Thread: bicep vs. back

Either do a little less (few sets less, or cut an exercise) in your workouts, or you could switch to a fullbody split where you're doing only one exercise for each area in any given session. At least untill you build up a tolerance for weight training.

The other option is to pre-exhaust the lats by isolating them before doing your main exercise. E.g. Straight arm pulldowns before pullups, pullovers before rows etc etc.

Personally, if you're new to training i would go with the fullbody split option.

Originally Posted by tigertim

HELP!!
I am new to bodybuilding, but have lifted weights off and on. When I train my back my biceps give out way before my back gets a good workout. I have tried to workout back and biceps on the same day, on different days, working back first in the week after a few days rest. It does not matter my biceps give out first.

bicep workout
hammer curls standing
barbellcurls
close grip concentration curls

back workout
lat pull down behind head Drop this, very bad for the joints
lat pull down to chest
hands together cable pulls
one arm cable pulls

Any info would be great since I am new and would like to know what I am doing. Thanks

I am guessing you train back before biceps, if you don't you need to start.

Training back takes good form, keep working on it and soon enough you will find a way to hit biceps less and the lats more.

If your gym has a nautilus pullover machine try it.
That machine isolates the lats and the biceps are not involved during the ROM.

Do only the compounds, in opposite order each workout. Let the biceps grow. Save pre-exhaustion and isolation for 2011.

The above two posts are conflicting.

Try squeezing your back muscles for 1-2 seconds after the end of the pull. This should help prevent 'cheating' and also work the back muscles alot harder.

Note: this method is a lot harder on the mind and isn't great on the ego as you will be performing less reps as it's more taxing but believe me it works!

Gaz, your profile pic is awesome. Love the tagline, too, lol

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to get that dog to cooperate...but, I bet he was very anal....



ba dum ching!

Thank you...thank you, everyone...you've been great!

Okay, now what were we talking about?

Oh right, bodybuilding. For a second I thought this was the dog's asses forum. Stick to your compound pulls (cover vertical (e.g. pullups, chins, pulldowns) and horizontal (t-bar rows, DB rows, supine rows) and let your biceps and back grow together naturally. The biceps aren't meant to handle loads all on their own; the biceps support the back and some other muscles primarily in pulling objects towards your body. If you want bicep strength (and, ESPECIALLY if you back strength) drop the arm curls and stick to your heavy compound lifts -- which, by the way, elicit more growth hormones.

Also, if your biceps are fatiguing too quickly to give you quality pulls, you can always try moving your thumb on the inside of your palm so your "hooking" the bar, rather than "gripping". This decreases the biceps involvement in the lift.

Thanks for all the input. I will try these and see which one works best. Thanks again.

Sounds like a case of poor form. You should consult a qualified professional to instruct you on proper technique. If you post a video I would be happy to try and critique, though it is easier and more effective in person.

If you work your back properly with compound movements, your biceps get a lot of work. As a new trainee you may be working your biceps too much at the expense of your back development. Drop the machines and perform barbell rows, t-bar rows or dumbell rows along with pull ups performed on the chin up bar. Alternate wide grip with narrow grip on different days to give your back some variety. Three tough sets of each is enough of a back work out, believe me. If you must work biceps (I know it is hard to resist because we are conditioned to work the biceps) follow your back workout with barbell curls...3 sets of 6-8 reps.

rack pulls & deads, your back grow without using your biceps. But yeah, the compounds and reducing volume would be a great idea. A full body workout looks like the best option imo where you can stimulate your back 3x a week but not to the extent where the biceps are a hindrance.

Originally Posted by tigertim

HELP!!
I am new to bodybuilding, but have lifted weights off and on. When I train my back my biceps give out way before my back gets a good workout. I have tried to workout back and biceps on the same day, on different days, working back first in the week after a few days rest. It does not matter my biceps give out first.

bicep workout
hammer curls standing
barbellcurls
close grip concentration curls

back workout
lat pull down behind head
lat pull down to chest
hands together cable pulls
one arm cable pulls

Any info would be great since I am new and would like to know what I am doing. Thanks

Advice is all over the map, lol. Look at the isolation volume on the biceps.

Drop that shit, young man. Starting out your biceps could still be healing four and five days out. Just hit them with compounds every 4 or 5 days. Better yet for you.... once a week.

Fun thread.

From a purely physiological perspective it is more likely that it is your Triceps that are giving out than your biceps.
While there is obviously some bicep use it is the triceps that work as the pre-dominant assist to Lats.
As a person new to the muscle building game i would actually agree with CowPimp on this and think you actually need to speak to a qualified trainer who can look at your technique.
Dont be embarrased by this it is a common error, which even people who have trained for years misdiagnoise.

Loafer

Originally Posted by Loafer

From a purely physiological perspective it is more likely that it is your Triceps that are giving out than your biceps.
While there is obviously some bicep use it is the triceps that work as the pre-dominant assist to Lats.
As a person new to the muscle building game i would actually agree with CowPimp on this and think you actually need to speak to a qualified trainer who can look at your technique.
Dont be embarrased by this it is a common error, which even people who have trained for years misdiagnoise.

Loafer

Originally Posted by Loafer

From a purely physiological perspective it is more likely that it is your Triceps that are giving out than your biceps.
While there is obviously some bicep use it is the triceps that work as the pre-dominant assist to Lats.
As a person new to the muscle building game i would actually agree with CowPimp on this and think you actually need to speak to a qualified trainer who can look at your technique.
Dont be embarrased by this it is a common error, which even people who have trained for years misdiagnoise.

Loafer

Ummm.. thats funny... I never get a pump in my tri's while doing back movements. I certainly do in my biceps though. Maybe I have my arms on backwards.

Originally Posted by Loafer

From a purely physiological perspective it is more likely that it is your Triceps that are giving out than your biceps.
While there is obviously some bicep use it is the triceps that work as the pre-dominant assist to Lats.
As a person new to the muscle building game i would actually agree with CowPimp on this and think you actually need to speak to a qualified trainer who can look at your technique.
Dont be embarrased by this it is a common error, which even people who have trained for years misdiagnoise.

Loafer

I guess I was deceived by all those books, articles, studies, and bodybuilding experts who told me the triceps assist in pushing movements.

i had the same problem, and changed any bi isolation work to chest day.. worked for me

Originally Posted by maturemuscle

If you work your back properly with compound movements, your biceps get a lot of work. As a new trainee you may be working your biceps too much at the expense of your back development. Drop the machines and perform barbell rows, t-bar rows or dumbell rows along with pull ups performed on the chin up bar. Alternate wide grip with narrow grip on different days to give your back some variety. Three tough sets of each is enough of a back work out, believe me. If you must work biceps (I know it is hard to resist because we are conditioned to work the biceps) follow your back workout with barbell curls...3 sets of 6-8 reps.

This.

Or if you're a real noob then don't work biceps at all. You'll get plenty of bi stimulation from rows, chins or pulldowns.

Also, do you own straps?

On this program i do 3 sets of barbell curls a week. This is the most curling i have ever done in a program since i was a 13 year old bicep-obsessed idiot who made no gains. I think my biceps are well in proportion for the rest of my body.

Do pullups and rows instead, they will destroy your biceps and your back in one fell swoop.