Two questions

Eugene · 10-10-2009, 06:52 AM

Hi, I have two questions:

1.
In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this:

some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
some abs exercise
another abs exercise

When I am training like that, after the first abs exercise I am totally wasted, and I just can't do another abs exercise. So do you think I can do this instead?

some abs exercise
some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
another abs exercise

2.

Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest?

Thanks.

m11 · 10-10-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this:

some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
some abs exercise
another abs exercise

Most will disagree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest?

There may be a bigger underlying issue that is causing your fatigue. You may want to re-evaluate your preworkout nutrition (and probably your overall nutrition) as well as your training program.

But aside from that, rest as needed and feel free to sip your shake as you train.

m11 · 10-10-2009, 07:14 AM

Speaking of training programs, how is that Lee Hayward program coming along?

rahaas · 10-10-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

Hi, I have two questions:

1.
In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this:

some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
some abs exercise
another abs exercise

When I am training like that, after the first abs exercise I am totally wasted, and I just can't do another abs exercise. So do you think I can do this instead?

some abs exercise
some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
another abs exercise

2.

Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest?

Thanks.

Many routines totally suck.
Why do all of that when you can focus mainly on upper & lower compound movements that do so much more?

I agree with M11 on the preworkout nutrition.

Ben dur · 10-10-2009, 10:45 AM

i dont even do "ab" work

Eugene · 10-10-2009, 11:39 AM

M11 thanks for answer my questions.
However I need an explanation about why most people will disagree with me about splitting the abs exercises. What's wrong with starting with abs, and ending with abs?

Regarding Lee Hayward training, it goes very well, I'm definitely getting bigger. However I only started training, so every program will have significant results.

Eugene · 10-10-2009, 11:42 AM

Again, let me put this question more clearly. Is it a good practice to train a muscle with one exercise, then train some other muscles, and then train the first muscle again with another exercise?

**Built** · 10-10-2009, 12:22 PM

How about you post exactly what you are doing, movements, rep range, weight used, pre and post workout nutrition, and ask us what to change?

Eugene · 10-10-2009, 02:46 PM

Thank you for your motivation to help, however I would like to know an answer to a more general question, unrelated to my current training program.

I am just trying to understand why Lee Hayward decided to put 2 abs exercises together, when it is clearly easier to have an abs exercise at the beginning, and another at the end. What do you think was his reason?

Also I hope this topic won't become a debate about the advantages and disadvantages of Lee Hayward's program. I just want to know why the abs exercises are together and not apart.

Thank you.

**Built** · 10-10-2009, 02:57 PM

Dunno why he used two ab exercises, dunno why he suggests ab work at all, dunno which two these are or which rep ranges for that matter.

I can tell you that it's not generally advisable to do ab work before you do the rest of your workout; you need your core fresh for squats, deads, cleans...

Eugene · 10-10-2009, 03:03 PM

Ok then I understand. He suggested 2 abs at the end because he didn't want to suggest an abs at the beginning, because you need the abs for some exercises later.

Thank you.

**Built** · 10-10-2009, 03:08 PM

Glad that helped.

Sometimes exercise order matters. Sometimes it doesn't.

For example, I often tuck in a bit of bicep work on the day I do squats. I do it before or after, doesn't tax me much to train legs after arms.

But if you train arms with back, your back work will suffer if you do heavy curls first, right?

Hoglander · 10-10-2009, 11:44 PM

I really think with the pussy ab/core work "weight" trainers do it's fine to do them whenever.

What the HELL happened to the training of opposite body parts equally where abs are concerned? Should we all deadlift heavy weights and do reps of 30 for abs with no added weight?

I train for health. Which includes VERY HEAVY weighted core work. Maybe I'm ahead of my time. Maybe back health just means.... pussy (or no) core work as well as lifting belts for squats and deads.

Good luck all

**Built** · 10-11-2009, 12:48 AM

Hey, don't point that finger at me! I do weighted crunches over a BOSU ball with a 70-lb dumbbell on my chest.

SkinsFan21 · 10-11-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

Hi, I have two questions:

1.
In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this:

some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
some abs exercise
another abs exercise

When I am training like that, after the first abs exercise I am totally wasted, and I just can't do another abs exercise. So do you think I can do this instead?

some abs exercise
some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
another abs exercise

2.

Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest?

Thanks.

Hello. I did not read the other posts, but ill tell you your program needs work.
You should be spliting by movments not body parts.
Do some more searching for your question.
If you need more help PM me and ill help you.

Ben dur · 10-11-2009, 01:03 AM

i can deadlift over 400lbs with no straps, no belt, and no other special equipment

i can deadlift my weight for a pretty high amount of reps ~20

i cannot however crunch my weight a single time.. i can however hold a plank for over a minute...

your abs are not designed to do the same kind of work your back is

nor is it designed to do the same kind of work your legs do

so dealifting 400lbs does not translate into any kind of crunch
and sprinting 400 meters in 60 seconds does not translate to doing any special number of crunches...

i know its hard for endurance athletes to comprehend that doing 300 crunches doesnt make sense

i know alot of bodybuilders dont understand that doing 10 weighted crunches doesnt make much sense either

but in my opinion, and from the research i have done, some muscle groups need to be trained differently than others...

if you want strong abs and a stable core
i would suggest subtracting some stabilizing equipment from some of your lifts and putting more emphasis on using your core to stabilize

like for instance standing shoulder press, or ball press instead of bench press

single leg squats and deads

knee raises and kipping pullups

L set pullups
L set dips

these are not the conventional crunch variation ab workouts you typically hear about, but they are more practical...

i mean seriously, how much good is doing a crunch going to do for your athletic ability, or your ability to stabilize your spine under load?

what are your abdominal actually bio engineered to do?
(stabilize the spine under load, add power to the hip flexor, and increase power and speed in "crossover" -the speed at witch a sprinter can bring the knee up and back into position for the "power stroke"-, and finally to contract the upper body off the ground or another surface)
and in my opinion IN THAT ORDER

crunching has its place dont get me wrong, but it should not be the foundation of your core work...

Ben dur · 10-11-2009, 01:11 AM

and to help with your questions in the initial post

many of these core stability exercises overlap with some things your probably already doing...

its just a matter of transitioning into these types of lifts over the stereotypical bench press, lat pull down, seated military press etc.

SkinsFan21 · 10-11-2009, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

Hi, I have two questions:

1.
In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this:

some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
some abs exercise
another abs exercise

When I am training like that, after the first abs exercise I am totally wasted, and I just can't do another abs exercise. So do you think I can do this instead?

some abs exercise
some chest exercise
some biceps exercise
some triceps exercise
another abs exercise

2.

Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest?

Thanks.

OK. I respect the other answers on this question. But what we really need to know is what are your goals? Do you wanna get bigger, stronger, or cut what is really goin on here? From what you have told us, all I know is you have a pretty bad tranning program. PM me if you want some solid advice on what I would do.

**Gazhole** · 10-11-2009, 06:29 AM

I think people try to put a square peg in a round hole with core training. If you want stability, train your core by keeping it stable - planks, supermans, side planks, V-sits, L-sits, heavy overhead press, squats, deadlifts...

stepaukas · 10-11-2009, 08:14 AM

ben dur
thats a good deadlift.. 400# at a bodyweight of 175.
when you did reps with bodyweight, did you stop at 20, or is this all you could do?

Ben dur · 10-11-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

I think people try to put a square peg in a round hole with core training. If you want stability, train your core by keeping it stable - planks, supermans, side planks, V-sits, L-sits, heavy overhead press, squats, deadlifts...

i couldnt agree more

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepaukas

ben dur
thats a good deadlift.. 400# at a bodyweight of 175.
when you did reps with bodyweight, did you stop at 20, or is this all you could do?

i dont know
to be honest i dont know if ive ever done it
i know i can do 225 14 reps and it was more or less just a guess...

if you like i could just find out on about wednesday

10-10-2009, 06:52 AM	#1
Eugene Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Two questions Hi, I have two questions: 1. In many training programs you are supposed to do stuff like this: some chest exercise some biceps exercise some triceps exercise some abs exercise another abs exercise When I am training like that, after the first abs exercise I am totally wasted, and I just can't do another abs exercise. So do you think I can do this instead? some abs exercise some chest exercise some biceps exercise some triceps exercise another abs exercise 2. Sometimes after 40 minutes of workout I feel tired and weak. Can I drink my shake, rest for 10 minutes, and then continue the work out for another 15 minutes, or do I have to complete the entire workout despite feeling week, and only then drink the shake and rest? Thanks.

10-10-2009, 07:14 AM	#3
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Speaking of training programs, how is that Lee Hayward program coming along? Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

10-10-2009, 10:45 AM	#5
Ben dur Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton FL Posts: 1,233 Photos: 6	i dont even do "ab" work 21 5'11" ~175lbs 8% on elec. analyzer

10-10-2009, 12:22 PM	#8
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	How about you post exactly what you are doing, movements, rep range, weight used, pre and post workout nutrition, and ask us what to change? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-10-2009, 02:57 PM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Dunno why he used two ab exercises, dunno why he suggests ab work at all, dunno which two these are or which rep ranges for that matter. I can tell you that it's not generally advisable to do ab work before you do the rest of your workout; you need your core fresh for squats, deads, cleans... Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-10-2009, 11:39 AM	#6
Eugene Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	M11 thanks for answer my questions. However I need an explanation about why most people will disagree with me about splitting the abs exercises. What's wrong with starting with abs, and ending with abs? Regarding Lee Hayward training, it goes very well, I'm definitely getting bigger. However I only started training, so every program will have significant results.

10-10-2009, 11:42 AM	#7
Eugene Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Again, let me put this question more clearly. Is it a good practice to train a muscle with one exercise, then train some other muscles, and then train the first muscle again with another exercise?

10-10-2009, 02:46 PM	#9
Eugene Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Thank you for your motivation to help, however I would like to know an answer to a more general question, unrelated to my current training program. I am just trying to understand why Lee Hayward decided to put 2 abs exercises together, when it is clearly easier to have an abs exercise at the beginning, and another at the end. What do you think was his reason? Also I hope this topic won't become a debate about the advantages and disadvantages of Lee Hayward's program. I just want to know why the abs exercises are together and not apart. Thank you.

10-10-2009, 03:03 PM	#11
Eugene Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Ok then I understand. He suggested 2 abs at the end because he didn't want to suggest an abs at the beginning, because you need the abs for some exercises later. Thank you.

10-10-2009, 03:08 PM	#12
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Glad that helped. Sometimes exercise order matters. Sometimes it doesn't. For example, I often tuck in a bit of bicep work on the day I do squats. I do it before or after, doesn't tax me much to train legs after arms. But if you train arms with back, your back work will suffer if you do heavy curls first, right? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-10-2009, 11:44 PM	#13
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,498 Photos: 10	I really think with the pussy ab/core work "weight" trainers do it's fine to do them whenever. What the HELL happened to the training of opposite body parts equally where abs are concerned? Should we all deadlift heavy weights and do reps of 30 for abs with no added weight? I train for health. Which includes VERY HEAVY weighted core work. Maybe I'm ahead of my time. Maybe back health just means.... pussy (or no) core work as well as lifting belts for squats and deads. Good luck all

10-11-2009, 12:48 AM	#14
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Hey, don't point that finger at me! I do weighted crunches over a BOSU ball with a 70-lb dumbbell on my chest. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-11-2009, 01:03 AM	#16
Ben dur Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton FL Posts: 1,233 Photos: 6	i can deadlift over 400lbs with no straps, no belt, and no other special equipment i can deadlift my weight for a pretty high amount of reps ~20 i cannot however crunch my weight a single time.. i can however hold a plank for over a minute... your abs are not designed to do the same kind of work your back is nor is it designed to do the same kind of work your legs do so dealifting 400lbs does not translate into any kind of crunch and sprinting 400 meters in 60 seconds does not translate to doing any special number of crunches... i know its hard for endurance athletes to comprehend that doing 300 crunches doesnt make sense i know alot of bodybuilders dont understand that doing 10 weighted crunches doesnt make much sense either but in my opinion, and from the research i have done, some muscle groups need to be trained differently than others... if you want strong abs and a stable core i would suggest subtracting some stabilizing equipment from some of your lifts and putting more emphasis on using your core to stabilize like for instance standing shoulder press, or ball press instead of bench press single leg squats and deads knee raises and kipping pullups L set pullups L set dips these are not the conventional crunch variation ab workouts you typically hear about, but they are more practical... i mean seriously, how much good is doing a crunch going to do for your athletic ability, or your ability to stabilize your spine under load? what are your abdominal actually bio engineered to do? (stabilize the spine under load, add power to the hip flexor, and increase power and speed in "crossover" -the speed at witch a sprinter can bring the knee up and back into position for the "power stroke"-, and finally to contract the upper body off the ground or another surface) and in my opinion IN THAT ORDER crunching has its place dont get me wrong, but it should not be the foundation of your core work... 21 5'11" ~175lbs 8% on elec. analyzer

10-11-2009, 01:11 AM	#17
Ben dur Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton FL Posts: 1,233 Photos: 6	and to help with your questions in the initial post many of these core stability exercises overlap with some things your probably already doing... its just a matter of transitioning into these types of lifts over the stereotypical bench press, lat pull down, seated military press etc. 21 5'11" ~175lbs 8% on elec. analyzer

10-11-2009, 06:29 AM	#19
Gazhole iwillmakeyousmelltheglove Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 7,999 Photos: 19	I think people try to put a square peg in a round hole with core training. If you want stability, train your core by keeping it stable - planks, supermans, side planks, V-sits, L-sits, heavy overhead press, squats, deadlifts... http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 13/11/09 ***READ THIS FOR TRAINING INFO:*** http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/99879-articles-ironmagazineforums-members.html If you want to win the fight, say "I BELIEVE".

10-11-2009, 08:14 AM	#20
stepaukas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: missouri Posts: 15	ben dur thats a good deadlift.. 400# at a bodyweight of 175. when you did reps with bodyweight, did you stop at 20, or is this all you could do?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode