Thread: Help me help others

Nice choice of exercises, but I would include pulldowns so that you can have every plane of motion covered (I'm assuming pullups are out of the question at this point.)

I'd maybe drop military press for a stricter vertical push. He'll get all the core work he needs at this point in squats and deads. You want him to get the most muscle involvement he can, and a tricky lift like military press will hinder his performance on vertical pushes, in my opinion. I'd use corner press or Arnold Press. Or, maybe even push press. You'd have to make sure he gets the form right, but that's a serious metabolism booster. Plus, it might be fun for him to have one power lift mixed in with the strength training.

Long live the oh-mighty deadlift.

Originally Posted by Phineas

Nice choice of exercises, but I would include pulldowns so that you can have every plane of motion covered (I'm assuming pullups are out of the question at this point.)

I agree with this.

I would also put squats monday, that way you space squats and deads as far apart as possible. Even using light weight, fairly high rep squats or deads can really break off a newbie. If the squats really whip his ass, I would recommend alternating weeks of squats and deads in the beginning.

Phineas,
Yes, I did not really think about vert pull. I will add tht in there. I went with the military press because of exactly what you said about the arnies. I figured that a military press using a barbell was much more controlled and beginner-like than arnies. Can you explain your recommendation.

Pushandpull,
Good point.

Any comments on diet, bf%, and others addressed in my original post?


Adjusted Program

Monday:
Squat- 100#-3x10

Tuesday:
Bench- 100#-3x10
Pulldowns-35#-3x10

Thursday:
Military press or Arnies (YTBD)- 40#-3x10
Seated row: 50#-3x10

Friday:
Deadlifts- 100#-3x10

Though I realize this guy is probably extremely deconditioned, you can probably include more exercises each workout. He needs to be practicing things frequently, especially at first. Grooving appropriate motor patterns takes practice, and quality practice at that.

I would suggest 3 exercises per workout at first. Try a lower body movement, a push, and a pull. Now, keep in mind, for a total beginner to resistance training (Or someone who hasn't done it in a very long time), you only need to use something like 40% of the person's 1RM to see adaptation. So, you can easily have the guy doing sets of 12-15 repetitions with 50-60% of his 1RM. I understand you can't test this yet, but worry more about technique right now. For someone who is out of shape, even a couple sets several repetitions short of failure is going to cause adaptations (And quite a bit of soreness) to take place.

For the squats, start the dude off with bodyweight. Seriously, at 325 pounds, he has a decent amount of resistance sitting on him right now. He also needs to learn appropriate form. I'm not suggesting it even needs to stay there after the first workout. If he can bang out 15 bodyweight squats in good form with minimal coaching, then go ahead and add some weight. However, there is no reason to just jump up to 100 pounds immediately. I will tell you from experience, it is EXTREMELY rare for someone that far removed from exercise to be able to squat 100 pounds their first time in the gym.

So, his workouts might look something like the following (2-3 sets of 12-15 repetitions on all of them):

Day 1:
Squat
Pushups
Seated Row

Day 2:
Romanian Deadlift
Military Press
Pulldowns

Do this 3 days per week alternating which workout is done twice for the week.

Be careful with the military press too. There are a lot of people who just don't have the thoracic spine mobility to be doing overhead presses. I have some clients that don't do them, and probably never will: for example, one of my clients has a spine deformity such that he has extreme kyphosis of the thoracic spine, which he had before he started working a sedentary job.

I'd think about using Rippetoe's Starting Strength as a program. Rippetoe knows what he's talking about and SS is a great program for novices.

As for the diet, yes, you want to think of things in terms of lbs. of LBM and not total lbs.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I would also put squats monday, that way you space squats and deads as far apart as possible.

I disagree. The way the OP has it, squat, 2 days rest, DL, 3 days rest. Your suggestion will have squat, 3 days rest, DL, 2 days rest.

I think you need more rest after deads than after squats. You can always dead with sore legs. You can't squat with a sore back.

My opinion only.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Though I realize this guy is probably extremely deconditioned, you can probably include more exercises each workout. He needs to be practicing things frequently, especially at first. Grooving appropriate motor patterns takes practice, and quality practice at that.

I would suggest 3 exercises per workout at first. Try a lower body movement, a push, and a pull. Now, keep in mind, for a total beginner to resistance training (Or someone who hasn't done it in a very long time), you only need to use something like 40% of the person's 1RM to see adaptation. So, you can easily have the guy doing sets of 12-15 repetitions with 50-60% of his 1RM. I understand you can't test this yet, but worry more about technique right now. For someone who is out of shape, even a couple sets several repetitions short of failure is going to cause adaptations (And quite a bit of soreness) to take place.

For the squats, start the dude off with bodyweight. Seriously, at 325 pounds, he has a decent amount of resistance sitting on him right now. He also needs to learn appropriate form. I'm not suggesting it even needs to stay there after the first workout. If he can bang out 15 bodyweight squats in good form with minimal coaching, then go ahead and add some weight. However, there is no reason to just jump up to 100 pounds immediately. I will tell you from experience, it is EXTREMELY rare for someone that far removed from exercise to be able to squat 100 pounds their first time in the gym.

So, his workouts might look something like the following (2-3 sets of 12-15 repetitions on all of them):

Day 1:
Squat
Pushups
Seated Row

Day 2:
Romanian Deadlift
Military Press
Pulldowns

Do this 3 days per week alternating which workout is done twice for the week.

Be careful with the military press too. There are a lot of people who just don't have the thoracic spine mobility to be doing overhead presses. I have some clients that don't do them, and probably never will: for example, one of my clients has a spine deformity such that he has extreme kyphosis of the thoracic spine, which he had before he started working a sedentary job.

Damnit! My original response to this question was about including more volume, but I deleted it because I finished reading his post and saw that the guy in question is foreign to exercise. My thunder was stolen!

Anyways, I agree with Cowpimp. Maybe even a 4 day upper/lower push/pull split to give him variety for fun and resistance.

Originally Posted by rockhardly

Phineas,
Yes, I did not really think about vert pull. I will add tht in there. I went with the military press because of exactly what you said about the arnies. I figured that a military press using a barbell was much more controlled and beginner-like than arnies. Can you explain your recommendation.

Sorry, I should've specified "seated" Arnies. I suggested them because, like DB shoulder press, there's a greater ROM than BB work (I noticed a lot of beginners have trouble with upper body BB push work) and they hit all three delt heads. Also, military presses are a very strict movement that require significant core work to be executed with decent intensity. He won't have the torso power to push weight in a controlled manner overhead without dropping the intensity to probably even lower than what Cowpimp said would work (40%).

The core work he'll get from squats and deads (especially at his weight...). That being said, for his upper vertical push I would think the focus should be on the targeted muscles; military press detracts from that, a bit -- as it's more of an advanced lift in terms of full-body stablizing. Focus on his delts and triceps in the lift.

Originally Posted by Triple Threat

I disagree. The way the OP has it, squat, 2 days rest, DL, 3 days rest. Your suggestion will have squat, 3 days rest, DL, 2 days rest.

I think you need more rest after deads than after squats. You can always dead with sore legs. You can't squat with a sore back.

My opinion only.

There are so many ways you look at it. I'd say more rest before SQUATS, because squats are heavier on the hams than deads are on the quads. I never have much trouble deadlifting with sore quads but squatting with sore hams is brutal, especially if you intend on controlling the eccentric. Bye bye tempo!

Chewing on everyones advice this is what I am proposing to get him on:

His stats: 6'-1", 325# @ 40% bf (Guess) giving him a lbm of 195#.
Diet: 2000 cals (aprox. 10cals/#); 195g protein (1g/#), 73g carbs,
98g fat (0.5g/#)

Training:
Monday:
Bench-2x12
Seated row-2x12

Tuesday:
Squat-2x12
Seated leg curls-1x12

Thursday:
Seated Arnies-2x12
Hang Cleans-2x12

Friday:
Deadlifts-2x12
Pull downs-2x12

All excercises will be very light weight to start so that he can build some endurance, keep soreness down, and to work on proper form. I also went with a 4 day split to get him in a routine of going to the gym 4 days a week. I think if he can stick with this, I will be able to tweek some things in the future, i.e. add excercises, change volume, intensities, etc.

How does it look to you?