Hang Cleans - Vertical Pull or Push

Phineas · 10-13-2009, 10:29 PM

I know this may seem like a stupid question, but I'm torn because of technicalities. I would assume Hang Cleans are a pull, but, as I read the definition of a vertical push is an exercise which "pushes" the weight away relative to the torso, which you're doing in a Hang Clean.

How would I classify this?

**P-funk** · 10-13-2009, 11:55 PM

Lower body explosive movement (or total body explosive movement to be more exact I suppose). The main drive of the hang clean his hip extension and then a shrug at the top to get the bar into the rack position.

It really isn't a lift that qualifies into the push/pull sequence (I guess it is a pull though if you had to put it that way).

patrick

**Built** · 10-14-2009, 12:14 AM

I think of it as a "vertical" lol - and just leave it there. I do 'em on vertical push pull day, seems to fit well there.

**CowPimp** · 10-14-2009, 09:46 AM

Yeah not all movements can easily be classified into one of those nifty little categories. Where would you put a Turkish getup for example? That works well for certain things, but it isn't the best to classify everything.

If I HAD to classify a clean it would be as a hip dominant lower body movement because the primary articulation, if done properly, should be hip extension. However, other articulations are certainly important.

**Built** · 10-14-2009, 10:32 AM

Done from a hang, this hip-dominant component is mimimized, further complicating classification.

**CowPimp** · 10-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Done from a hang, this hip-dominant component is mimimized, further complicating classification.

Well, sort of. The knee-dominant component is also reduced, simply because ROM is reduced. However, the main contributor, hang or not, should still be the hips.

Phineas · 10-14-2009, 01:55 PM

I just did Hang Cleans last week for the first time. Now, I'll admit I didn't perform it correct, as I didn't realize I needed to bend my hips back slightly before the jerk portion of the lift. Nevertheless, I felt my shoulders working a great deal. I can see classifying power cleans in the lower pull, seeing as how you start in a deadlift-like position. I figured Hangs would be more vertical pull since so much of the power in the movement seems to come from the shoulders, and you start standing and only slightly bent at the hips.

I'm flexible in where I put this movement (I know I definitely like it, and can't believe it took me this long to include it on my program).

After a little over a year of experimenting with different training styles (if any of you remember when I joined, I use to a distance runner and took up weights to "fix" the damage I did to myself...though I fixed it long ago and have since come to love this sport so much I'm now getting into bodybuilding) and settling for the longest time on the common chest/back, arms/shoulders, legs routine, I've finally over the last month or so began to accept that push/pull regimes are more efficient. I've read a lot of material and now understand the logistics of it.

I've already put together my lower push/pull workouts (after a few weeks of splitting up legs I already notice a huge strength increase...don't understand how I didn't see before that if you split your upper body why wouldn't you do the same with the equally large lower...). I'm just in the process of putting together the other two weekly workouts which will be upper - horizontal push/vertical pull and upper - horizontal pull/vertical push. I'm really excited on dropping most of the isolation exercises in favor of a few more compound.

Anyway, I think I've done a good job balancing my program. I have an even number of planes of motion and muscles worked. I just don't know where would be the best place to put this exercise. I think it would fit nicely in vertical pull (seeing as how I need one for the second of my two 6 week programs).

Maybe I'll post my programs was they're done so everyone can critique them.

VILBAUGH · 10-14-2009, 05:19 PM

What does your rep scheme look like for your hang cleans?
also I assume that you are recieving the bar in a deep front squat?
or are you squatting it out after recieving the bar in the rack with a partial squat?

**Built** · 10-14-2009, 11:39 PM

cowpimp, I must be doing 'em wrong because when I do hang cleans, I sure don't feel 'em in my hips - I feel the tug in my delt insertions and my traps though!

Phineas, I do 'em with shoulders because of this. Did you see the shoulder module in my blog? Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Phineas · 10-15-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

cowpimp, I must be doing 'em wrong because when I do hang cleans, I sure don't feel 'em in my hips - I feel the tug in my delt insertions and my traps though!

Phineas, I do 'em with shoulders because of this. Did you see the shoulder module in my blog? Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

As a matter of fact, I'm using it in one of my two programs

**Built** · 10-15-2009, 09:43 AM

I thought you and I had discussed shoulders somewhere. I'm glad you're finding them so effective - I just love cleans. Doin' 'em tonight, in fact.

**P-funk** · 10-15-2009, 11:36 AM

Here is a few techniques I use to teach the clean and get people doing it with better technique (I have used these techniques to teach total beginners to clean with decent technique in a short period of time).

YouTube - Tips & Tricks for a Cleaner Clean

patrick

**CowPimp** · 10-15-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

cowpimp, I must be doing 'em wrong because when I do hang cleans, I sure don't feel 'em in my hips - I feel the tug in my delt insertions and my traps though!

Phineas, I do 'em with shoulders because of this. Did you see the shoulder module in my blog? Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Yeah, I always feel them in my traps big time too. That doesn't mean they are contributing the most to producing the movement. What do you think it capable of doing more work, your traps, or your glutes and hamstrings? Yeah, people can do a lot of weight with shrugs, but keep in mind they are moving the weight through a 2 inch range of motion.

**P-funk** · 10-15-2009, 12:52 PM

Also, the second pull is more explosive than other weightlifting movements. This is because of the high involvement of the lower extremity. The first pull does nothing more than to set up the second pull by maintaining trunk angle and get in good position to have a solid second pull (when the bar passes the knees). This is why some lifters pull slow off the floor and then explode once the bar clears the knees.

Olympic lifts = hip movement

patrick

10-13-2009, 10:29 PM	#1
Phineas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: British Columbia, Canada Posts: 120	Hang Cleans - Vertical Pull or Push I know this may seem like a stupid question, but I'm torn because of technicalities. I would assume Hang Cleans are a pull, but, as I read the definition of a vertical push is an exercise which "pushes" the weight away relative to the torso, which you're doing in a Hang Clean. How would I classify this? Training the mind is equally, if not more, important than training the body. If you can learn to transcend natural limitations, and force your mind into your muscle, your strength will know no bounds.

10-13-2009, 11:55 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,699	Lower body explosive movement (or total body explosive movement to be more exact I suppose). The main drive of the hang clean his hip extension and then a shrug at the top to get the bar into the rack position. It really isn't a lift that qualifies into the push/pull sequence (I guess it is a pull though if you had to put it that way). patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

10-14-2009, 12:14 AM	#3
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	I think of it as a "vertical" lol - and just leave it there. I do 'em on vertical push pull day, seems to fit well there. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-14-2009, 09:46 AM	#4
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Yeah not all movements can easily be classified into one of those nifty little categories. Where would you put a Turkish getup for example? That works well for certain things, but it isn't the best to classify everything. If I HAD to classify a clean it would be as a hip dominant lower body movement because the primary articulation, if done properly, should be hip extension. However, other articulations are certainly important. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

10-14-2009, 10:32 AM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Done from a hang, this hip-dominant component is mimimized, further complicating classification. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-14-2009, 01:55 PM	#7
Phineas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: British Columbia, Canada Posts: 120	I just did Hang Cleans last week for the first time. Now, I'll admit I didn't perform it correct, as I didn't realize I needed to bend my hips back slightly before the jerk portion of the lift. Nevertheless, I felt my shoulders working a great deal. I can see classifying power cleans in the lower pull, seeing as how you start in a deadlift-like position. I figured Hangs would be more vertical pull since so much of the power in the movement seems to come from the shoulders, and you start standing and only slightly bent at the hips. I'm flexible in where I put this movement (I know I definitely like it, and can't believe it took me this long to include it on my program). After a little over a year of experimenting with different training styles (if any of you remember when I joined, I use to a distance runner and took up weights to "fix" the damage I did to myself...though I fixed it long ago and have since come to love this sport so much I'm now getting into bodybuilding) and settling for the longest time on the common chest/back, arms/shoulders, legs routine, I've finally over the last month or so began to accept that push/pull regimes are more efficient. I've read a lot of material and now understand the logistics of it. I've already put together my lower push/pull workouts (after a few weeks of splitting up legs I already notice a huge strength increase...don't understand how I didn't see before that if you split your upper body why wouldn't you do the same with the equally large lower...). I'm just in the process of putting together the other two weekly workouts which will be upper - horizontal push/vertical pull and upper - horizontal pull/vertical push. I'm really excited on dropping most of the isolation exercises in favor of a few more compound. Anyway, I think I've done a good job balancing my program. I have an even number of planes of motion and muscles worked. I just don't know where would be the best place to put this exercise. I think it would fit nicely in vertical pull (seeing as how I need one for the second of my two 6 week programs). Maybe I'll post my programs was they're done so everyone can critique them. Training the mind is equally, if not more, important than training the body. If you can learn to transcend natural limitations, and force your mind into your muscle, your strength will know no bounds.

10-14-2009, 05:19 PM	#8
VILBAUGH Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 131	What does your rep scheme look like for your hang cleans? also I assume that you are recieving the bar in a deep front squat? or are you squatting it out after recieving the bar in the rack with a partial squat? There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy. - M. Rippetoe

10-14-2009, 11:39 PM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	cowpimp, I must be doing 'em wrong because when I do hang cleans, I sure don't feel 'em in my hips - I feel the tug in my delt insertions and my traps though! Phineas, I do 'em with shoulders because of this. Did you see the shoulder module in my blog? Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-15-2009, 09:43 AM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	I thought you and I had discussed shoulders somewhere. I'm glad you're finding them so effective - I just love cleans. Doin' 'em tonight, in fact. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-15-2009, 11:36 AM	#12
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,699	Here is a few techniques I use to teach the clean and get people doing it with better technique (I have used these techniques to teach total beginners to clean with decent technique in a short period of time). YouTube - Tips & Tricks for a Cleaner Clean patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

10-15-2009, 12:52 PM	#14
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,699	Also, the second pull is more explosive than other weightlifting movements. This is because of the high involvement of the lower extremity. The first pull does nothing more than to set up the second pull by maintaining trunk angle and get in good position to have a solid second pull (when the bar passes the knees). This is why some lifters pull slow off the floor and then explode once the bar clears the knees. Olympic lifts = hip movement patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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