Low reps VS high reps

SpikyHedgehog · 06-18-2009, 12:20 PM

I know this topic has probably been discussed and discussed again but it's a generally known fact that in order to gain muscle mass you need to lift low reps, heavy weight right?
(I know nutrition and rest are important too, but lets keep it out of consideration for now)

Well, here is my story: I practiced karate for 4 years. It was intense... lots of kicking, lots of fighting (with adequate protection), lots of excercices with no extra weight included. I gained approximately 19lbs of muscle mass in 2 years... and I never lifted one single dumbell or barbell and never used any fitness device.

I had to stop doing karate for various reasons and then I decided to hit the weights because I liked the fact that I looked more bulky than I used to (I'm still not the hulk though.... far from it). I went to the gym for 1 year, twice per week and I barely gained anything. This while there was a professional trainer at the gym who gave me a program and monitored my progress. I gained maybe what... 5 lbs in that whole year?

After that I gave up on the gym and started doing bodyweight excercices, once a week at home: pull ups, chin ups, dips, squats, calf raises. And I started gaining again. Not much, but defenitely more than in the gym. And I did them high rep without wearing extra weight.

Could it be that some people just build mass differently? I'm the kind of skinny, speedy guy. I'm not a bulky powerhouse. I can punch something real hard with one burst of power, but don't ask me to carry something really heavy for a long time.
Is there an explanation for this? Is muscle growth triggered differently in some people?

eppagala · 06-18-2009, 01:44 PM

We all are different. For example some people are super smart, some people are smart, and some people are only lazy but the are also smart.

In weight training, there are also differences. Some do high reps to gain mass, and some do low reps high weight to gain mass.

Remember, something might work for you and that thing might not work for me. because we are different.

i am not an english speaker sorry. correct mif possible. i want to learn too.
sorry.

Rookeek · 06-18-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikyHedgehog

I know this topic has probably been discussed and discussed again but it's a generally known fact that in order to gain muscle mass you need to lift low reps, heavy weight right?
(I know nutrition and rest are important too, but lets keep it out of consideration for now)

Well, here is my story: I practiced karate for 4 years. It was intense... lots of kicking, lots of fighting (with adequate protection), lots of excercices with no extra weight included. I gained approximately 19lbs of muscle mass in 2 years... and I never lifted one single dumbell or barbell and never used any fitness device.

I had to stop doing karate for various reasons and then I decided to hit the weights because I liked the fact that I looked more bulky than I used to (I'm still not the hulk though.... far from it). I went to the gym for 1 year, twice per week and I barely gained anything. This while there was a professional trainer at the gym who gave me a program and monitored my progress. I gained maybe what... 5 lbs in that whole year?

After that I gave up on the gym and started doing bodyweight excercices, once a week at home: pull ups, chin ups, dips, squats, calf raises. And I started gaining again. Not much, but defenitely more than in the gym. And I did them high rep without wearing extra weight.

Could it be that some people just build mass differently? I'm the kind of skinny, speedy guy. I'm not a bulky powerhouse. I can punch something real hard with one burst of power, but don't ask me to carry something really heavy for a long time.
Is there an explanation for this? Is muscle growth triggered differently in some people?

Simple, you ate less when you lifted... I'm skinny too, been all my life this way. But with lifting I already gained 22lbs in 1,5 years..not too much but if I had proper nutrition all of that time I'd be at 30+ lbs now..

Give more details on your training when you lifted weights, maybe you did something wrong.. most likely you didn't eat enough...

**Gazhole** · 06-18-2009, 03:02 PM

You can gain weight doing anything so long as you are eating enough.

My guess would be that when you were in the gym the trainer was getting you to train too much, too often, and because of this you were undercutting your recovery ability. Possibly because you were using too many calories.

When you started doing your own thing again, you were training less so were burning less calories, so there was more energy there to make you grow.

The key - do weights, but eat more.

**Built** · 06-20-2009, 12:40 PM

The other possibility is that when he did martial arts, he overstimulated appetite and thus ate MORE. When he reduced his training volume and lifted weights, his appetite backed down too far and he barely gained.

SpikyHedgehog, you weren't tracking your intake during this period, were you? Perhaps try that now that you're gaining, and when you stop making gains (which you will, because beyond a certain point there will be no way to add intensity and resistance to your bodyweight workouts) and add in a few days a week of weights, you'll know what to do.

As a segue, perhaps train bodyweight twice a week and heavy weights twice a week, see what that does. Might be a nice way to train.

SpikyHedgehog · 06-26-2009, 11:15 AM

Yeah you're right I never really kept track of my diet. I have a fast metabolism so I basically made sure I ate enough protein and carbs but that's it. I didn't keep a journal or something.
I should watch it now... swimming a lot or doing a lot of reps does make me feel more hungry afterwards. Maybe that's an explanation too. It's not gonna be easy to keep track on my weight gains though... I noticed I gain a lot of strength, but I gain muscle sloooowly. Back when I did martial arts most bulky guys did comment on how it striked them I was looking rather skinny but packed a lot of fast power.

DanK · 06-26-2009, 02:15 PM

If you did much grappling in karate class that would go a long way towards building muscle.

Leviathan · 06-27-2009, 11:45 PM

Any physical activity, whether strenuous or light should tear muscle. Now, a repetition is exactly as what it is colloquialistically as it is defined in the dictionary; an organized repeat. I'd assume the activities you perform in your Martial Arts session contains some form of lifting or excessive use of muscle strength or tension; and as you are not isolating a muscle but rather compounding by using several joints and several muscles to perform whatever you must.

You probably gained more weight because your body was replacing several muscles' tissue at a given time. I'm not sure whether I'm correct or incorrect, but it is a theory.

**Built** · 06-28-2009, 12:01 AM

He gained weight for exactly one reason: he ate more food than he required.

Just like how everybody else gains weight.

Leviathan · 06-28-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

He gained weight for exactly one reason: he ate more food than he required.

Just like how everybody else gains weight.

Ah, I was in the context of speaking strictly on muscle; oh, and built, I acquired Lyle's book and read up on it. As you asked I should PM you soon.

powerlifter316 · 06-29-2009, 03:31 PM

Whatever gets you the strongest is what works. And that doesn't mean you should follow the faulty "3-5 reps for strength" logic, either. For every exercise, choose whatever rep range allows you to progress every time you perform the movement. For deadlifts, this is probably going to be in the 5-10 reps range or lower, and for curls it might be in the 12-15 range. You might also choose a couple of different rep ranges and work on improving at both. For instance, I usually do a set of 4-6 on the deadlift, and then I do a "down" set of 8-10. I always try to increase weight, reps, or both for each of those sets.

06-18-2009, 12:20 PM	#1
SpikyHedgehog Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 4	Low reps VS high reps I know this topic has probably been discussed and discussed again but it's a generally known fact that in order to gain muscle mass you need to lift low reps, heavy weight right? (I know nutrition and rest are important too, but lets keep it out of consideration for now) Well, here is my story: I practiced karate for 4 years. It was intense... lots of kicking, lots of fighting (with adequate protection), lots of excercices with no extra weight included. I gained approximately 19lbs of muscle mass in 2 years... and I never lifted one single dumbell or barbell and never used any fitness device. I had to stop doing karate for various reasons and then I decided to hit the weights because I liked the fact that I looked more bulky than I used to (I'm still not the hulk though.... far from it). I went to the gym for 1 year, twice per week and I barely gained anything. This while there was a professional trainer at the gym who gave me a program and monitored my progress. I gained maybe what... 5 lbs in that whole year? After that I gave up on the gym and started doing bodyweight excercices, once a week at home: pull ups, chin ups, dips, squats, calf raises. And I started gaining again. Not much, but defenitely more than in the gym. And I did them high rep without wearing extra weight. Could it be that some people just build mass differently? I'm the kind of skinny, speedy guy. I'm not a bulky powerhouse. I can punch something real hard with one burst of power, but don't ask me to carry something really heavy for a long time. Is there an explanation for this? Is muscle growth triggered differently in some people?

06-18-2009, 03:02 PM	#4
Gazhole iwillmakeyousmelltheglove Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 7,999 Photos: 19	You can gain weight doing anything so long as you are eating enough. My guess would be that when you were in the gym the trainer was getting you to train too much, too often, and because of this you were undercutting your recovery ability. Possibly because you were using too many calories. When you started doing your own thing again, you were training less so were burning less calories, so there was more energy there to make you grow. The key - do weights, but eat more. http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 13/11/09 ***READ THIS FOR TRAINING INFO:*** http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/99879-articles-ironmagazineforums-members.html If you want to win the fight, say "I BELIEVE".

06-20-2009, 12:40 PM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,109	The other possibility is that when he did martial arts, he overstimulated appetite and thus ate MORE. When he reduced his training volume and lifted weights, his appetite backed down too far and he barely gained. SpikyHedgehog, you weren't tracking your intake during this period, were you? Perhaps try that now that you're gaining, and when you stop making gains (which you will, because beyond a certain point there will be no way to add intensity and resistance to your bodyweight workouts) and add in a few days a week of weights, you'll know what to do. As a segue, perhaps train bodyweight twice a week and heavy weights twice a week, see what that does. Might be a nice way to train. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-28-2009, 12:01 AM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,109	He gained weight for exactly one reason: he ate more food than he required. Just like how everybody else gains weight. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

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06-18-2009, 01:44 PM	#2
eppagala Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	We all are different. For example some people are super smart, some people are smart, and some people are only lazy but the are also smart. In weight training, there are also differences. Some do high reps to gain mass, and some do low reps high weight to gain mass. Remember, something might work for you and that thing might not work for me. because we are different. i am not an english speaker sorry. correct mif possible. i want to learn too. sorry.

06-26-2009, 11:15 AM	#6
SpikyHedgehog Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Europe Posts: 4	Yeah you're right I never really kept track of my diet. I have a fast metabolism so I basically made sure I ate enough protein and carbs but that's it. I didn't keep a journal or something. I should watch it now... swimming a lot or doing a lot of reps does make me feel more hungry afterwards. Maybe that's an explanation too. It's not gonna be easy to keep track on my weight gains though... I noticed I gain a lot of strength, but I gain muscle sloooowly. Back when I did martial arts most bulky guys did comment on how it striked them I was looking rather skinny but packed a lot of fast power.

06-26-2009, 02:15 PM	#7
DanK Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 204	If you did much grappling in karate class that would go a long way towards building muscle.

06-27-2009, 11:45 PM	#8
Leviathan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan, USA. Posts: 20	Any physical activity, whether strenuous or light should tear muscle. Now, a repetition is exactly as what it is colloquialistically as it is defined in the dictionary; an organized repeat. I'd assume the activities you perform in your Martial Arts session contains some form of lifting or excessive use of muscle strength or tension; and as you are not isolating a muscle but rather compounding by using several joints and several muscles to perform whatever you must. You probably gained more weight because your body was replacing several muscles' tissue at a given time. I'm not sure whether I'm correct or incorrect, but it is a theory.

06-29-2009, 03:31 PM	#11
powerlifter316 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 21	Whatever gets you the strongest is what works. And that doesn't mean you should follow the faulty "3-5 reps for strength" logic, either. For every exercise, choose whatever rep range allows you to progress every time you perform the movement. For deadlifts, this is probably going to be in the 5-10 reps range or lower, and for curls it might be in the 12-15 range. You might also choose a couple of different rep ranges and work on improving at both. For instance, I usually do a set of 4-6 on the deadlift, and then I do a "down" set of 8-10. I always try to increase weight, reps, or both for each of those sets.