Powerlifting vs bodybuilding

Josh · 09-04-2002, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body on another thread
Work on stuff like:
Squats
Deadlifts
Basic chest, arm and shoulder exercises

I just think your time in the gym would be MUCH better spent working on the basics that get us all big first.

Reading this reply got me thinking about powerlifting vs bodybuilding. I recall reading when first starting lifting weight that there is a difference between these two, but at that time I didn't pay much attention, I just lift those weights, and eventually tried various exercises and followed various routines which now I think properly belong to bodybuilding. My main goal had been to gain weight, realizing that I was skinny at the time (now still thin, but a bit fatter than before lifting any weight).

Scotty's advise above seems to say that I should first start with powerlifting and get big first, and then after I am big I can proceed with bodybuilding. Am I correct in this understanding?

If it is so, then I need to know exactly how to proceed with powerlifting. Does this mean I should only do the power exercises, ie the big three bench presses, squats and deadlifts? Should I do only these on every session, never laterals, never curls, never tris exercises, etc? What about the routines? What kind of rep range should I use? What kind of variations can I do to avoid boredom and plateau? I need all the details there is to execute this prerequisite to get big, so I can quickly do them.

Oh, as additional information, my gym doesn't have a power rack, only a Smith machine and ez barbell, so I have been doing squats and bench presses on the Smith, and deadlifts with ez barbell.

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

- Josh

**Mudge** · 09-04-2002, 08:26 AM

Basic excersizes doesn't mean powerlifting, powerlifting is more about long rest periods and LOW LOW REPS, maxing out often since that is how you increase your stregth.

Bodybuilding has much higher working rep sets, shorter rest periods, since its about looking good not neccessarily being strong.

These are called compound excersizes, since they use many bodyparts at once they have some sort of synergistic effect which makes the whole body grow better than just doing isolation movements like zottman curls or something like that. Laterals are good yes, for the side delts, I would do triceps yes, powerlifters may avoid certain items but I don't think thats what your after?

**gopro** · 09-04-2002, 08:45 AM

Powerlifting will not make you as big as bodybuilding. Using the 3 "powerlifts" in your training WILL help you get bigger. The squat, bench press, and deadlift are 3 excellent compound movements that when done in a bodybuilding protocol can help you get BIG.

Training with compound movements as your core is the key to getting big. Isolation movements are fine to use, but they should occupy a smaller portion of your routine until you have some serious size.

Hell, I have gained 135 lbs since I started training and I still base my training around basic lifts!

Twin Peak · 09-04-2002, 09:34 AM

Well, I think you have it all there with those 2 responses.

I'd just like to add that you definitely have the WRONG idea about powerlifting. Powerlifters do train every body part, they just do it in a different manner.

Scotty the Body · 09-04-2002, 10:17 AM

What more can I add

Just trying to give you some advise that i wish someone had given me along time ago. I'd be friggin Gopro huge by now.

**Mudge** · 09-04-2002, 10:17 AM

Well, I do honestly know some that only do about 3 movements and thats it.

Josh · 09-04-2002, 11:04 AM

Wait...slow down plz. I may not be using the word "powerlifting" correctly, so let's forget about the term. So now what should I do to gain mass / get big as quick as possible, exercise-wise speaking?

Quote:

Training with compound movements as your core is the key to getting big. Isolation movements are fine to use, but they should occupy a smaller portion of your routine until you have some serious size.

Gopro, how do I make the compound movements as core of my routines? Does this mean every chest session I must always do bench presses, only optionally adding flys, machine press, etc? And every leg sessions I must always do squats, only optionally adding leg press, etc? How about the routines that I submitted to you these past weeks for your 3-cycle method, were they qualified as routines with compound movements as core?

Quote:

Powerlifters do train every body part, they just do it in a different manner.

Twin Peak, how do powerlifters train differently? Can you give an example plz?

- Josh

Twin Peak · 09-04-2002, 11:16 AM

Sure. Someone alluded to it above but the powerlifters goal is pure strength. Training in the VERY low rep range, 2, reps, 3 reps, 4 reps, and many singles is the crux of the powerlifters routine. Maximal poundages. Longer rest periods.

A bodybuilders goal is SIZE. Optimal rep ranges are from 5-15 depending on your philosophy and bodytype.

Its more involved but that gives you the general idea. Both powerlifters AND bodybuilders routines should revolve around, squats, deads and benches.

**Prince** · 09-04-2002, 01:24 PM

The goal of a powerlifter is increasing their 1 rep max on the 3 lifts, squats, deadlifts and bench press.

The goal of a bodybuilder is to build and shape their body to attain a certain appearance. Typically a bodybuilder does not care how much weight they can lift.

As far as using the 3 powerlifting lifts as a bodybuilder is fine. They are compound movements that will help you build a solid foundation. However, as a bodybuilder you would not perform these lifts with the same goal as a powerlifter.

ALBOB · 09-04-2002, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh how do I make the compound movements as core of my routines?

Let's make this as simple as possible to start with and divide your body into the three big parts; legs, chest and back. Nothing is carved in stone but, if you do two compound movements and one isolation movement for each of these body parts you will have the basis of a very good routine. For example, when working chest I start with incline dumb bell presses, then move to dumb bell flyes and finish off with weighted dips. You'll probably notice my isolation movement is in between the two compound movements, that's not carved in stone either. Occasionally I do flyes first. For legs I always do my isolation movement first to give my quads a good pre-exhaust before moving to the leg press and finally to squats.

Josh · 09-04-2002, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Sure. Someone alluded to it above but the powerlifters goal is pure strength. Training in the VERY low rep range, 2, reps, 3 reps, 4 reps, and many singles is the crux of the powerlifters routine. Maximal poundages. Longer rest periods.

A bodybuilders goal is SIZE. Optimal rep ranges are from 5-15 depending on your philosophy and bodytype.

Its more involved but that gives you the general idea. Both powerlifters AND bodybuilders routines should revolve around, squats, deads and benches.

So if my goal is to get big (gain muscle mass, get more heavier and bigger body), I should actually be a bodybuilder instead of a powerlifter? Meaning I should use rep range between 5-15, and arrange the exercises around squats, deads and benches.

Would this be correct as a way to get big? Sorry for being rather slow here....

- Josh

rks1969 · 09-04-2002, 08:08 PM

Try GoPro s POWER ,REP RANGE, SHOCK routines here in the training boards.

**Mudge** · 09-04-2002, 08:11 PM

Yes, bodybuilding is 100% about looking good (big, symetrical, etc), powerlifting is all about numbers, they are usually either fat guys or small guys (173 pounds benching 600 etc) competing in weight classes.

Rissole · 09-04-2002, 08:40 PM

Hey Josh, i hear your frustration man!!
I took GP's 3 week cycle and made it into a routine
Posted 1st week here
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=10743 (My new routine??)
Most guys work Chest/bis legs/shoulders back/tris (correct me if i'm wrong guys)
I dont know why, it's just worked for me

You can change it around a bit to do what you want.
I'm gonna post the other 2 weeks either today or tommorrow
Remember that cheating (i know not always) and lifting fast will make your muscles small and hard. Lifting slow and controlled will give best results!!

Keep up your quest for knowlege and dont give up no matter how long it takes
Its taken me and my brother 6-8 months to see any marked improvement but you just gotta be strict with yourself!!
Consistacy at the gym, in your diet, and plenty 'o' rest
Go for it champ with both guns blazing!!

Josh · 09-04-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rks1969
Try GoPro s POWER ,REP RANGE, SHOCK routines here in the training boards.

Oh yes, I have been using Gopro's cyclical routines for the last 9 weeks. I just have doubt whether this is the way to get big for me because I recalled that I have to lift heavy first before I do bodybuilding. As it turns out, this memory is not correct, and it seems that what I've been doing so far is correct (except for my diet).

Quote:

Originally posted by peetrips
Hey Josh, i hear your frustration man!!

Thanks for your kind concern.

Quote:

Remember that cheating (i know not always) and lifting fast will make your muscles small and hard. Lifting slow and controlled will give best results!!

Thanks for the advise, I will have to remember to do this everytime.

- Josh

Twin Peak · 09-05-2002, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh

So if my goal is to get big (gain muscle mass, get more heavier and bigger body), I should actually be a bodybuilder instead of a powerlifter? Meaning I should use rep range between 5-15, and arrange the exercises around squats, deads and benches.

Would this be correct as a way to get big? Sorry for being rather slow here....

- Josh

In short. Yes. Personally I prefer rep ranges in the 6-8 range and sometimes go a lot lower and sometimes go higher, but for me, 6-8 is optimal.

You leg day should revolve around squats. Your Back around deads, and your chest around bench or incline bench. You should also focus on shoulders, and arms, and for each of them should be revolvong around the heaviest compound movements.

As you grow and get more experienced and learn what works best for you you can mix things up.

**gopro** · 09-05-2002, 08:08 AM

Josh...my power, rep range, shock routine is meant for 1 thing...TO GET BIG. The cyclical nature of the program is meant to recruit all fiber types over the 3 weeks as well as cause growth through different hormonal mechanisms. The core of the program still revolves around basic compound exercises, which include bench press, deadlifts, and squats...BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY! There are many basic exercises...military press, bent rows, incline press, upright rows, dips, etc.

The key is to make sure and not neglect these movements in your routine. Some guys will train chest with just flyes, pec deck, and crossovers...this will get you nowhere. When I say make sure that basics are at the core of your workouts, I mean that you should spend the MAJORITY of you time on them...example...

-bench press (basic) x 3
-dips (basic) x 3
-flyes (isolation) x 2

If you recall, every time you PMed me about your training I would really only change your exercise CHOICES by deleting an isolation exercise like lat pulldowns and adding a basic move like bent row.

Now, with that said, I believe that most size gains are made when lifting in the 7-12 rep range as this produces a favorable time under tension for hypertrophy stimulation, however, the 3-6 range should not be neglected and niether should the 11-15 (or 20 for legs) range.

Each week in the P, RR, SH program is meant to compliment each other. Now, although the standard approach to my plan, the 3 week cycles, will produce alot of growth for most, I will often tweak it slightly according to the individual and his/her specific goals. For instance, if strength is the primary goal and hypertrophy secondary, I may change the sequence to power, power, RR, SH. For size gains I may go with P, rep range, rep range, SH. For contest training, P, RR, shock, shock.

So, if you choose to use my routine or any other, the take home message is FOCUS ON THE BASICS for the majority of your exercise selection.

Josh · 09-05-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
So, if you choose to use my routine or any other, the take home message is FOCUS ON THE BASICS for the majority of your exercise selection.

Okay, thanks to Gopro and all who have responded, I now understand better how to design routines specifically aimed to get bigger.

Thank you very much.

- Josh

09-04-2002, 08:26 AM	#2
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Basic excersizes doesn't mean powerlifting, powerlifting is more about long rest periods and LOW LOW REPS, maxing out often since that is how you increase your stregth. Bodybuilding has much higher working rep sets, shorter rest periods, since its about looking good not neccessarily being strong. These are called compound excersizes, since they use many bodyparts at once they have some sort of synergistic effect which makes the whole body grow better than just doing isolation movements like zottman curls or something like that. Laterals are good yes, for the side delts, I would do triceps yes, powerlifters may avoid certain items but I don't think thats what your after?
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

09-04-2002, 08:45 AM	#3
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Powerlifting will not make you as big as bodybuilding. Using the 3 "powerlifts" in your training WILL help you get bigger. The squat, bench press, and deadlift are 3 excellent compound movements that when done in a bodybuilding protocol can help you get BIG. Training with compound movements as your core is the key to getting big. Isolation movements are fine to use, but they should occupy a smaller portion of your routine until you have some serious size. Hell, I have gained 135 lbs since I started training and I still base my training around basic lifts!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

09-04-2002, 09:34 AM	#4
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Well, I think you have it all there with those 2 responses. I'd just like to add that you definitely have the WRONG idea about powerlifting. Powerlifters do train every body part, they just do it in a different manner.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

09-04-2002, 10:17 AM	#5
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	What more can I add Just trying to give you some advise that i wish someone had given me along time ago. I'd be friggin Gopro huge by now.
	Cool

09-04-2002, 10:17 AM	#6
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Well, I do honestly know some that only do about 3 movements and thats it.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

09-04-2002, 11:16 AM	#8
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Sure. Someone alluded to it above but the powerlifters goal is pure strength. Training in the VERY low rep range, 2, reps, 3 reps, 4 reps, and many singles is the crux of the powerlifters routine. Maximal poundages. Longer rest periods. A bodybuilders goal is SIZE. Optimal rep ranges are from 5-15 depending on your philosophy and bodytype. Its more involved but that gives you the general idea. Both powerlifters AND bodybuilders routines should revolve around, squats, deads and benches.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

09-04-2002, 01:24 PM	#9
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,520 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	The goal of a powerlifter is increasing their 1 rep max on the 3 lifts, squats, deadlifts and bench press. The goal of a bodybuilder is to build and shape their body to attain a certain appearance. Typically a bodybuilder does not care how much weight they can lift. As far as using the 3 powerlifting lifts as a bodybuilder is fine. They are compound movements that will help you build a solid foundation. However, as a bodybuilder you would not perform these lifts with the same goal as a powerlifter.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

09-04-2002, 08:08 PM	#12
rks1969 KUTTIN'UP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lexington,North Carolina Posts: 219	Try GoPro s POWER ,REP RANGE, SHOCK routines here in the training boards.
	YOU CAN SPEND YOUR TIME ANY WAY YOU WANT ,BUT YOU CAN SPEND IT ONLY ONCE. MAKE IT WORTH IT!!!!!!

09-04-2002, 08:11 PM	#13
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Yes, bodybuilding is 100% about looking good (big, symetrical, etc), powerlifting is all about numbers, they are usually either fat guys or small guys (173 pounds benching 600 etc) competing in weight classes.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

09-04-2002, 08:40 PM	#14
Rissole 2 Samuel 24:24 Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: "OZTRAILYA" :D Posts: 8,286 Photos: 36	Hey Josh, i hear your frustration man!! I took GP's 3 week cycle and made it into a routine Posted 1st week here http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=10743 (My new routine??) Most guys work Chest/bis legs/shoulders back/tris (correct me if i'm wrong guys) I dont know why, it's just worked for me You can change it around a bit to do what you want. I'm gonna post the other 2 weeks either today or tommorrow Remember that cheating (i know not always) and lifting fast will make your muscles small and hard. Lifting slow and controlled will give best results!! Keep up your quest for knowlege and dont give up no matter how long it takes Its taken me and my brother 6-8 months to see any marked improvement but you just gotta be strict with yourself!! Consistacy at the gym, in your diet, and plenty 'o' rest Go for it champ with both guns blazing!!
	My Journal

09-05-2002, 08:08 AM	#17
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Josh...my power, rep range, shock routine is meant for 1 thing...TO GET BIG. The cyclical nature of the program is meant to recruit all fiber types over the 3 weeks as well as cause growth through different hormonal mechanisms. The core of the program still revolves around basic compound exercises, which include bench press, deadlifts, and squats...BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY! There are many basic exercises...military press, bent rows, incline press, upright rows, dips, etc. The key is to make sure and not neglect these movements in your routine. Some guys will train chest with just flyes, pec deck, and crossovers...this will get you nowhere. When I say make sure that basics are at the core of your workouts, I mean that you should spend the MAJORITY of you time on them...example... -bench press (basic) x 3 -dips (basic) x 3 -flyes (isolation) x 2 If you recall, every time you PMed me about your training I would really only change your exercise CHOICES by deleting an isolation exercise like lat pulldowns and adding a basic move like bent row. Now, with that said, I believe that most size gains are made when lifting in the 7-12 rep range as this produces a favorable time under tension for hypertrophy stimulation, however, the 3-6 range should not be neglected and niether should the 11-15 (or 20 for legs) range. Each week in the P, RR, SH program is meant to compliment each other. Now, although the standard approach to my plan, the 3 week cycles, will produce alot of growth for most, I will often tweak it slightly according to the individual and his/her specific goals. For instance, if strength is the primary goal and hypertrophy secondary, I may change the sequence to power, power, RR, SH. For size gains I may go with P, rep range, rep range, SH. For contest training, P, RR, shock, shock. So, if you choose to use my routine or any other, the take home message is FOCUS ON THE BASICS for the majority of your exercise selection.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

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