HIIT and Sleep

gigaplex · 07-07-2009, 01:08 PM

Seeing that the main benefit from HIIT comes AFTER doing HIIT, I wonder if it really makes sense for me to switch from my normal 45 minute run to HIIT since I go to the gym around 8pm. If I go to sleep 3 hours after I get done with HIIT, my metabolism is going to slow and so will I not get HIIT gains during sleep? Or will I get less HIIT gains during sleep? I need to burn about 500 calories from HIIT for it to be worth the switch and right now I'm just not really sure how this works out when doing HIIT at the end of the day.

m11 · 07-07-2009, 06:40 PM

What are your goals? Why do you need to burn 500 calories for 'it to be worth it'?

**Merkaba** · 07-07-2009, 10:49 PM

The purpose of HIIT is not a caloric number its a metabolic target. Have you read the stickies?

gigaplex · 07-07-2009, 11:36 PM

If there is a HIIT sticky, please hook me up with a link. I didn't see one but maybe it is buried in one of those threads??

As for my goal, I have been on a BFFM style "diet" for 7 months, successfully losing fat while maintaining muscle (even gaining some) and want to continue this until I get down to a single digit body fat %. I started at 30% and am now at around 17%. My original goal was to do this by Christmas and I am currently somewhat ahead of schedule.

As for the calorie thing, I am not familiar with the term "metabolic target" and am not sure where I can find a definition for that. Does this mean aiming for a higher basal metabolic rate? That is what I had thought HIIT was for. This would in effect burn more calories over the course of a day although you would be burning most of them at rest rather than during the workout.

I am currently burning 500 cals in my cardio workout and so wanted to at least match this with HIIT. Although I may do the same percentage caloric deficit with or without cardio, that same percentage deficit will obviously be more when cardio is a part of my routine since my TDEE will be higher. And a deficit of more calories means I will lose more fat. So this is my current reason for doing cardio. If HIIT can't burn an extra 500 cals in a day for me, then it doesn't seem like an activity that aligns with my goals.

maokoto · 07-08-2009, 06:36 AM

I had read articles about HIIT, but never seen a number on how many calories it would burn.

I guess the best you can do is to give it a shoot. Switch to it and record your progress over 3 weeks or so. Then you decide if it works for you or not.

m11 · 07-08-2009, 06:42 AM

Do HIIT.

Here's some information:

Got Built? » How to do Cardio if you MUST!

gigaplex · 07-08-2009, 01:22 PM

I have got through about half of the linked article so far but really it has left me with more questions! A lot of good info though :-)

In one part it says:
"Ideally, do it either on its own day, or on a leg day at least 6-8 hours away from your workout."

Then it says:
"Doing HIIT on upper body days may compromise recovery since your legs will have less time to rest."

I was planning on doing HIIT on tuesdays and thursdays and doing my weight lifting on mon, wed, fri. I do full body workouts. This means I have no rest days at all (except for weekend). I am not going to do two workouts in one day so I'm not really sure how to fit all this together. Wouldn't it be bad for me to be working my legs like this everyday? Would this actually end up being more detrimental?

The only way for HIIT to be a better option for me is if I actually gain more muscle on this cut since I am already gaining muscle despite the calorie deficit. OR if HIIT burns more calories overall, that would be better too. So if I am just destroying leg muscle by overtraining, that will make me worse off.

gtbmed · 07-08-2009, 01:34 PM

If you're gaining muscle, you don't have a caloric deficit and you're not on a "cut".

gigaplex · 07-08-2009, 04:55 PM

I'm afraid that is incorrect. I AM at a deficit and I AM building muscle. My body is actually converting existing fat into muscle. Building muscle is not my primary intention here - it is rather a nice added benefit. My thought was that HIIT may maximize that benefit even more than my current steady state cardio + weight lifting scheme is.

I am really not asking complicated questions here. If nobody knows then nobody knows - that's okay.

m11 · 07-08-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigaplex

I'm afraid that is incorrect. I AM at a deficit and I AM building muscle. My body is actually converting existing fat into muscle.

gtbmed is correct. What you are describing is not occuring.

gigaplex · 07-08-2009, 08:38 PM

I started at a weight of 225 with body fat at 29.31%. I am now at a weight of 199.2 with a body fat of 16.4%. Do the math. I gained muscle mass. I have been at a deficit this whole time. I can friggin see and feel the muscle. It is not imaginary muscle.

You are both wrong.

I am new to the forum so can't post a link but google "is it possible to gain muscle on a deficit venuto" and click the second link to see Tom Venuto explaining the phenomenon.

Since I am zig-zagging and new to lifting weights, I definitely fall in the category he lists.

danzik17 · 07-08-2009, 09:33 PM

You're both right.

In an experienced lifter, it's generally accepted that you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

In a newbie lifter, you can see amazing results in a short period of time almost regardless of nutrition (as long as it's not retarded) due to the completely untrained state you're in. Enjoy the newbie period, it only happens once.

gigaplex · 07-08-2009, 10:35 PM

A Ron Paul fan? I must be at the right forum

Yes, I am enjoying the newbie period

At this point I'm going to guess no one knows the answer to any of my questions? I will keep looking and post back here if I do find an answer. I do appreciate everyone trying to help :-)

gtbmed · 07-09-2009, 03:21 AM

I don't think switching from steady-state cardio to HIIT will help you increase your muscle mass. Long-term, you won't be building muscle while in a deficit anyway. For an untrained newbie, you could probably do almost anything and see gains in LBM, so it's hard to say how your body will react to the different cardio IMO. General training rules/axioms don't always apply to newbies.

I will say that doing HIIT probably has more relevant benefits than doing aerobic, steady-state cardio. Unless you are a distance athlete or want to compete in distance events, I think HIIT should be preferred over steady-state cardio.

DIVINITUS · 07-09-2009, 07:27 PM

[quote=gigaplex;1911922]Building muscle is not my primary intention here - it is rather a nice added benefit. QUOTE]

Just a question...why do you weight train?

gigaplex · 07-09-2009, 11:26 PM

DIVINITUS,
Good question. It is important to weight train when on a fat loss program because you retain more muscle that way. In addition to looking good, the more muscle you have, the higher your metabolism will be so losing muscle will sabotage your fat loss results to some degree.

Additionally, the weight training itself will boost your metabolism. A higher metabolism brings many advantages to the table. One advantage is that if you are using more calories, you can get away with a bigger calorie deficit.

I could go on but this seems like enough reason :-)

07-07-2009, 01:08 PM	#1
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	HIIT and Sleep Seeing that the main benefit from HIIT comes AFTER doing HIIT, I wonder if it really makes sense for me to switch from my normal 45 minute run to HIIT since I go to the gym around 8pm. If I go to sleep 3 hours after I get done with HIIT, my metabolism is going to slow and so will I not get HIIT gains during sleep? Or will I get less HIIT gains during sleep? I need to burn about 500 calories from HIIT for it to be worth the switch and right now I'm just not really sure how this works out when doing HIIT at the end of the day.

07-07-2009, 06:40 PM	#2
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	What are your goals? Why do you need to burn 500 calories for 'it to be worth it'? Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

07-07-2009, 10:49 PM	#3
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	The purpose of HIIT is not a caloric number its a metabolic target. Have you read the stickies? Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

07-08-2009, 06:36 AM	#5
maokoto Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 13	I had read articles about HIIT, but never seen a number on how many calories it would burn. I guess the best you can do is to give it a shoot. Switch to it and record your progress over 3 weeks or so. Then you decide if it works for you or not. My blog: Stronger than Iron Bodybuilding blog

07-08-2009, 06:42 AM	#6
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Do HIIT. Here's some information: Got Built? » How to do Cardio if you MUST! Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

07-07-2009, 11:36 PM	#4
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	If there is a HIIT sticky, please hook me up with a link. I didn't see one but maybe it is buried in one of those threads?? As for my goal, I have been on a BFFM style "diet" for 7 months, successfully losing fat while maintaining muscle (even gaining some) and want to continue this until I get down to a single digit body fat %. I started at 30% and am now at around 17%. My original goal was to do this by Christmas and I am currently somewhat ahead of schedule. As for the calorie thing, I am not familiar with the term "metabolic target" and am not sure where I can find a definition for that. Does this mean aiming for a higher basal metabolic rate? That is what I had thought HIIT was for. This would in effect burn more calories over the course of a day although you would be burning most of them at rest rather than during the workout. I am currently burning 500 cals in my cardio workout and so wanted to at least match this with HIIT. Although I may do the same percentage caloric deficit with or without cardio, that same percentage deficit will obviously be more when cardio is a part of my routine since my TDEE will be higher. And a deficit of more calories means I will lose more fat. So this is my current reason for doing cardio. If HIIT can't burn an extra 500 cals in a day for me, then it doesn't seem like an activity that aligns with my goals.

07-08-2009, 01:22 PM	#7
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	I have got through about half of the linked article so far but really it has left me with more questions! A lot of good info though :-) In one part it says: "Ideally, do it either on its own day, or on a leg day at least 6-8 hours away from your workout." Then it says: "Doing HIIT on upper body days may compromise recovery since your legs will have less time to rest." I was planning on doing HIIT on tuesdays and thursdays and doing my weight lifting on mon, wed, fri. I do full body workouts. This means I have no rest days at all (except for weekend). I am not going to do two workouts in one day so I'm not really sure how to fit all this together. Wouldn't it be bad for me to be working my legs like this everyday? Would this actually end up being more detrimental? The only way for HIIT to be a better option for me is if I actually gain more muscle on this cut since I am already gaining muscle despite the calorie deficit. OR if HIIT burns more calories overall, that would be better too. So if I am just destroying leg muscle by overtraining, that will make me worse off.

07-08-2009, 01:34 PM	#8
gtbmed Greg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 370	If you're gaining muscle, you don't have a caloric deficit and you're not on a "cut". gtbmed's strength journal

07-08-2009, 04:55 PM	#9
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	I'm afraid that is incorrect. I AM at a deficit and I AM building muscle. My body is actually converting existing fat into muscle. Building muscle is not my primary intention here - it is rather a nice added benefit. My thought was that HIIT may maximize that benefit even more than my current steady state cardio + weight lifting scheme is. I am really not asking complicated questions here. If nobody knows then nobody knows - that's okay.

07-08-2009, 08:38 PM	#11
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	I started at a weight of 225 with body fat at 29.31%. I am now at a weight of 199.2 with a body fat of 16.4%. Do the math. I gained muscle mass. I have been at a deficit this whole time. I can friggin see and feel the muscle. It is not imaginary muscle. You are both wrong. I am new to the forum so can't post a link but google "is it possible to gain muscle on a deficit venuto" and click the second link to see Tom Venuto explaining the phenomenon. Since I am zig-zagging and new to lifting weights, I definitely fall in the category he lists.

07-08-2009, 09:33 PM	#12
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,073	You're both right. In an experienced lifter, it's generally accepted that you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. In a newbie lifter, you can see amazing results in a short period of time almost regardless of nutrition (as long as it's not retarded) due to the completely untrained state you're in. Enjoy the newbie period, it only happens once. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

07-08-2009, 10:35 PM	#13
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	A Ron Paul fan? I must be at the right forum Yes, I am enjoying the newbie period At this point I'm going to guess no one knows the answer to any of my questions? I will keep looking and post back here if I do find an answer. I do appreciate everyone trying to help :-)

07-09-2009, 03:21 AM	#14
gtbmed Greg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 370	I don't think switching from steady-state cardio to HIIT will help you increase your muscle mass. Long-term, you won't be building muscle while in a deficit anyway. For an untrained newbie, you could probably do almost anything and see gains in LBM, so it's hard to say how your body will react to the different cardio IMO. General training rules/axioms don't always apply to newbies. I will say that doing HIIT probably has more relevant benefits than doing aerobic, steady-state cardio. Unless you are a distance athlete or want to compete in distance events, I think HIIT should be preferred over steady-state cardio. gtbmed's strength journal

07-09-2009, 07:27 PM	#15
DIVINITUS It's a deep burn... Join Date: May 2003 Location: Homebase somewhere in MA Posts: 182	[quote=gigaplex;1911922]Building muscle is not my primary intention here - it is rather a nice added benefit. QUOTE] Just a question...why do you weight train? "Can you please just shut the fuck up? You're blocking what could otherwise be a good thread discussion. No one cares about your shit " Juggernaut

07-09-2009, 11:26 PM	#16
gigaplex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 60	DIVINITUS, Good question. It is important to weight train when on a fat loss program because you retain more muscle that way. In addition to looking good, the more muscle you have, the higher your metabolism will be so losing muscle will sabotage your fat loss results to some degree. Additionally, the weight training itself will boost your metabolism. A higher metabolism brings many advantages to the table. One advantage is that if you are using more calories, you can get away with a bigger calorie deficit. I could go on but this seems like enough reason :-)

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