My routine good enough for PH use?

diablomex · 06-18-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

diablomex:

You do realize that using a PH or Andro of any kind while at a high BF level is a recipe for bitch tits, correct?

Adipose tissue and aromatase levels are directly related; the more of one, the more of the other. That means that when you have a lot of fat, that test you're shooting or creating via a PH will be turned into estrogen at greater levels in someone who is fat rather than someone who is lean.

You should do your homework before complaining about other people's advice.

maybe so,but he doesnt look like he's carrying a lot of fat,though.

T_man · 06-18-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablomex

wow.i do hear what your saying,and i do believe that also on the first part.and im not downing nobody,if someone thinks that, i apoligize . i mean no disrespect . and if we're gonna make our points.we can do it respectfully. and i never said anybody was trying to sell anything,get it right.and i never said anything about him doing a ph.actually i agree with him. i think he should do his ph, bulk up some more,until he's happy.then cut , if he wants to.if he wants to follow you guys advice,thats fine too.i was talking about something else.obviously, you did'nt get what i meant .oh well,it all good.but i think you need to hear what your saying, on the second part.ive been on these forums,for a long time now and not only on this one.and all i have to say is,theirs always is a first.wow.i have a attitude.

sorry but claiming that "some skinny guy tells you what to do" after juggernaut has offered some real good advice that is applicable to EVERYONE, not just certain people is kinda offensive.

and if you've been here a while then you should know that the people here know wat they're doing. I'm sorry if what I said came across as me trying to instruct him; no; i just chip in and learn what's what by mentioning something and then getting criticism for it.

to me he looks around 16/17% bf at least and cutting down 6% more fat will be easier for both an easier cut, and then a lean bulk on PH, or relatively lean anyways. stopping anything from piling up eh?

DIVINITUS · 06-18-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

It's like starting out with an empty canvas. The gradual surplus of calories after cutting also enables you to partition better at a lower BF percentage.

Thanks for all of the input. I have decided to cut for awhile. From what you just said and my own personal experience 2 years ago of being very lean and then adding weight, it was a much different experience...almost more fun lifting that way if that makes sense...and the kicker? I talked to the girlfriend today and she wants a lean man...at least for the summer

DIVINITUS · 06-18-2009, 07:58 PM

Also...Juggernaut, I was going to use Lyle's generic bulk routine, but if cutting how should I train? I know I should keep the weights high, but what about knocking a set off most of the exercises in that routine? I like the 4 day split, now that I started it this week. UD2.0 is not an option for me at this time, due to my work schedule for the immediate future. I looked at Built's spread sheets and the schedule of training just isn't possible for me right now as I flip flop from nights to days and back again at work and my schedule changes from week to week. When leaning out, I had very good experiences with the Intermittent Fasting approach talked about on Patrick D's blog and even mentioned by Lyle on his site.

Thoughts?

diablomex · 06-18-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

sorry but claiming that "some skinny guy tells you what to do" after juggernaut has offered some real good advice that is applicable to EVERYONE, not just certain people is kinda offensive.

and if you've been here a while then you should know that the people here know wat they're doing. I'm sorry if what I said came across as me trying to instruct him; no; i just chip in and learn what's what by mentioning something and then getting criticism for it.

to me he looks around 16/17% bf at least and cutting down 6% more fat will be easier for both an easier cut, and then a lean bulk on PH, or relatively lean anyways. stopping anything from piling up eh?

i think,maybe your not getting what i was trying to say.but thats fine.not a big deal.but, what your saying sounds fine, too.

danzik17 · 06-18-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVINITUS

Also...Juggernaut, I was going to use Lyle's generic bulk routine, but if cutting how should I train? I know I should keep the weights high, but what about knocking a set off most of the exercises in that routine? I like the 4 day split, now that I started it this week. UD2.0 is not an option for me at this time, due to my work schedule for the immediate future. I looked at Built's spread sheets and the schedule of training just isn't possible for me right now as I flip flop from nights to days and back again at work and my schedule changes from week to week. When leaning out, I had very good experiences with the Intermittent Fasting approach talked about on Patrick D's blog and even mentioned by Lyle on his site.

Thoughts?

If you had a good experience with IF - great, use it! The important thing is the deficit in any cutting diet. Training should be a lot of heavy compounds to maintain muscle mass, but not a lot of volume in general.

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

If you had a good experience with IF - great, use it! The important thing is the deficit in any cutting diet. Training should be a lot of heavy compounds to maintain muscle mass, but not a lot of volume in general.

Thanks Danzik...Any problems with hitting the muscles 2x per 7 days as long as the volume per day is pretty low? When I used IF before I was on a Mon/Wed/Fri split, hitting each muscle group essentially once per 7 days. I tried Lyle's generic bulk routine this week...which I like alot, but it hs me hitting my muscle once every 5 days. I figured if I knocked a set of each exercise, but kept my weight high it would be okay for cutting, just don't know if hitting the muscles a little more frequently would be detrimental while cutting, that's all.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 06:25 AM

divinitus, you seem to be switching from system to system. If it works continue to use it until it doesnt work. Or, try one system out for 6 to 8 weeks and measure up in a way that is tangible. Try the generic bulk routine if it works, but keep an eye on your calories-dont go overboard. You dont need to really make that much of a change just 10 to 20% above maintenance (provided you know the numbers). I have my difference of opinion on what youre trying to accomplish but stick to one thing and do it for set amount of time.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablomex

i think,maybe your not getting what i was trying to say.but thats fine.not a big deal.but, what your saying sounds fine, too.

can you please just shut the fuck up? Youre blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit.

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

divinitus, you seem to be switching from system to system. If it works continue to use it until it doesnt work. Or, try one system out for 6 to 8 weeks and measure up in a way that is tangible. Try the generic bulk routine if it works, but keep an eye on your calories-dont go overboard. You dont need to really make that much of a change just 10 to 20% above maintenance (provided you know the numbers). I have my difference of opinion on what youre trying to accomplish but stick to one thing and do it for set amount of time.

Will do....and thanks again for the input. I will post some pics 4-6 weeks and let you know how everything goes. I am glad I started this thread, while I flip-flopped, it really helped shape my decision, and me being someone who can't make a decision about what DVD to watch sometimes, that is a very big help!!

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

can you please just shut the fuck up? Youre blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit.

My new sig!

danzik17 · 06-19-2009, 11:23 AM

Would need you to post an example of the kind of training that you're thinking of to comment more. An important thing to remember is that you're on a deficit and not a surplus if you're cutting, so your recovery is a bit compromised (so be careful of overtraining!).

Have you read P-Funks book or guides? He has some really good info if you need help setting up basic routines.

gtbmed · 06-19-2009, 12:16 PM

Straight from Lyle's website, I think this is a pretty decent lifting program for those trying to cut:

Quote:

Here is an example of the type of workout that would be appropriate for someone who was already involved in a training program and wanted to do the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook program.

This fits the guidelines described in the book and would be done twice per week.

***
Sample Full Body Exercise Routine

Exercise Sets Reps RI
Squat or leg press 2-3 6-8 2-3’
RDL or leg curl 1-2 6-8 2-3’
Bench press or 2-3 6-8 2-3’
Incline DB press
Rowing or chins 2-3 6-8 2-3’
Lateral raise 1-2 8-10 1-2’
Biceps 1-2 8-10 1-2’
Triceps 1-2 8-10 1-2’
Weighted crunch 1-2 6-8 1-2’
Back extension 1-2 6-8 1-2’

RI = rest intervals and the values are in minutes.

Sample Intermediate Workout for RFL plan - BodyRecomposition Support Forums

diablomex · 06-19-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

can you please just shut the fuck up? Youre blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit.

what a grown up.how old are you,10.

diablomex · 06-19-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

can you please just shut the fuck up? Youre blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit.

big man, with such Intelligent language.what are we on,on some teen forum.

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 01:03 PM

Thanks alot for this...This is actually similar to what I was envisioning, only breaking it in half so I am doing this amount of work, but over 4 trips to the gym instead of 2. I know it sounds backwards, but going to the gym 4 times will help me out, as long as I stick to the above workload and not go crazy. I also don't play hoops much in the summer, which I think will also help my recovery as during the winter I play 3-4 times per week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtbmed

Straight from Lyle's website, I think this is a pretty decent lifting program for those trying to cut:

Sample Intermediate Workout for RFL plan - BodyRecomposition Support Forums

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablomex

big man, with such Intelligent language.what are we on,on some teen forum.

hey fucknuts. Get off the thread. You're boring the shit out of me.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diablomex

big man, with such Intelligent language.what are we on,on some teen forum.

ahh I see. you're from Alabama.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVINITUS

Thanks alot for this...This is actually similar to what I was envisioning, only breaking it in half so I am doing this amount of work, but over 4 trips to the gym instead of 2. I know it sounds backwards, but going to the gym 4 times will help me out, as long as I stick to the above workload and not go crazy. I also don't play hoops much in the summer, which I think will also help my recovery as during the winter I play 3-4 times per week.

So really, what you want to do is a full body workout? Not a bad idea. I'd only go three times during the week. Or, break it in half, lower one day, upper the next, and a full body like the one in the PSMF, surrounded with nothing but compoud work.

diablomex · 06-19-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

hey fucknuts. Get off the thread. You're boring the shit out of me.

diablomex · 06-19-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

ahh I see. you're from Alabama.

live in alabama, im from L.A.,california.

gtbmed · 06-19-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVINITUS

Thanks alot for this...This is actually similar to what I was envisioning, only breaking it in half so I am doing this amount of work, but over 4 trips to the gym instead of 2. I know it sounds backwards, but going to the gym 4 times will help me out, as long as I stick to the above workload and not go crazy. I also don't play hoops much in the summer, which I think will also help my recovery as during the winter I play 3-4 times per week.

Changing the frequency should be fine as long as you are keeping the volume the same (i.e. if you do more than 2 of this style workout per week, drop the volume per workout to make sure you're getting in the same number of repetitions per week).

Post the way you want to split it up, maybe we can help.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVINITUS

Will do....and thanks again for the input. I will post some pics 4-6 weeks and let you know how everything goes. I am glad I started this thread, while I flip-flopped, it really helped shape my decision, and me being someone who can't make a decision about what DVD to watch sometimes, that is a very big help!!

Good luck

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 04:45 PM

Okay, let me see if I got this right. Juggernaut, if I take the cutting routine from above, which was a full body workout 2x a week, and stretch it over let's say, Mon-Wed-Fri, then I would be doing one half of the above workout on Mon, the remainder on Wed and then the entire thing on Friday?

To the other poster who asked to post what I was thinking. Here is what I was thinking about for a 4 day cutting routine:

Mon-

Squat 2-3 x 5-8 reps
SLDL 2-3 x 5-8
Leg Press 1-2 x 6-8
WeightedCrunches 2-3 8-10

Tuesday-

Flat Bench 2-3 x 6-8
T-Bar Rows 2-3 x 6-8
DB Shoulder Press 2-3 x 6-8
Weighted Chins 2-3 x 6-8
Dips 2-3 x 6-8
BB Curls 1-2 x 8-10

Wed-OFF

Thursday-

Deadlift 2-3 x 6-8
Lunge 2-3 x 6-8
Good mornings 2-3 x 8-10
Another Abs exercise 1-2 x 8-10

Friday

Incline Bench 2-3 x 6-8
Seated Rows 2-3 x 6-8
Lateral Raises 1-2 x 8-10
Lat Pulldown 1-2 x 6-8
Rope pulldowns 1-2 x 8-10
Hammer Curls 1-2 x 8-10

Is this okay? Too much work?

**P-funk** · 06-19-2009, 04:47 PM

Maybe it is just me, but I am a minimalist. I think people spend entirely to much time doing meaningless crap in the gym.

Why are there so many upper body exercises? Why waste your time with so much stuff? Just pick 2 or 3 exercises and go hard and then get out.

patrick

DIVINITUS · 06-19-2009, 04:53 PM

P-Funk....if settling on 3 exercises, would I still keep it at 3 sets per exercise at that point?

**P-funk** · 06-19-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVINITUS

P-Funk....if settling on 3 exercises, would I still keep it at 3 sets per exercise at that point?

Depends on the intensity, the goal, etc....

The main thing (if you read that three part series that I wrote on how to set up a training program using 4-week blocks I go over this) is that the program needs to reflect the goals.

To often people have programs that are just a bunch of stuff thrown together and have very little to do with the goals they are looking to achieve. Look at each exercise in the program, every set and rep range, etc..and ask yourself "why am i doing this and what purpose does it serve for what I hope to get out of it?" most of the time we just have "stuff" in our training program for free of, "if we don't do "this" or "x,y,and z" we will not be hitting the muscles properly and we will get small." Which is totally silly and usually just pushed by bodybuilding nonsense.

patrick

danzik17 · 06-19-2009, 05:56 PM

What funk said.

My current routine is a pretty basic one.

A. Lower Pull, Upper Vertical Push
B. Lower Push, Upper Vertical Pull
C. Lower Pull, Upper Horizontal Push
D. Lower Push, Upper Horizontal Pull

Week 1: ABA
Week 2: CDC

Pretty basic, just playing with my exercise grouping to see how I fare if I group upper movement planes together instead of just upper movement types.

Something like that might suit you well, it doesn't need to be super complex.

juggernaut · 06-19-2009, 05:56 PM

DV, buy Patrick's book. It gives a better insight to what he is referring to, and will espouse the easiest way to minimally but very effectively hit all the areas needed in the quickest amount of time. It's really a great buy and a lot better than the shitmags ideas of a routine.

DIVINITUS · 06-20-2009, 07:34 AM

I will look into that, and in the meantime I will try what I listed above, but really focus on the basic, compound stuff as p-funk suggested and only pick 3 exercises for each day I lift.

06-18-2009, 07:58 PM	#34
DIVINITUS It's a deep burn... Join Date: May 2003 Location: Homebase somewhere in MA Posts: 182	Also...Juggernaut, I was going to use Lyle's generic bulk routine, but if cutting how should I train? I know I should keep the weights high, but what about knocking a set off most of the exercises in that routine? I like the 4 day split, now that I started it this week. UD2.0 is not an option for me at this time, due to my work schedule for the immediate future. I looked at Built's spread sheets and the schedule of training just isn't possible for me right now as I flip flop from nights to days and back again at work and my schedule changes from week to week. When leaning out, I had very good experiences with the Intermittent Fasting approach talked about on Patrick D's blog and even mentioned by Lyle on his site. Thoughts? "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit " Juggernaut

06-19-2009, 11:23 AM	#42
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	Would need you to post an example of the kind of training that you're thinking of to comment more. An important thing to remember is that you're on a deficit and not a surplus if you're cutting, so your recovery is a bit compromised (so be careful of overtraining!). Have you read P-Funks book or guides? He has some really good info if you need help setting up basic routines. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

06-19-2009, 04:45 PM	#54
DIVINITUS It's a deep burn... Join Date: May 2003 Location: Homebase somewhere in MA Posts: 182	Okay, let me see if I got this right. Juggernaut, if I take the cutting routine from above, which was a full body workout 2x a week, and stretch it over let's say, Mon-Wed-Fri, then I would be doing one half of the above workout on Mon, the remainder on Wed and then the entire thing on Friday? To the other poster who asked to post what I was thinking. Here is what I was thinking about for a 4 day cutting routine: Mon- Squat 2-3 x 5-8 reps SLDL 2-3 x 5-8 Leg Press 1-2 x 6-8 WeightedCrunches 2-3 8-10 Tuesday- Flat Bench 2-3 x 6-8 T-Bar Rows 2-3 x 6-8 DB Shoulder Press 2-3 x 6-8 Weighted Chins 2-3 x 6-8 Dips 2-3 x 6-8 BB Curls 1-2 x 8-10 Wed-OFF Thursday- Deadlift 2-3 x 6-8 Lunge 2-3 x 6-8 Good mornings 2-3 x 8-10 Another Abs exercise 1-2 x 8-10 Friday Incline Bench 2-3 x 6-8 Seated Rows 2-3 x 6-8 Lateral Raises 1-2 x 8-10 Lat Pulldown 1-2 x 6-8 Rope pulldowns 1-2 x 8-10 Hammer Curls 1-2 x 8-10 Is this okay? Too much work? "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit " Juggernaut

06-19-2009, 04:47 PM	#55
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	Maybe it is just me, but I am a minimalist. I think people spend entirely to much time doing meaningless crap in the gym. Why are there so many upper body exercises? Why waste your time with so much stuff? Just pick 2 or 3 exercises and go hard and then get out. patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-19-2009, 04:53 PM	#56
DIVINITUS It's a deep burn... Join Date: May 2003 Location: Homebase somewhere in MA Posts: 182	P-Funk....if settling on 3 exercises, would I still keep it at 3 sets per exercise at that point? "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit " Juggernaut

06-19-2009, 06:25 AM	#38
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	divinitus, you seem to be switching from system to system. If it works continue to use it until it doesnt work. Or, try one system out for 6 to 8 weeks and measure up in a way that is tangible. Try the generic bulk routine if it works, but keep an eye on your calories-dont go overboard. You dont need to really make that much of a change just 10 to 20% above maintenance (provided you know the numbers). I have my difference of opinion on what youre trying to accomplish but stick to one thing and do it for set amount of time.

06-19-2009, 05:56 PM	#58
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	What funk said. My current routine is a pretty basic one. A. Lower Pull, Upper Vertical Push B. Lower Push, Upper Vertical Pull C. Lower Pull, Upper Horizontal Push D. Lower Push, Upper Horizontal Pull Week 1: ABA Week 2: CDC Pretty basic, just playing with my exercise grouping to see how I fare if I group upper movement planes together instead of just upper movement types. Something like that might suit you well, it doesn't need to be super complex. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

06-20-2009, 07:34 AM	#60
DIVINITUS It's a deep burn... Join Date: May 2003 Location: Homebase somewhere in MA Posts: 182	I will look into that, and in the meantime I will try what I listed above, but really focus on the basic, compound stuff as p-funk suggested and only pick 3 exercises for each day I lift. "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit " Juggernaut

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