Thread: Advice

The best biceps exercises I believe are the Wide Grip Scott(Preacher)Curl on the vertical side of the pad, Palms-Up chins, body drag curl, and incline curls. Best methods to train the biceps and triceps are using the pre-exhaustion or post-activation method. Definition comes from diet only, size comes from training, there are no such things as shaping or definition exercises. Also doing high rep curls will not burn fat in the biceps to give them definition. Final thought make sure you are not overtraining your biceps and triceps because they get alot of indirect stimulation from back and chest work, and also biceps and triceps dont need that many sets to develop because of the above statement.
Hope this helps

Daron
The Heavy Duty HITman

Pullups, dumbell rows, close grip pulldowns with your palms facing you. I do next to no bicep isolation work, 3 sets a week maximum. Really work hard on the big compound movements and you can't go wrong.

Here is some good exercises

Biceps
Heavy barbell curls
Alternating dumbbell curls
Chin-ups

Triceps
French press
close grip bench press
Dips

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Here is some good exercises

Biceps
Heavy barbell curls
Alternating dumbbell curls
Chin-ups

Triceps
French press
close grip bench press
Dips

I love it when people tag on the word "heavy" to an exercise name, as if that's how it has to be done.

Common bodybuilding principle: you can't lift heavy all the time. Not only is this taxing on your CNS, the lack of variety in intensities will yield fewer gains. Periodization is important, which is why "heavy" barbell curls become redundant. Aside from them being isolation (which I'm not a fan of...), you would still have to mix up the intensities just like any other exercise. So, at the end of the day, they're just barbell curls. No different.

The biceps and triceps were meant to assist larger muscles -- those being PRIMARILY the lats/rhomboids and pecs/delts respectively. Training them directly is unnatural and inefficient, and will or can lead to muscle imbalances -- especially concerning for those training for esthetique. The muscles will grow in natural, visually-pleasing proportions if you train with well-balanced compound movements. How many guys have you seen swinging 65s with their biceps who have chicken legs, toned, but small chests, no back, and only anterior delts? It's so common. Their arms are massive! Yes, that's nice. But, look at the rest of them......laughable.

Compound = natural.

Any upper horizontal and/or veritcal pull will hit your biceps. Rows, pullups, chinups, pulldowns, etc....experiement with grips, resistance, stance, etc. Even pronated grip hits the biceps, so don't feel the need to stick to supinated. Mix it up!

Just for encouragement.....I COMPLETELY (as in not even one rep per week) dropped isolation work in mid-October 2009....my arms have gained a good two inches from the increased compound lifting. Four times/week; twice upper, twice lower; cover your push/pull and horizontal/vertical and you're freaking golden! That's all you need, my friend.

Oh, and..uhh....EAT!!!!

I keep trying to rep you Phineas, but it won't let me give you anymore. Too many quality posts, man

I repped him for you

me too

Can somebody rep rahaas for repping Phineas. Its not letting me do that either :P

I love the internet.

Thanks for advice guys...

so just to sum up then.... a good balanced diet (with regular meals) and routine where focus is on a balanced workout and no isolation exercises for the bicept and tricept muscles??

Am i understanding it all correctly?

Originally Posted by Phineas

I love it when people tag on the word "heavy" to an exercise name, as if that's how it has to be done.

Nobody said that's how it has to be done. I found going heavy on the barbell is less taxing on the wrists than curl bar, and that why I recommended it.

Originally Posted by Phineas

Common bodybuilding principle: you can't lift heavy all the time. Not only is this taxing on your CNS, the lack of variety in intensities will yield fewer gains. Periodization is important, which is why "heavy" barbell curls become redundant. Aside from them being isolation (which I'm not a fan of...), you would still have to mix up the intensities just like any other exercise. So, at the end of the day, they're just barbell curls. No different.

Once again taken out of context. Nobody said you always had to always go heavy. Nobody asked for a full workout plan. Just some good bicep and tricep exercises. Which i gave several some heavy and some not.

Originally Posted by Phineas

The biceps and triceps were meant to assist larger muscles -- those being PRIMARILY the lats/rhomboids and pecs/delts respectively. Training them directly is unnatural and inefficient.

That's your opinion.

Originally Posted by Rio

Thanks for advice guys...

so just to sum up then.... a good balanced diet (with regular meals) and routine where focus is on a balanced workout and no isolation exercises for the bicept and tricept muscles??

Am i understanding it all correctly?

I don't think anyone is suggesting NO isolation, just that isolation should not be the primary movements.
General rule of thumb is to do compound movements first then if you feel you need more do isolation.
You'll find that after the compound movements your Bi's & Tri's are already fatigued and your ego will take a hit because your isolation movements wouldn't be with nearly as heavy a weight as if you've done them first but you will see better results overall.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

That's your opinion.

His is opinion is one I agree with as well for most movements.

Originally Posted by Rio

Thanks for advice guys...

so just to sum up then.... a good balanced diet (with regular meals) and routine where focus is on a balanced workout and no isolation exercises for the bicept and tricept muscles??

Am i understanding it all correctly?

You've hit on the main points of actually getting somewhere with training there:


1 - Diet is most important. Eat a whole range of foods from every food group, eat a lot, eat often.

2 - Balance your program - have as much pulling as pressing, have as much legs as upper body.


The others things to consider are:


3 - Always warmup and cooldown.

4 - Work hard every time you're in the gym. Effort in = effort out.


Isolation movements have their place, and that place is in the minority, at the end, and only if you've really nailed the basics. I don't think theres much need for bodypart specialization in anybody but intermediate and above, and even then it really is the icing on the cake for most purposes.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Can somebody rep rahaas for repping Phineas. Its not letting me do that either :P

I love the internet.

Haha, well thanks for the rep guys.

How do you rep people? Where did this whole rep thing come from?

chin ups, not pull ups

Originally Posted by Phineas

Haha, well thanks for the rep guys.

How do you rep people? Where did this whole rep thing come from?

Theres a weighing scales in the bottom left of every post, if you like/dislike that post you can rep/neg people to add to their overall reputation or detract from it.

Just a nifty forum-gadget to show appreciation for good work!

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Just a nifty forum-gadget to show appreciation for good work!

Why do you see people with a very low number of posts and extremely high rep points?
My guess is friends, but you're a mod so maybe you know of something else.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Nobody said that's how it has to be done. I found going heavy on the barbell is less taxing on the wrists than curl bar, and that why I recommended it.



Once again taken out of context. Nobody said you always had to always go heavy. Nobody asked for a full workout plan. Just some good bicep and tricep exercises. Which i gave several some heavy and some not.



That's your opinion.

I just think that when suggesting "heavy" to a beginner they mistakenly take it as must always be heavy for benefits.

While it's good you suggested "some heavy and some not" you didn't give any advice on intensities for the exercises. Periodization is another issue which he'll either ask about or decide on his own.

And finally, that's not my opinion, that's science. I'm not saying you can't use your biceps/triceps on their own; I'm just saying biologically-speaking they were designed to assist larger upper body muscles. The larger muscles are the main source of power and the arms are the carriers of the movements. Yes, the bis and tris contract, but only secondarily. They're like secretaries for the larger muscles; they're not working out monumental business decisions, but they sure as hell make their bosses' lives easier by sorting out their schedules, booking meetings, etc. They're the legs of the chair. The glue of the table.

How many analogies must I dish out?

Originally Posted by rahaas

I don't think anyone is suggesting NO isolation, just that isolation should not be the primary movements.
General rule of thumb is to do compound movements first then if you feel you need more do isolation.
You'll find that after the compound movements your Bi's & Tri's are already fatigued and your ego will take a hit because your isolation movements wouldn't be with nearly as heavy a weight as if you've done them first but you will see better results overall.

Exactly.

Maybe I come off as harsh against isolation all the time, but really what I mean is they should be intended ONLY for refining muscles a lifter eventually decides need extra work. Most beginners delve into poorly-constructed programs consisting largely of isolation movements, well before they have even assessed their physique's strong and weak points.

You wouldn't call in the interior decorator before your house was built, would you?

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Why do you see people with a very low number of posts and extremely high rep points?
My guess is friends, but you're a mod so maybe you know of something else.

I think it has to do with the amount of rep a member has to start with. If a new member with very little rep points decides to rep a member, they have less to offer as opposed to a member with lots of rep points who can give another member much more rep points.
Users with low post counts but high rep points simply means they've been given rep points by those whom already have ALLOT of rep points themselves.

I hear ya, but it's pretty much a joke.
I see some people who have very high rep points, that seem like they're still learning the basics. Yet they have a higher rep than say, Built. I mean come on.

Well, for size (regardless of location) I would have to say to include squats, deads, and other compound exercises in to your routine. Anything that will stimulate additional growth in your body (and nothing does it better than squats/deads,) will help your arms get bigger.

Then you can focus on those bi and tri exercises to put that growth to use.

And there's also food. You gotta eat. If you aren't growing, you aren't eating enough.