jhawkin1

I am currently cutting (24 years old), and seeing great results using the HIIT training tagged along with steady state cardio. Recently, my knees have been really sore, and I try and ice directly after I have concluded my cardio session. Is this a good time to ice? How long should I ice? Is there any sort of suppl. or anything that could help with my joints?

All I take is a multi-vitamin, activate xtreme, whey protein (pre workout), and fish oil. Any others you could recommend? Thanks!

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

Yanick

Ice is great to take down the inflammation, create an analgesic effect and, according to some, it 'flushes' the tissue (vasoconstricts and squeezes out the blood then the reactive hyperemia[the redness you see when you take the ice off] sort of lets in fresh new blood). Make sure there is something between your skin and he ice, wrap the ice bag in a towel or something. I typically hold the ice for 15-20min at a time as time allows.

How much fish oil do you take? It has some anti-inflammatory properties and maybe bumping that up would help as well.

Otherwise you should maybe look into switching modalities for the HIIT, maybe do the rower for the intervals or the bike. You only get 1 pair of knees and if you wreck them now, you'll be sorry.

"The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

IainDaniel

What type of steady state cardio are you doing? Running?

Shoes you wear while you train?

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P-funk

Have you read this article?

Ouch! My knee hurts! — Patrick Ward, MS CSCS LMT

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jhawkin1

My father has a history of knee problems but he says it was from always getting hit in the knee in football and doing stupid things when he was a kid...hopefully that's not what i'm doing to mine!

I take 6-10g of fish oil a day.

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

jhawkin1

Yes, I jog at a fast enough pace where I am working hard, but sustainable for 20 minutes.

I have a pair of asics, and some nike shoes. About 3-4 months old.

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

jhawkin1

I have not. I need to do some yard work, then I will def. read the article- Thanks!

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

gtbmed

What type of HIIT are you doing?

It could be a gait problem. If the shoes you're wearing don't match your gait (i.e. if you pronate but you don't have a good stability shoe for running) then it's likely you'll continue to have knee pain until you change shoes or change your gait.

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jhawkin1

I do a 25-30 second all-out sprint, then walk for 45 seconds- repeat. I've gotten up to 8 sprints so far. I am going for 10 tomorrow. I walk around a grass field for about 5 minutes after HIIT, then do 20 minutes of steady state cardio.

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

rahaas

Any swelling?

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jhawkin1

The area right below my knee cap really swells up and is where I have the most pain. I'm not sure if there is a tendon/muscle there that is causing me problems or if it's fluid? I took anatomy and physiology to become a PE teacher, but obviously it in one ear and went out the other- any ideas?

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

rahaas

First I'm no doctor and no where near the expert on the subject as Patrick but can tell you my own experience.
I had pain in my right knee with swelling. It would come and go with no reason that i could figure out.
One day it swelled up so bad I couldn't bend it at all. Doc examined and said it was filled with fluid. He drained it and gave me a shot. It happened again one time after that so I went back and had the same procedure done and it has been fine ever since with no pain at all. That's been three years ago.
Only advice I can offer is follow Patrick's advice and if that doesn't work see a doctor to get it checked out.

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rahaas

Well he may have thought it was the football but it could have been rheumatoid arthritis. It runs in my family as well.

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jhawkin1

And there is no way to avoid it? How about bring the pain down or at least bring it to a minimum?

Also, gluteamine good for joints? I know- I spelled it wrong!

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

Yanick

Glutamine for joints? Not that I know of, unless you burned the shit out of your joint its pretty much a waste of money.

Your fish oil is probably adequate, try taking the higher end (10g/day) with meals and see if that helps.

So check out Pat's blog, use some ice, switch to something thats easier on the knees with less impact. If that doesn't really resolve anything you should be assessed by a professional.

"The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

jhawkin1

Any suggestions on what I should switch to in terms of HIIT? Will it be as effective as sprinting?

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

Built

Try "eight seconds of glory/doom", or complexes.

Got Built? » 8 seconds of glory
Got Built? » Superior(ity) Complex(es)

Don't be afraid to back off your leg work for a week or two. I recently took a couple of weeks of heavy training because of a neck injury, and I'm amazed at how my knees no longer hurt. Didn't lose any strength at all.

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highpockets

I've had multiple knee surgeries and have no cartilage left in my left knee. I do not do much cardio at all, but I still play basketball once a week. During the week if I do feel like a bit of cardio, I perform a HIIT session on the elliptical. I tried this on the treadmill, but it was just too hard on the knees. The elliptical takes the stress of the knees and is just as good for me. I start out at a moderate pace for a few minutes then I go as fast as I can for 1 minute, moderate for 1 minute, fast for 1 minute and so on. I do this for 10 or 15 minutes. It seems to get my heart rate up and I have been recovering much quicker lately. Hope it helps and ice is your friend.

jhawkin1

Awesome! Thanks for the advice...have you tried The 1-Andro RX? Would it be good for a bulk? Finishing up a cut on activate xtreme, maintenance w/ no supplement, and a bulk with either activate xtreme or I'd like to do the 1-Andro Rx.

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

Yanick

As far as intervals go, you can pretty much do it on anything. Bike (spin or regular), elliptical, rower should all be fairly easy on the knees, not much impact there.

Also as Built pointed out, complexes are great. They really beat the crap out of me. You can really do anything you'd like as long as it makes sense, I sort of make up circuits on the spot and do a few sets of them then jump on the bike or something else for an easy 10-20 min afterwards.

My Saturday conditioning day was simple as 1 power clean + 3 front squats = 1 rep. 4 sets of 3 reps with a jerk thrown in here and there. Then I jumped on the spin bike for 5 min at a hard and fast pace, then I supersetted supinated grip pull ups with push ups for a couple of sets and left. It was sort of all over the place but I was a victim of circumstance (diet getting too me, some other stuff I planned wasn't possible etc).

"The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

jhawkin1

Sounds like a great idea- full body workout with a bit of cardio in there on the bike. Maybe here in the next week I will switch it up. I've got 3 and 1/2 weeks left of the cut, then I am going to enjoy the summer, have my 2-3 beers when it's nice out and still workout regularly. Then once August hits, I'm going to gain as much muscle as I can without overloading (gaining too much fat during the process).

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

Yanick

It works and its fun (more fun than staring at the numbers on the machine atleast). Just remember that its conditioning work so you don't wan't to be going heavy and squeezing out reps or you start turning it into strength type work and that could impair recovery between the real lifting sessions.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, I got really fat so now I'm dropping some weight and going to maintenance (where I'll ease up on my diet) and just trying to get more fit and stronger without any goals as far as appearance goes. Although I'm sure recomping will happen, a 200lb guy who lifts for 6 months and goes from squatting 300 to 400 and doing 10 pull ups to 20 etc will look a lot different as well, even if the scale doesn't budge.

"The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

jhawkin1

I actually cut pretty well this year- started at 160 and got down to around 147- currently around 150 just under 10% body fat. I finally got my cutting diet down a few months back- now when I come back around next year, I will hopefully have more muscle mass on me so the cut will look much nicer! I have never done a clean bulk before so I need to do as much research as possible, as well as, coming up with a new training split! Obvious once you increase calories you must increase your work load, but I need to see in terms of set/reps etc. on what I will be doing so I am ready to jump in come August.

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

ALBOB

Did you mean Glucosamine?

Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

jhawkin1

Yep that's it!

Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass
New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

UKwildcat

Everyone has given you the joint/pain advice but to get back to your shoes ....... I would look into a new pair of shoes if your doing 20 minute steady state cardio. I work at Finish Line in the mall to pay the bills in college and you would be amazed at how broken down midsoles can get after a 3-4 month period. If you don't believe me go into any major shoe store and have them pull out the nike midsole book (sort of a book lol with all the air pockets and midsole materials that go each and every nike shoe).I skimmed over all the replies and did not see how many days you were doing your running, but I would look into some new shoes at the very least.

Try a pair of Brooks specifically the ghost, glycerin, or adrenaline depending on your pronation. Asics are great shoes too, but the toe box is a little different than any other shoe company (wider to accomodate for the fact they market their shoes to runners mainly). I have a neutral foot with a medium arch and the brooks ghost alleviates my knee pain when I run. I have worn Asics Kinisei's and Kinetic's (both upwards of $150), Nike Air Max 360's, and Nike Air Max 2009's (both $160) and loved each of those 4 pairs, but the brooks ghost did wonders for my knees. The forefoot cushioning is like no other shoe I have ever put on my foot, and that is almost every single new running shoe to come into Finish Line since December 2007

Brooks Ghost

T_man

Beat me to it. Dang someone hand me some hash

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