Question on managing intensities throughout a workout week

Stewart14 · 10-13-2009, 12:02 PM

OK, I know this is probably major over analysis here, and in the end probably comes down to personal preference, but are there any advantages to splitting up a workout week like this:
day 1
exercise 1 -- high intensity
exercise 2 -- low intensity

day 2
exercise 1 -- low intensity
exercise 2 -- high intensity

versus something like this:

day 1
exercise 1 -- high intensity
exercise 2 -- high intensity

day 2
exercise 1 -- low intensity
exercise 2 -- low intensity

is anything gained by option 1, or is it better to really work hard on one day and have a break on the other?

Cgrant · 10-13-2009, 04:03 PM

Not sure what your goals are, buþ personally, I am cutting, so I make every effort to do high intensity all the time

m11 · 10-13-2009, 04:11 PM

Just my two cents is kinda what you already know. If you'd like, try each method out for few weeks and check your logs to see if there are any differentiation in progress. Additionally, if you do see more progress in one method than the other, it probably still wouldn't be entirely prudent to give full credit to one method or another. However, it'll at least give you something to work with.

VILBAUGH · 10-13-2009, 05:29 PM

what is your definition of intensity? Low intensity is warm up/rehab/prehab and nothing else.

Hoglander · 10-13-2009, 10:52 PM

I think you need to think in body parts for this to work. Since only thinking about the body in upper push, upper pull, lower push, lower pull and bowel movements is allowed you need to define your movements in great detail.

**P-funk** · 10-13-2009, 11:58 PM

Define intensity and how you want to use it.

What are your goals? What is the objective?

"Most peoples highs are to low and their lows are to high"
- Charlie Francis

Low intensity work can be useful for recovery, tempo training, circuits, etc....but their is a specific objective there. So you need to talk more about what you are trying to accomplish.

patrick

Stewart14 · 10-14-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Define intensity and how you want to use it.

What are your goals? What is the objective?

"Most peoples highs are to low and their lows are to high"
- Charlie Francis

Low intensity work can be useful for recovery, tempo training, circuits, etc....but their is a specific objective there. So you need to talk more about what you are trying to accomplish.

patrick

ok, to simplify, when I say high intensity, I am talking about a strength oriented workout, ie, high weight, low reps, and when I say low intenstiy, I am talking about hypertrophy work, ie, lower weight, higher reps.

To be more specific to what I want to accomplish, I want to use the low intensity workouts as a way to take a break from doing heavy weight, low reps all the time. I want to drive my strength numbers up, and the low intensity workout will be just a means to get some reps in after doing mainly low rep stuff and singles.

**P-funk** · 10-14-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

ok, to simplify, when I say high intensity, I am talking about a strength oriented workout, ie, high weight, low reps, and when I say low intenstiy, I am talking about hypertrophy work, ie, lower weight, higher reps.

To be more specific to what I want to accomplish, I want to use the low intensity workouts as a way to take a break from doing heavy weight, low reps all the time. I want to drive my strength numbers up, and the low intensity workout will be just a means to get some reps in after doing mainly low rep stuff and singles.

I think of what you are describing as more medium intensity work. For example:

High = >/= 90%
Med = 75-87.5%
Low = < 75%

Like the Charlie Francis quote above, "Most people's highs are to low and their lows are to high."

Basically, people try and do to much when they are trying to have a low intensity day and end up blowing themselves out of the water. When they get to the high intensity day, they work at a lower intensity then need be to express the adaptatio that they seek.

This can be set up a few ways. One way would be to use undluating peridiozation and have workouts that vary in focus (power, strength, repetition (medium) and thne a default (low intensity) workout for days when you don't feel up to par to doing quality work (strength or power)). You then determine which quality you want to express the most and increase the amount of volume or frequency of that training day over a 2-4 week period, while the other qualities are trained at more stabilizing loads, so as not to lose the adaptations. This works great for some athletes and not so great for others. I find it to work best for athletes that have lots of practice time (team sport athletes) and need to be more flexible with their training depending on their level of fatigue for any given day (in addition, they need to have a variety of qualities enhanced as their sport may be dependant on a variety of demands).

In your case, for strength, you may want to adopt a high/low approach. This basically groups high intensity/high stressful work on one day and low intensity/low stressful work on another day. For example:

Mon - High: Upper power/lower strength
Tues - Low: Upper repetition
Wed - off/tempo work
Thurs - High: Lower Power/Upper Strength
Fri - Low: Lower repetition
Sat - off/tempo work
Sun - off

You need to have a low volume on the high days so that you don't kill yourself.

The same intensities from above will apply here. For exmaple, monday and tuesday may look like this:

Mon:
1) Plyo push up - 3x8

2) Squat - 6x2@90%

3) RDL - 3x6-8 (80-85%)

Tues:
1) DB bench press - 3x10-12 (70-75%)
2) Chin ups - 3x10-12
3) Face pulls - 2x15
4) arms - 2x12-15

Again, don't blow yourself out on the low intensity day (tuesday) by trying to kill it on the rep ranges. Work hard on the high intensity day.

Hope that helps give you some ideas.

patrick

Stewart14 · 10-14-2009, 09:51 AM

thanks p-funk, lots of good stuff as always

so what I got out of your examples is that it is better to do all of your high intensity stuff on one day, and all of the lower intensity stuff on another, as opposed to splitting it up on each day?

I will use what I am currently doing for a better example. I am playing around with cluster reps right now for my workouts. I have it broken down into simple push/pull split. I was using cluster reps at every workout. I thought it might be a good idea to not do this every workout, and so I thought of doing a low intensity day using the same exercises, just using 80% of what I used on the last day of cluster reps.

For example, I did trap bar deads last session for cluster reps with 350 pounds, so yesterday, I decided to do 3x8 with 80% of that or 270 for a low intensity day. It was pretty easy, challenging, but nothing too hard. Then next time I do this exercise, I will go back to the cluster reps and add weight and so on and so forth.

So right now, on one day I do trap bar deads, rows, and chinups, and on the other day I do bench press and OH Press. So basically, my original question was would it be better to do the cluster reps for all the exercises on one day, and then say 3 days later do the 3x8 with 80% for all the exercises, OR, do cluster reps for bench press, and the 3x8 with 80% for the OH presses on one day, and then 3 days later reverse it.

Basically, do you want a total low intensity day and a total high intensity day, or would there be any benefit to mixing them up, so in effect you would have a high intensity exercise every day, but less high intensity total volume per session, and then a low intensity exercise to follow?

**CowPimp** · 10-14-2009, 10:01 AM

I don't think it's so bad to combine high intensity work with more moderate to low intensity work in the same workout. That is essentially what the Westside template calls for, and a lot of people have had great success with that setup. I remember Dale Mabry doing something similar. It looked like the following:

Lower Power/Endurance
Upper Power/Endurance
Lower Strength/Hypertrophy
Upper Strength/Hypertrophy

These 4 workouts were distributed appropriately throughout the week.

This isn't to say that what P-funk has suggested is bad by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the contrary. My point is that either one is a completely viable option. Therein lies the fun in trying things out.

**P-funk** · 10-14-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

thanks p-funk, lots of good stuff as always

so what I got out of your examples is that it is better to do all of your high intensity stuff on one day, and all of the lower intensity stuff on another, as opposed to splitting it up on each day?

I will use what I am currently doing for a better example. I am playing around with cluster reps right now for my workouts. I have it broken down into simple push/pull split. I was using cluster reps at every workout. I thought it might be a good idea to not do this every workout, and so I thought of doing a low intensity day using the same exercises, just using 80% of what I used on the last day of cluster reps.

For example, I did trap bar deads last session for cluster reps with 350 pounds, so yesterday, I decided to do 3x8 with 80% of that or 270 for a low intensity day. It was pretty easy, challenging, but nothing too hard. Then next time I do this exercise, I will go back to the cluster reps and add weight and so on and so forth.

So right now, on one day I do trap bar deads, rows, and chinups, and on the other day I do bench press and OH Press. So basically, my original question was would it be better to do the cluster reps for all the exercises on one day, and then say 3 days later do the 3x8 with 80% for all the exercises, OR, do cluster reps for bench press, and the 3x8 with 80% for the OH presses on one day, and then 3 days later reverse it.

Basically, do you want a total low intensity day and a total high intensity day, or would there be any benefit to mixing them up, so in effect you would have a high intensity exercise every day, but less high intensity total volume per session, and then a low intensity exercise to follow?

Like cowpimp said, I simply laid out one example. I do think the High/Low sequence is helpful for many athletes. I don't know that it would apply in your context. A lot of this stuff will be dependant on your own situation.

Like Cowpimp said, you can surely train many qualities on the same day. I know in their book Optimizing Strength Training, Fleck and Kramer advocate against it, because you don't want to waste time training qualities that are not central to the days goal. The general model is to not "confuse" the body by training qualities that do not reflect the objective for that training day.

However, I have found it to work. One way is to have a power exercise, a strength lift and then repetitive lifts. For example:

1) Power clean - 8x2

2) Back squat - 5x3

3a) DB bench press - 3x6-10
3b) Chin up 3x6-10

Or whatever assistance exercises you choose. You get the drift.

The other thing is that I would not do cluster reps for the entire workout. Those are a specific tool for increasing strength by loading up on the volume for a given intensity. I would rather choose them for one exercise or one upper and one lower exercise to be trained on different days.

patrick

Stewart14 · 10-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Like cowpimp said, I simply laid out one example. I do think the High/Low sequence is helpful for many athletes. I don't know that it would apply in your context. A lot of this stuff will be dependant on your own situation.

Like Cowpimp said, you can surely train many qualities on the same day. I know in their book Optimizing Strength Training, Fleck and Kramer advocate against it, because you don't want to waste time training qualities that are not central to the days goal. The general model is to not "confuse" the body by training qualities that do not reflect the objective for that training day.

However, I have found it to work. One way is to have a power exercise, a strength lift and then repetitive lifts. For example:

1) Power clean - 8x2

2) Back squat - 5x3

3a) DB bench press - 3x6-10
3b) Chin up 3x6-10

Or whatever assistance exercises you choose. You get the drift.

The other thing is that I would not do cluster reps for the entire workout. Those are a specific tool for increasing strength by loading up on the volume for a given intensity. I would rather choose them for one exercise or one upper and one lower exercise to be trained on different days.

patrick

that right there, I think answers my question (of course, all the other info was appreciated as well), but that is what I was kind of asking....so you're saying one exercise with cluster reps, and then another for reps instead of all exercises with cluster reps. Gotcha.

I do like your power/strength/rep work layout though. In choosing a template like that for a push/pull/lower split, what would be your power exercises for the three days?

**P-funk** · 10-15-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

that right there, I think answers my question (of course, all the other info was appreciated as well), but that is what I was kind of asking....so you're saying one exercise with cluster reps, and then another for reps instead of all exercises with cluster reps. Gotcha.

I do like your power/strength/rep work layout though. In choosing a template like that for a push/pull/lower split, what would be your power exercises for the three days?

the power exercise can be whatever you want it to be. If I am training three days a week it may be something like an upper body power exercise, a lower, and then a total body. For example:

Mon - Medicine ball chest pass
Wed - Squat jump
Fri - power clean

You could alternatively use olympic variations on different days:

Mon - Snatch or snatch pull or DB snatch or KB snatch
Wed - Clean or clean pull
Fri - Push jerk or split jerk or DB jerk or KB jerk

The sky is the limit!

patrick

10-13-2009, 12:02 PM	#1
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,606 Photos: 2	Question on managing intensities throughout a workout week OK, I know this is probably major over analysis here, and in the end probably comes down to personal preference, but are there any advantages to splitting up a workout week like this: day 1 exercise 1 -- high intensity exercise 2 -- low intensity day 2 exercise 1 -- low intensity exercise 2 -- high intensity versus something like this: day 1 exercise 1 -- high intensity exercise 2 -- high intensity day 2 exercise 1 -- low intensity exercise 2 -- low intensity is anything gained by option 1, or is it better to really work hard on one day and have a break on the other? http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

10-13-2009, 04:03 PM	#2
Cgrant is endlessly cutting Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jersey Posts: 557	Not sure what your goals are, buþ personally, I am cutting, so I make every effort to do high intensity all the time Check out my Journal

10-13-2009, 04:11 PM	#3
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Just my two cents is kinda what you already know. If you'd like, try each method out for few weeks and check your logs to see if there are any differentiation in progress. Additionally, if you do see more progress in one method than the other, it probably still wouldn't be entirely prudent to give full credit to one method or another. However, it'll at least give you something to work with. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

10-13-2009, 05:29 PM	#4
VILBAUGH Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 131	what is your definition of intensity? Low intensity is warm up/rehab/prehab and nothing else. There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy. - M. Rippetoe

10-13-2009, 11:58 PM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,699	Define intensity and how you want to use it. What are your goals? What is the objective? "Most peoples highs are to low and their lows are to high" - Charlie Francis Low intensity work can be useful for recovery, tempo training, circuits, etc....but their is a specific objective there. So you need to talk more about what you are trying to accomplish. patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

10-13-2009, 10:52 PM	#5
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,498 Photos: 10	I think you need to think in body parts for this to work. Since only thinking about the body in upper push, upper pull, lower push, lower pull and bowel movements is allowed you need to define your movements in great detail.

10-14-2009, 09:51 AM	#9
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,606 Photos: 2	thanks p-funk, lots of good stuff as always so what I got out of your examples is that it is better to do all of your high intensity stuff on one day, and all of the lower intensity stuff on another, as opposed to splitting it up on each day? I will use what I am currently doing for a better example. I am playing around with cluster reps right now for my workouts. I have it broken down into simple push/pull split. I was using cluster reps at every workout. I thought it might be a good idea to not do this every workout, and so I thought of doing a low intensity day using the same exercises, just using 80% of what I used on the last day of cluster reps. For example, I did trap bar deads last session for cluster reps with 350 pounds, so yesterday, I decided to do 3x8 with 80% of that or 270 for a low intensity day. It was pretty easy, challenging, but nothing too hard. Then next time I do this exercise, I will go back to the cluster reps and add weight and so on and so forth. So right now, on one day I do trap bar deads, rows, and chinups, and on the other day I do bench press and OH Press. So basically, my original question was would it be better to do the cluster reps for all the exercises on one day, and then say 3 days later do the 3x8 with 80% for all the exercises, OR, do cluster reps for bench press, and the 3x8 with 80% for the OH presses on one day, and then 3 days later reverse it. Basically, do you want a total low intensity day and a total high intensity day, or would there be any benefit to mixing them up, so in effect you would have a high intensity exercise every day, but less high intensity total volume per session, and then a low intensity exercise to follow? http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

10-14-2009, 10:01 AM	#10
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	I don't think it's so bad to combine high intensity work with more moderate to low intensity work in the same workout. That is essentially what the Westside template calls for, and a lot of people have had great success with that setup. I remember Dale Mabry doing something similar. It looked like the following: Lower Power/Endurance Upper Power/Endurance Lower Strength/Hypertrophy Upper Strength/Hypertrophy These 4 workouts were distributed appropriately throughout the week. This isn't to say that what P-funk has suggested is bad by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the contrary. My point is that either one is a completely viable option. Therein lies the fun in trying things out. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

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