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Two months post-Hdrol cycle blood work.

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    Two months post-Hdrol cycle blood work.

    I finished my H-drol/1-T cycle about two months ago.

    I've had two sets of blood tests since. The latest saw these results:

    Urea - slightly up
    Creatinine - slightly up

    Liver values - slightly up.
    HDL cholesterol - just under average.
    LDL cholesterol - just above average.

    The top two results are down to a high-protein diet and CEE supplementation.

    As for the elevated liver values, that was down to the high-dosed, long-cycled H-drol.

    The second set of tests revealed these values had dropped a fair bit, but were still a little higher than usual - but at least they're heading in the right direction, though. I am going back in for some more tests in two weeks, so hopefully they'll be significantly lower or back to normal this time around.

    My main concern, though, is the change in HDL and LDL. Before the cycle, I had a check-up and both levels were normal. Now, the 'good' HDL has dropped slightly and the 'bad' LDL has risen a bit. My diet hasn't changed significantly since being on the H-drol. My diet still comprises a lot of fibre and fruit and veg (although this part could be better) and the only foods I can see affecting the levels are the eggs (I have a bout two omelettes a week, both having 3 yolks and 6 whites. Having said that, I know many believe that eggs promote balanced cholesterol so I'm unsure as what to think on this one) and red meat (which I eat about 2-3 times a week - the mince is less than 5% fat).

    This leaves me to summise that it was mainly the H-drol that has affected both my HDL and LDL. Is H-drol similar to Winny in that it can significantly affect one’s lipid profiles? Also, would carrying around an extra 30-odd lbs that I wasn't before have that much of a detrimental effect on these levels (I've only gained lean mass and my body fat percentage is pretty similar to what it was initially).

    The only other factors I can think of is that I don’t do any cardio. I know this seems to be one of the reasons behind the change in levels, but I didn’t do a great deal of cardio beforehand, either. I did play 5-a-side football for 30 minutes on Monday nights (and did so while on cycle, too), but is lacking even that small duration of exercise - combined with potential faults in my diet – enough to mean it’s not solely the H-drol that caused these HDL/LDL fluctuations? If not, perhaps it’s the combination of the lot that's causing these alterations.

    Any thoughts?
    Cheers.

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    Is H-drol similar to Winny in that it can significantly affect one’s lipid profiles?
    All oral steroids injur your lipid profile. What are the actual before and after HDL and LDL counts?
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    I know this is careless, but I lost the results form at the start of the year, not long after having the tests done. I'm going to ask if I can get another copy from my doctor when I go on the 27th. All I can remember her saying, while summarising the results in the original pre-cycle tests, that my total cholesterol level was around 5 mmol/l (I think you guys have mg/dl in the US, therefore, I think that comes out about 90 mg/dl - which I was told was normal) To be honest, though, I'm not sure how useful this average is, and I know these results can be affected by factors that impinge their accuracy. As for the post-cycle results, I didn't get a copy (things seem to work a bit differently here in the UK when seeing your GP - either that, or I'm just not 'doing it' right), she just talked through each test saying how it had improved or worsened since last time. I will try and get specific numbers from all tests.

    What's the deal with the lipid profile, then? Will it re-adjust itself over time, or is it screwed unless I alter my diet and training to get it back in synch? Or worse, is it permanently damaged?

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate! View Post
    All oral steroids injur your lipid profile. What are the actual before and after HDL and LDL counts?
    Can't raised t-levels in general cause changes in lipid profile? I was under the impression that even injectiable test cycles can alter things.

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    A "good" total score for cholesterol would be around 150-200, maybe your LDL was 90, that could be possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    A "good" total score for cholesterol would be around 150-200, maybe your LDL was 90, that could be possible.
    I think 5 (90) is considered a 'good' total score if the blood test was taken after fasting/before a meal (which mine was). I think 8 (150) is considered the norm when the test is taken without fasting or after a meal. However, I'm not 100% sure on this sort of thing and am, therefore, totally reliant on what my GP tells me. I know my lack of data doesn't really help here, either.

    Here is a small piece on mmol/l - mg/dl conversions and their respective levels:

    What are mg/dl and mmol/l? How to convert? Glucose? Cholesterol?

    As for the lipid profile, will it naturally return to normal or is it something I'll have to work on?

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mags View Post
    I know this is careless, but I lost the results form at the start of the year, not long after having the tests done. I'm going to ask if I can get another copy from my doctor when I go on the 27th. All I can remember her saying, while summarising the results in the original pre-cycle tests, that my total cholesterol level was around 5 mmol/l (I think you guys have mg/dl in the US, therefore, I think that comes out about 90 mg/dl - which I was told was normal) To be honest, though, I'm not sure how useful this average is, and I know these results can be affected by factors that impinge their accuracy. As for the post-cycle results, I didn't get a copy (things seem to work a bit differently here in the UK when seeing your GP - either that, or I'm just not 'doing it' right), she just talked through each test saying how it had improved or worsened since last time. I will try and get specific numbers from all tests.

    What's the deal with the lipid profile, then? Will it re-adjust itself over time, or is it screwed unless I alter my diet and training to get it back in synch? Or worse, is it permanently damaged?

    Cheers.
    OnlineConversion.com - Cholesterol Converter

    It's 193 in mg/dL

    Eggs won't impact much on chol, but your carbohydrate consumption can, as can fructose. You might consider dropping carbs down quite low for a bit, drop a bit of bodyfat maybe.

    (Also, I seem to recall creatinine can be high from intense training)
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    lipid profiles typically go back to normal on their own if your diet has not changed from pre-cycle.

    150-200 total is what I hear is good. My current doctor said he likes to see under 150 now. I personally don't know what is medicine and what is fabricated. It seems like both cholesterol and blood pressure numbers have been changed in reguards to what is "ideal". Matter of fact they have changed a few times in my years of actually knowing better.

    It would appear to me drug companies have great influences on what numbers are ideal to have. I personally view this as a method to get everyone, or the majority of people taking iether a blood pressure or cholesterol pill...and TOTALLY IRONICALLY they now have a pill that does both for you. Imagine that.

    People die from heart related death with low pressure/cholesterol....even end up with clogged arteries with it as well...so I really think cholesterol/blood pressure ideal numbers is fabricated to some degree to make money. I am sure there is a line that can be drawn as what is not a healthy level, but I truly believe that everyone is not the same, and neither is our normal pressure/cholesterol numbers. I don't think a label can be used for everyone.

    Anyways I would just get it checked again in 6-8 weeks if you are concerned. If diet has not changed it then its the supplements, and since you no longer take them, and assuming your diet is good the numbers will go back on their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    OnlineConversion.com - Cholesterol Converter

    It's 193 in mg/dL

    Eggs won't impact much on chol, but your carbohydrate consumption can, as can fructose. You might consider dropping carbs down quite low for a bit, drop a bit of bodyfat maybe.

    (Also, I seem to recall creatinine can be high from intense training)
    My carb intake has remained high since I increased them for the bulk/cycle in order to help maintain my gains. They've been 'clean' carbs from oats, rice, pototoes, pasta and fruit, but I've heard the sources of carbs aren't always the problem but rather the amount consumed. I've stopped taking the CEE for the moment to see if that makes much of a difference and perhaps I'll cut back on the carbs somewhat to see how I react to that.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    OnlineConversion.com - Cholesterol Converter

    It's 193 in mg/dL

    Eggs won't impact much on chol, but your carbohydrate consumption can, as can fructose. You might consider dropping carbs down quite low for a bit, drop a bit of bodyfat maybe.

    (Also, I seem to recall creatinine can be high from intense training)
    Check out Mags pix, he aint got much body fat to drop!

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    Oooh, I'll go look!

    Mags, since you're lean, you'll be fine. Keep your diet nice and tight, it should settle down to normal - you're not far off normal as it is, and 5 mmol/L isn't particularly high for a man anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Oooh, I'll go look!

    Mags, since you're lean, you'll be fine. Keep your diet nice and tight, it should settle down to normal - you're not far off normal as it is, and 5 mmol/L isn't particularly high for a man anyway.
    Thanks guys, I'll keep on with the norm for the time being then. It will have been a little over a month since my last set of tests (and I have a week or so to wait for the next), so hopefully things will have improved this time around. I guess I shouldn't really be surprised at how the cycle affected my body, considering the dose and duration of the cycle. Hopefully things will be back to normal (whatever that is) soon enough. Fingers crossed.

    Cheers.

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    Concentrate on the healthy fats, particularly fish oil and olive oil, and keep your fructose down as low as possible. This means watch it with the table sugar and the tree fruits. I'd keep carbs down somewhat lower than normal in general - keep the cals up with the healthy fats, I'm not talking about a cut here, just a shift in macros while you recover.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Concentrate on the healthy fats, particularly fish oil and olive oil, and keep your fructose down as low as possible. This means watch it with the table sugar and the tree fruits. I'd keep carbs down somewhat lower than normal in general - keep the cals up with the healthy fats, I'm not talking about a cut here, just a shift in macros while you recover.
    I eat large portions of Salmon twice a week and use olive oil in pretty much everything , but other than that, I'm not too clued up on healthy fats and where to get them from - I'll have a gander around the forum and google. I only have a teaspoon of sugar when I drink tea, but then I must have nearly 8-12 cups a day, so I might try and cut back on that, too.

    Thanks again.

    Oh, by the way, this is my 1000th post. I guess you should get a prize or something, right?

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    Use splenda or dextrose for your tea for now. Healthy fat is what I listed, monounsaturated and fish oil.

    I'd suggest upping the fish oil - I take 10 grams daily in addition to the fish I consume.

    Other healthy fats would include raw nuts, natural peanut butter, and avocados. All excellent sources of healthy mono and polyunsaturated fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Use splenda or dextrose for your tea for now. Healthy fat is what I listed, monounsaturated and fish oil.

    I'd suggest upping the fish oil - I take 10 grams daily in addition to the fish I consume.

    Other healthy fats would include raw nuts, natural peanut butter, and avocados. All excellent sources of healthy mono and polyunsaturated fat.
    Cheers.

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    I commented in your photo gallery. You look amazing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    I commented in your photo gallery. You look amazing!
    Thanks, I'm not looking too shabby in those pictures (although my face kind of lets them down) . I was really pleased with the results from that cycle. I was 'in the zone' for 8 weeks - all I did was eat, sleep and train. In fact, I trained my ass off. To be honest, I didn't have a lot of faith at the start as I was cynical towards the 1-T (although its rave reviews were what led me to try it) purely because my experience with transdermals was zilch, and I'd heard H-drol was too 'mild' therefore not a good choice for bulking. However, I put on around 30lbs. The best thing is I've kept nearly all the size and power, too (give or take a few lbs). My conditioning, however (although I still have clear abs and obliques), is not as impressive as it was when on. But I guess that's obvious.

    It was my attempt at a bulk, too. I was eating as much as I could (around 5000+ cals a day) and I was fortunate to gain a lot of size while losing fat. I had that bulky, rounded look the whole time on cycle, but not that puffy, fat look. I was very lucky to have kept my definition (and even improved it) while gaining size. The two compounds used have given my system a bit of a going over (which was to be expected), but I loved them and they worked wonders.

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    Here is my bloodwork from my h-drol run last year it was 5 weeks at 75mg a day. Bloodwork was done the day after pct.



    Last edited by Built; 05-18-2009 at 11:51 AM. Reason: fixed image tags

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    Okay, so your kidneys are working and your CBC looks good.

    Hormones?

    Edit - I fixed the image tags on the hormone panel.
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    Okay, total testosterone is at half mast, your lipids suck and your free testosterone is in the toilet. Did you get your bloodwork done again after that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Okay, total testosterone is at half mast, your lipids suck and your free testosterone is in the toilet. Did you get your bloodwork done again after that?
    I was thinking the same, to add what did you use for pct to fix this?
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    my test is near 900ish...My tests dont show the free test...I wonder if that is an issue? hmmm..next time maybe I should have both looked at...wonder why my doctor didn't do both?

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    A lot of them don't know. You need the free test levels measured. I wish men would get estradiol tested as well. Most doctors don't understand its significance, and only measure PSA.
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    yea eventually I will be in a position to do more regular in depth testing to find out how longs effect me etc... issue is here in US its not free, and my insurance doesn't pay for that stuff unless its regular stuff....basically I have to satisfy a copay before they do.

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    That sucks.

    Personally, I wish I could find someone who could test drugs.
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    Hell, my tests did not go that indepth at all.

    The only things getting tested when I go back this time are Urea and Electrolytes, Liver function, Thyroid fucntion and random glucose.

    I don't expect my Doctor to be up to speed with the lifestyle of a bodybuilder, but she didn't really take into account my input. I don't blame her, they're probably sick of overreacting patient's with self-diagnosis and I by no means am a doctor, but I knew more about the products I was taking than she did. She was looking up stuff on google! I explained that certain things had, almost certainly, been affected by the H-drol - that it was toxic to the liver, possibly suppressive of my natural test production, affected my lipid profile. I was hinting for her to give me the works when it came to what they'd test, but she seemed to overlook this and told me to just stop taking everything and to lower my protein intake.

    It'd be good to have a doc that knew all about this sort of stuff and could give informed advice instead of the whole 'steroids will kill you' spiel.
    Last edited by Mags; 05-18-2009 at 04:17 PM.

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    Your doctor actually told you to cut back on your protein intake?

    Did she say why?
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    She said my urea levels were above average. I explained that I presumed it was because of a high protein turnover in my diet. She said that I should cut back a bit. I said I'd give it a go, but most modern western diets tend to be high-protein based, so thought she might be a bit out of touch. Again, I might sound like an idiot saying this as she's the doc and only trying to help me get back to 'normal'. I was also a little concerned why she seemed to be focusing on this rather than what I thought were the other, more important issues (But again, I'm no doc).

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    It could also just mean you're a bit dehydrated. Or slightly overtrained.

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    Disclaimer: All health, fitness, diet, nutrition, anabolic steroid & supplement information posted here is intended for educational and informational purposes only, and is not intended as a substitute for proper medical advice from a medical doctor. We do not condone the use of anabolic steroids (AAS), all information about AAS is for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you choose to use AAS it's your responsibility to know the laws of the country that you live in. Consult your physician or health care professional before performing any of the exercises, or following any diet, nutrition or supplement advice described on this website.

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