Training for 'busy' triathlete

porfirio · 11-05-2009, 10:23 AM

Since my focus is on ironman triathalon training (eg, 4-6 hr bike rides), I'm wondering how to get the most out of my weight-training schedules.

Working off the 'Body Sculpting Bible' (highly recommended for newbies who need to learn proper form), here are my 'options':

(a) do full body workouts with 1 set (8-15 reps) for each muscle group (i.e., back, chest, bicepts, tricepts, quads, glutes, shoulders, calves), or

(b) split workouts (upper/lower body) with 2 sets (8-15 reps) for each muscle group.

Besides maximizing results, I'm concerned that w/option (b), I wouldn't get enough workouts for each muscle group in a week. Alternatively, with (a), would I need a rest day after each work out?

**CowPimp** · 11-05-2009, 10:25 AM

I think this is Peter's friend/co-worker. If so, greetings, this is his trainer Mike.

I'm sure you have more options than that. What are your goals with the resistance training? What is your past experience with resistance training? How many days per week, and what kind of time can you allot for each weight workout? I'm assuming you have access to a gym, so limited equipment is not an issue?

porfirio · 11-05-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I think this is Peter's friend/co-worker. If so, greetings, this is his trainer Mike.

I'm sure you have more options than that. What are your goals with the resistance training? What is your past experience with resistance training? How many days per week, and what kind of time can you allot for each weight workout? I'm assuming you have access to a gym, so limited equipment is not an issue?

Hey Mike. It is I, Peter's friend/co-worker. Thanks for responding. To answer your questions:

(1) Goal: Single-digit body fat % (encourage my wife to not be embarrased to hit the beach w/me).

(2) Been weight training since 2004. I have a bench w/leg extensions & a variety of free weights. Right now, I think I have good muscle mass (6', 160lbs) & I feel pretty strong. But there's always room for improvement!

(3) Time: That's my issue. Since IM training takes so much time, it's hard for me to squeeze in weight train sessions. So I want to make sure I'm sufficiently 'stressing' the main muscle groups, to develop muscle, but also allowing for sufficient recovery time (to develop muscle).

Also, while the jury's still out on this one, I cycle creatine which, in my opinion, helps me to both lift a little more & gain some mass (although it's mostly water, I find that once I'm off creatine & the water 'drains', my muscle 'curvatures' appear more well-defined). As for diet in general, I'm sure I consume more protien than most triathletes (whey is my friend).

Too much info/not enough?

**CowPimp** · 11-05-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porfirio

Hey Mike. It is I, Peter's friend/co-worker. Thanks for responding. To answer your questions:

(1) Goal: Single-digit body fat % (encourage my wife to not be embarrased to hit the beach w/me).

(2) Been weight training since 2004. I have a bench w/leg extensions & a variety of free weights. Right now, I think I have good muscle mass (6', 160lbs) & I feel pretty strong. But there's always room for improvement!

(3) Time: That's my issue. Since IM training takes so much time, it's hard for me to squeeze in weight train sessions. So I want to make sure I'm sufficiently 'stressing' the main muscle groups, to develop muscle, but also allowing for sufficient recovery time (to develop muscle).

Also, while the jury's still out on this one, I cycle creatine which, in my opinion, helps me to both lift a little more & gain some mass (although it's mostly water, I find that once I'm off creatine & the water 'drains', my muscle 'curvatures' appear more well-defined). As for diet in general, I'm sure I consume more protien than most triathletes (whey is my friend).

Too much info/not enough?

That's all good information. However, if you could quantify how much time you have to devote to weight training that would be helpful. "Busy" is a very subjective term. Something more objective like 40 minutes 3 times per week, or 1 hour 2 times per week, would be ideal.

Also, how long until your next race? If it isn't for another year, or several months, then perhaps in the mean time you can crank up the lifting volume and reduce the endurance training volume. Then you can shift your training into a more sport specific mode gradually as you get closer to the competition.

You mention both reaching single digit body fat and developing muscle. At this stage of the game, you are probably going to have to shoot for one of those at a time. I highly, highly recommend posting in the diet and nutrition section and getting some ideas there. Don't assume that your diet is "spot on" for what you are trying to accomplish. I've had people tell me that their diet is great, when in reality it is quite abysmal for the goal they are trying to reach. I'm not suggesting this to necessarily be the case in your situation, but my point is that you should open it up to 3rd party scrutiny.

gtbmed · 11-06-2009, 07:26 AM

So are you working out to gain muscle mass or to get better at triathlons?

porfirio · 11-06-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That's all good information. However, if you could quantify how much time you have to devote to weight training that would be helpful. "Busy" is a very subjective term. Something more objective like 40 minutes 3 times per week, or 1 hour 2 times per week, would be ideal.

Also, how long until your next race? If it isn't for another year, or several months, then perhaps in the mean time you can crank up the lifting volume and reduce the endurance training volume. Then you can shift your training into a more sport specific mode gradually as you get closer to the competition.

You mention both reaching single digit body fat and developing muscle. At this stage of the game, you are probably going to have to shoot for one of those at a time. I highly, highly recommend posting in the diet and nutrition section and getting some ideas there. Don't assume that your diet is "spot on" for what you are trying to accomplish. I've had people tell me that their diet is great, when in reality it is quite abysmal for the goal they are trying to reach. I'm not suggesting this to necessarily be the case in your situation, but my point is that you should open it up to 3rd party scrutiny.

(1) Time-wise, I have about 3/4 days of 1 hour sessions to spare right now. I'm also training for marathon in March but I WILL cont. to WT.

(2) I do focus on WT during the winter & that's when I get 'big'. The problem is, in the middle of the race season (around August), I seem to loose most of my muscle mass even though I cont. to lift at least twice a week. Sure, I can run 20 miles w/out a problem, but it sucks to be skin & bones! I've been told that I should cont. to consume protein during the race season to 'shield' the muscle from the body's natural process of self-canibalism. I'll look to the diet & nutrition section about that.

porfirio · 11-06-2009, 12:26 PM

(1) Time-wise, I have about 3/4 days of 1 hour sessions to spare right now. I'm also training for marathon in March but I WILL cont. to WT.

(2) I do focus on WT during the winter & that's when I get 'big'. The problem is, in the middle of the race season (around August), I seem to loose most of my muscle mass even though I cont. to lift at least twice a week. Sure, I can run 20 miles w/out a problem, but it sucks to be skin & bones! I've been told that I should cont. to consume protein during the race season to 'shield' the muscle from the body's natural process of self-canibalism. I'll look to the diet & nutrition section about that.

porfirio · 11-06-2009, 12:28 PM

Hi. Thanks for your response. I'm looking to gain muscle rather than use weight training for improved triathalon performance (although it coincidentally helps a lot to have decent muscle proportion... IMO).

gtbmed · 11-06-2009, 01:07 PM

I think a certain level of strength will help in your triathlon performance, but gaining size will likely be detrimental.

If you're truly looking for size, then the first thing that needs to be in order is your diet.

Now if you're training for triathlons, I'd probably stick to a few heavy full-body workouts each week. You're already getting tons of volume in your training, so you don't want to overdo your weight training volume. I'd stick to a simple workout like this:

Squats/Deads
Bench/Military press
Row/Chinups/Pullups

Do this 2-3 times a week and you should be fine as far as stimulating growth. I'd recommend keeping the volume low (2-3 sets of 4-6 reps for everything) and the intensity high (lift heavy). You may want to do some unilateral squats or deads as they will help a lot with stabilization.

**CowPimp** · 11-12-2009, 02:34 PM

Hey I didn't forget about you. I went out of town camping and I have had the flu. I will probably get back to you this weekend with a good response. Thanks for your patience.

**CowPimp** · 11-14-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porfirio

(1) Time-wise, I have about 3/4 days of 1 hour sessions to spare right now. I'm also training for marathon in March but I WILL cont. to WT.

(2) I do focus on WT during the winter & that's when I get 'big'. The problem is, in the middle of the race season (around August), I seem to loose most of my muscle mass even though I cont. to lift at least twice a week. Sure, I can run 20 miles w/out a problem, but it sucks to be skin & bones! I've been told that I should cont. to consume protein during the race season to 'shield' the muscle from the body's natural process of self-canibalism. I'll look to the diet & nutrition section about that.

Okay, 3-4 sessions per week at about 1 hour is perfect. Honestly, you don't need to invest any more time than that.

I honestly don't know if there's much you can do to completely eliminate the muscle wasting. Ideally keep in as much resistance training as you can. Twice per week is probably about as good as you could hope for if you have more sport specific training ahead of you. Really though, your best bet is to eat more than you are. Yes, sufficient protein intake is important, but overall calorie intake is probably the most important number. All that activity is very metabolically demanding, and I would be willing to bet that you could afford to consume a lot more calories than you might think you could. I don't know what your daily training volume is like, but if you're talking a couple hours a day, you could easily be consume 5000 calories a day before meeting energy requirements. It's impossible to say exactly, and something you'll have to learn through trial and error.

Have you ever considered using something called a body bug? It's a little device you wear that is supposed to be 9x% accurate at telling you how many calories you are consuming for the day. That could be helpful during your race season to provide you information with which to tabulate daily calorie intake to prevent weight losses.

If you want further help with your resistance training routine itself let us know. Read through some of the stickies if you like, and feel free to post your program/routine here to get people's thoughts.

stepaukas · 11-16-2009, 06:54 PM

peter
are you trying to survive an ironman, or out to better your previous times? 90% of the ironman athletes and marathoners just get in the way of the true competitors. if you want to improve at the tri, train at the tri. how is your bike workouts. 4-6 hour rides tell me nothing. what kind of work is done in that time? if done correctly, you'll be toast. just dead. then you have to ride ez the next day to feel less dead. then its swimming... lots.. and then the next day running. hell that only leaves 4 days left in the week.
now throw in weight training, and your whole week is training and sleeping. not a balanced life... if your not a pro and just a weekend dude.i have friends like this. all they do is train. they work a 40 hour job. year in and year out they simply survive the distance, never bettering their times... because they are never ever truly recovered for the next session. unless you're young, dont work and are rich, stick to one sport with the proper weight training for that one sport. combining 3 superhard sports, with added weight training leaves you totally dead... unless you dont work.
all the best to you, but think about it. are you improving on your bike races and open 10k runs? open water swims getting faster? if not, and you constantly train, that should be telling you something.
be a biker, swimmer or runner. the tris belong to the non workers.... unless you want to finish 5 hours behind the winner.... barley surviving .a non tri person, now they are in that 90%... just in the way. i think one friend is coming back to just biking. he seen the light. midwest stud on the bike. not worth a damn as a tri guy.
no hours to train and rest properly with the 40 hour working

all the best to you..
whats your best 40k tt in biking?
how bout your best 5 or 10 k time running?

devildog88 · 11-17-2009, 02:18 PM

What about using the cross fit principals? Workout time is very short and results are great!

**CowPimp** · 11-17-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildog88

What about using the cross fit principals? Workout time is very short and results are great!

Cross Fit is horrible for athletes. It lacks one of the main principles which an athlete must adhere to, and that is specificity. Cross Fit is more geared toward someone trying to just achieve some level of general fitness, or for someone who needs to be fit for anything that might come their way (Military, law enforcement, other public service positions, etc.).

stepaukas · 11-17-2009, 08:58 PM

totally agree with cowpimp
crossfit will get you in overall shape, but not specific shape.
when the few crossfitters comment on how doing crossfit lowers their 5k running time by doing only crossfit, it blows my mind. sure they improve ...they must have been super out of shape in the first place.
27 minutes for a 5k. then after only 5 months of crossfit they run a 25:50 5k.
be real. thats super super slow..
so if you wanna be good at something do that sport you want to be good at and then do a bit of weight training for that soprt.
good luck

11-05-2009, 10:23 AM	#1
porfirio Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: DC Posts: 6	Training for 'busy' triathlete Since my focus is on ironman triathalon training (eg, 4-6 hr bike rides), I'm wondering how to get the most out of my weight-training schedules. Working off the 'Body Sculpting Bible' (highly recommended for newbies who need to learn proper form), here are my 'options': (a) do full body workouts with 1 set (8-15 reps) for each muscle group (i.e., back, chest, bicepts, tricepts, quads, glutes, shoulders, calves), or (b) split workouts (upper/lower body) with 2 sets (8-15 reps) for each muscle group. Besides maximizing results, I'm concerned that w/option (b), I wouldn't get enough workouts for each muscle group in a week. Alternatively, with (a), would I need a rest day after each work out?

11-05-2009, 10:25 AM	#2
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	I think this is Peter's friend/co-worker. If so, greetings, this is his trainer Mike. I'm sure you have more options than that. What are your goals with the resistance training? What is your past experience with resistance training? How many days per week, and what kind of time can you allot for each weight workout? I'm assuming you have access to a gym, so limited equipment is not an issue? The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

11-06-2009, 07:26 AM	#5
gtbmed Greg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 370	So are you working out to gain muscle mass or to get better at triathlons? gtbmed's strength journal

11-06-2009, 01:07 PM	#9
gtbmed Greg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 370	I think a certain level of strength will help in your triathlon performance, but gaining size will likely be detrimental. If you're truly looking for size, then the first thing that needs to be in order is your diet. Now if you're training for triathlons, I'd probably stick to a few heavy full-body workouts each week. You're already getting tons of volume in your training, so you don't want to overdo your weight training volume. I'd stick to a simple workout like this: Squats/Deads Bench/Military press Row/Chinups/Pullups Do this 2-3 times a week and you should be fine as far as stimulating growth. I'd recommend keeping the volume low (2-3 sets of 4-6 reps for everything) and the intensity high (lift heavy). You may want to do some unilateral squats or deads as they will help a lot with stabilization. gtbmed's strength journal

11-12-2009, 02:34 PM	#10
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Hey I didn't forget about you. I went out of town camping and I have had the flu. I will probably get back to you this weekend with a good response. Thanks for your patience. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

11-06-2009, 12:26 PM	#7
porfirio Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: DC Posts: 6	(1) Time-wise, I have about 3/4 days of 1 hour sessions to spare right now. I'm also training for marathon in March but I WILL cont. to WT. (2) I do focus on WT during the winter & that's when I get 'big'. The problem is, in the middle of the race season (around August), I seem to loose most of my muscle mass even though I cont. to lift at least twice a week. Sure, I can run 20 miles w/out a problem, but it sucks to be skin & bones! I've been told that I should cont. to consume protein during the race season to 'shield' the muscle from the body's natural process of self-canibalism. I'll look to the diet & nutrition section about that.

11-06-2009, 12:28 PM	#8
porfirio Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: DC Posts: 6	Hi. Thanks for your response. I'm looking to gain muscle rather than use weight training for improved triathalon performance (although it coincidentally helps a lot to have decent muscle proportion... IMO).

11-16-2009, 06:54 PM	#12
stepaukas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: missouri Posts: 15	training for busy triathlets peter are you trying to survive an ironman, or out to better your previous times? 90% of the ironman athletes and marathoners just get in the way of the true competitors. if you want to improve at the tri, train at the tri. how is your bike workouts. 4-6 hour rides tell me nothing. what kind of work is done in that time? if done correctly, you'll be toast. just dead. then you have to ride ez the next day to feel less dead. then its swimming... lots.. and then the next day running. hell that only leaves 4 days left in the week. now throw in weight training, and your whole week is training and sleeping. not a balanced life... if your not a pro and just a weekend dude.i have friends like this. all they do is train. they work a 40 hour job. year in and year out they simply survive the distance, never bettering their times... because they are never ever truly recovered for the next session. unless you're young, dont work and are rich, stick to one sport with the proper weight training for that one sport. combining 3 superhard sports, with added weight training leaves you totally dead... unless you dont work. all the best to you, but think about it. are you improving on your bike races and open 10k runs? open water swims getting faster? if not, and you constantly train, that should be telling you something. be a biker, swimmer or runner. the tris belong to the non workers.... unless you want to finish 5 hours behind the winner.... barley surviving .a non tri person, now they are in that 90%... just in the way. i think one friend is coming back to just biking. he seen the light. midwest stud on the bike. not worth a damn as a tri guy. no hours to train and rest properly with the 40 hour working all the best to you.. whats your best 40k tt in biking? how bout your best 5 or 10 k time running?

11-17-2009, 02:18 PM	#13
devildog88 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 813 Photos: 1	What about using the cross fit principals? Workout time is very short and results are great! "Everyone wants to win but not everyone is willing to prepare to win" Bobby Knight

11-17-2009, 08:58 PM	#15
stepaukas Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: missouri Posts: 15	totally agree with cowpimp crossfit will get you in overall shape, but not specific shape. when the few crossfitters comment on how doing crossfit lowers their 5k running time by doing only crossfit, it blows my mind. sure they improve ...they must have been super out of shape in the first place. 27 minutes for a 5k. then after only 5 months of crossfit they run a 25:50 5k. be real. thats super super slow.. so if you wanna be good at something do that sport you want to be good at and then do a bit of weight training for that soprt. good luck

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