    Plyo work ( I'm not sure if I need to do plyo work everyday or just on resistance days or on inbetween days)
    Flexibility

    Wednsday
    Warmup
    Plyo
    Resistance
    Core work
    Flexibility

    Thursday
    Warmup
    Agi/Speed
    Plyo
    Flexibility

    Friday
    Warmup
    Plyo
    Resistance
    Core work
    Flexibility

    Saturday
    Warmup
    Conditioning
    Plyo
    Flexibility

    Sunday
    OFF
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  17. #17
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    What I am thinking about for my warmup on inbetween days is this.

    1/4 mile jog
    Jumping Jacks
    Hammy Kicks-20yrds
    High Knees-20yrds
    Saigon Squat-30 sec
    Carioca-20yrds
    Hip Flexors
    Hammy Kicks again
    High Knees again
    Last edited by ptwannabe; 04-07-2008 at 07:20 PM.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  18. #18
    Patrick
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    your set up is all over the place. you don't need plyos on every day. you have lots of stuff spread out and you need better direction (did you check out my blog today? I had training splits lied out).

    Not sure about that warm up. Not a big fan of butt kicks and high knees as they teach movements that don't really happen in a sprint. But, if you combine the too, they work a little better together.

    Don't know what a saigon squat is either.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  19. #19
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    Yea, I didn't think I needed plyos everyday.

    And a Saigon Squat is where you squat and use your elbows to spread your legs slowly.

    And I'm not too familiar how to train for this but I'm trying hard to get this right.

    I'm about to look at your blog in like 5 seconds
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  20. #20
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwannabe View Post
    Yea, I didn't think I needed plyos everyday.

    And a Saigon Squat is where you squat and use your elbows to spread your legs slowly.

    And I'm not too familiar how to train for this but I'm trying hard to get this right.

    I'm about to look at your blog in like 5 seconds
    It's okay if you aren't familiar.....that is why you are asking questions! the best part is, once you get familiar and you learn how to set it up, people will be asking you for help!!

    Just keep at it man. You interest in learning more is going to take you far.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  21. #21
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    The split that stuck out to me was

    Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
    Day2- speed and agility work
    Day3- Heavy lower body day/lighter upper body work
    Day4- tempos or circuits
    Day5- Speed and agility
    Day6- tempos or circuits

    -And about tempo and circuit work. Could you give examples of the two I think I understand tempo work but just to grasp the concept more.

    -And on Day 1 and Day 3 what would the number of lifts, sets, reps, and rest ratio be for heavy upper body/lighter lower body & Heavy lower/Lighter upper be?
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  22. #22
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    The split that stuck out to me was

    Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
    Day2- speed and agility work
    Day3- Heavy lower body day/lighter upper body work
    Day4- tempos or circuits
    Day5- Speed and agility
    Day6- tempos or circuits

    -And about tempo and circuit work. Could you give examples of the two I think I understand tempo work but just to grasp the concept more.

    -And on Day 1 and Day 3 what would the number of lifts, sets, reps, and rest ratio be for heavy upper body/lighter lower body & Heavy lower/Lighter upper be?
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  23. #23
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    I read back over circuit training, I missed your example workout in your blog. So basically it is doing constant movements resting then moving right into different constant movements until you have worked everything you planned to
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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  24. #24
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwannabe View Post
    The split that stuck out to me was

    Day1- heavy upper body day/lighter lower body day
    Day2- speed and agility work
    Day3- Heavy lower body day/lighter upper body work
    Day4- tempos or circuits
    Day5- Speed and agility
    Day6- tempos or circuits

    -And about tempo and circuit work. Could you give examples of the two I think I understand tempo work but just to grasp the concept more.

    -And on Day 1 and Day 3 what would the number of lifts, sets, reps, and rest ratio be for heavy upper body/lighter lower body & Heavy lower/Lighter upper be?

    That split is okay, but since you are so far from training camp, you would want to lift more and getting in some training volume and increase strength (and size if need be). That split is better for later phases of trainign when sports specific work needs to be focused on at the expense of less time in the weight room.

    The tempo work would be, like I said, running the straights at about 70-75% (so not all out; but working on form or technique) and then walking the turns, or performing calisthenics or an abdominal/core circuit. This is different than speed work, where you are performing maximal effort (or near max effort) sprints with a long rest periodi (3-5min) and different than metabolic work where you are developing your anaerobic capacity and your ability to resist fatigue (like shuttle runs or something like that). Hope that makes sense to you.

    For the circuit, I gave an example, you just need to find the things that are most important to you and work them into that circuit (if you opt to use this as part of your training program)
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  25. #25
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    Would you recommend the:
    Option 1 (upper/lower)
    Day1- speed and agility/low volume leg work
    Day2- Tempo work/upper body training
    Day3- off or active rest or low intensity body weight circuits
    Day4- speed and agility/low volume leg work
    Day5- Tempo work/upper body training
    Day6- off or active rest or low intensity body weight circuits
    Day7- OFF
    that you had in your blog also

    Or what type of split would you recommend?
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  26. #26
    Patrick
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    that would be a good one for your first few blocks of training.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  27. #27
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    alright, cool. And just fyi I am starting my week off from the bill start program today and I plan to start this 8 wk program next week, but if I don't have all the information I need I'll postpone starting it in order to get it as good as I can, I don't want to waste time.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  28. #28
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwannabe View Post
    alright, cool. And just fyi I am starting my week off from the bill start program today and I plan to start this 8 wk program next week, but if I don't have all the information I need I'll postpone starting it in order to get it as good as I can, I don't want to waste time.
    If it isn't perfect, start something. If you spend you entire life planning the best program, you will spend your entire life planning the best program.

    How much time do you have to train? How many days a week can you train? AM and PM workouts? How much time can you devote to training?
    Optimum Sports Performance

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    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-funk View Post
    If it isn't perfect, start something. If you spend you entire life planning the best program, you will spend your entire life planning the best program.

    How much time do you have to train? How many days a week can you train? AM and PM workouts? How much time can you devote to training?
    I have alot of time to train, I can train any day of the week, I can to am and pm workouts, and I can devote however much time is needed to training.
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
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    double post
    "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

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