Thread: Weight training and women

She wants to do the same Routine I have been following recently

M11 Said Therefore, exercises such as the squat, deadlift, presses and pulls should be the dominant movements in your routine.

would this type of routine work well for her and help in fat burning like it is helping me?

What's burning fat is the fact that you're running a deficit (thus ensuring weight loss) and lifting (which protects you from burning off muscle).

In short, yes.

If her intake is 2100 and she's not losing, she'll need to eat less than 2100. Try 1700-1800, see what happens. She should drop about half a pound a week on that, which is plenty fast enough for a small woman.

BMI is not the same as percent bodyfat. What does she currently weigh?

She weighs 160 lbs

Okay - I'm her height and I was about 40% bodyfat when I weighed 170, so she's clearly going to feel better when she drops at least twenty pounds.

What macros does she eat? (ie grams protein, carb and fat, as well as total calories)
She on the pill by any chance?

Her macros on most days are 30% fat 40% Carbs and 30% Proteins, what percentages do you recommend?
While I was tracking her calories per her request I have not seen her go over 2100 calories in one day for last 2 weeks however there were 2 days where she went as low as 1500.
Isn't the formula 12 calories per pound for low activity folks to maintain? Which would mean she would need to eat less than 1920 calories to be in deficit.
So let's say she starts working out with me 4 days a week that number will go up to 15 calories per pound equaling 2400 calories a day if I am not mistaken.
If she stays under 1900 calories a day, in theory should she not start losing about a pound a week?

I'd start by replacing the sugar & milk in the coffee w/ non-cal options. Milk = sugar + fat.

Also am I reading this right? 2000 cal / day = 1 meal of 2000 cals or 2 meals of 1000 cals each? Is there a reason for this or that's just how she eats? Also does that include the milk & sugar cals?

First are those cals good quailty foods or shit food?

I'd also suggest breaking it up into several smaller meals of good foods. It does take time to change the way you have conditioned yourself to eat but it is doable.

Diets are not supposed to be DIE w/ a T. Also if you take the approach of following a "Diet" unti you hit your goal and then go off the diet to your "regular" way of eating, all you're going to do is go back to the way you were before. Your body can only reflect (i.e. respond to) the environment in which it exists --- i.e. the way you fuel it, the way you demand energy of it, and the quality / amount of recovery you give it. A great new lifestyle is including lifting (and no she doesn't have to worry about turning into a man - I've been lifting for nearly 30 years, balls to the wall & I've never been accused of looking "manly"). I would suggest that if you want results from that lifting, then you need to fuel for it. Make sure you eat sufficiently for training, and after burning up all the available glycogen, after a workout is a great time to add a small amount of cardio - e.g. 20 min of walking cardio to take advantage of that burn rate, and then do a small protein /simple carb (not candy!) recovery "meal" and then get to your next meal w/in 1-2 hrs.

So that its not a mystery, I highly recommend her reading Bill Philips' BODY FOR LIFE book. It is a very good, easy read that explains how nutrition & metabolism works (i.e starving yourself will not produce the results you want), as well as a great diet guideline (not a strict meal plan!) and 3x/week training schedule that is a great place for a beginner to start, and she can expand to muscle group training or whatever other variation. I don't consider this a "weird diet" - it is the foundation of most competition diet approaches (but not as extreme).

Originally Posted by Built

Okay - I'm her height and I was about 40% bodyfat when I weighed 170, so she's clearly going to feel better when she drops at least twenty pounds.

What macros does she eat? (ie grams protein, carb and fat, as well as total calories)
She on the pill by any chance?

hey Built, are you still in Vancouver? I've been seeing this woman at my gym in Victoria who looks like a bodybuilder, and from a picture I remember seeing of you she kind of looks like you.

Originally Posted by kyle64

Her macros on most days are 30% fat 40% Carbs and 30% Proteins, what percentages do you recommend?
While I was tracking her calories per her request I have not seen her go over 2100 calories in one day for last 2 weeks however there were 2 days where she went as low as 1500.
Isn't the formula 12 calories per pound for low activity folks to maintain? Which would mean she would need to eat less than 1920 calories to be in deficit.
So let's say she starts working out with me 4 days a week that number will go up to 15 calories per pound equaling 2400 calories a day if I am not mistaken.
If she stays under 1900 calories a day, in theory should she not start losing about a pound a week?

Probably optimistic to think this can drop a pound a week for her, but may be possible.

I'd get away from a "ratio" approach to her diet. She'll find protein and fat satiating, carbs likely not so much although this varies. Is she an "apple" or a "pear" shape?

Originally Posted by sassy69

I'd start by replacing the sugar & milk in the coffee w/ non-cal options. Milk = sugar + fat.

Also am I reading this right? 2000 cal / day = 1 meal of 2000 cals or 2 meals of 1000 cals each? Is there a reason for this or that's just how she eats? Also does that include the milk & sugar cals?

First are those cals good quailty foods or shit food?

I'd also suggest breaking it up into several smaller meals of good foods.

Here's where Sassy and I disagree. There's no physiologic reason to split up the meals - but it may make it easier (or harder) for her to eat less than she currently eats. You'll have to experiment.

It does take time to change the way you have conditioned yourself to eat but it is doable.

Diets are not supposed to be DIE w/ a T. Also if you take the approach of following a "Diet" unti you hit your goal and then go off the diet to your "regular" way of eating, all you're going to do is go back to the way you were before. Your body can only reflect (i.e. respond to) the environment in which it exists --- i.e. the way you fuel it, the way you demand energy of it, and the quality / amount of recovery you give it. A great new lifestyle is including lifting (and no she doesn't have to worry about turning into a man - I've been lifting for nearly 30 years, balls to the wall & I've never been accused of looking "manly"). I would suggest that if you want results from that lifting, then you need to fuel for it. Make sure you eat sufficiently for training, and after burning up all the available glycogen, after a workout is a great time to add a small amount of cardio - e.g. 20 min of walking cardio to take advantage of that burn rate, and then do a small protein /simple carb (not candy!) recovery "meal" and then get to your next meal w/in 1-2 hrs.

So that its not a mystery, I highly recommend her reading Bill Philips' BODY FOR LIFE book. It is a very good, easy read that explains how nutrition & metabolism works (i.e starving yourself will not produce the results you want), as well as a great diet guideline (not a strict meal plan!) and 3x/week training schedule that is a great place for a beginner to start, and she can expand to muscle group training or whatever other variation. I don't consider this a "weird diet" - it is the foundation of most competition diet approaches (but not as extreme).

Although Sassy and I generally agree here, I'm not a fan of BFL - too much emphasis on things that don't matter, like "six meals a day" and working out in the morning before you eat. It's a better plan than weightwatchers or other nonsense I've seen though.

Originally Posted by Phineas

hey Built, are you still in Vancouver? I've been seeing this woman at my gym in Victoria who looks like a bodybuilder, and from a picture I remember seeing of you she kind of looks like you.

Nope - Vancouver.

Originally Posted by Built

Probably optimistic to think this can drop a pound a week for her, but may be possible.


Here's where Sassy and I disagree. There's no physiologic reason to split up the meals - but it may make it easier (or harder) for her to eat less than she currently eats. You'll have to experiment.
Although Sassy and I generally agree here, I'm not a fan of BFL - too much emphasis on things that don't matter, like "six meals a day" and working out in the morning before you eat. It's a better plan than weightwatchers or other nonsense I've seen though.

What I like about BFL is that it lays out information in a consummable way - we're talking about someone who assumes the default way to lose weight is to starve. IMO it helps to just understand how & why things work. We can argue all day long about how many meals you need to eat - my question is WHY is she eating this way now? Does it work? Is that just how she's conditioned? I'm interested in providing a basic understanding of nutrition & training and gives the person the TOOLS to do things as opposed to some strict meal plan and the person has no idea how to make the variations from that or to tweak it based on getting to know how their bodies work in response to whatever diet.

And I really think just dumping the milk & sugar w/ the coffee will make a solid change in & of itself.

Nobody needs sugar all day, no doubt about it. That stuff makes me hungry as hell.

The sugar and milk thing is not as big of a deal as I thought it was, I guess since I am at work that is the one part I was not keeping track of as far as the calories when I asked her tonight she told me she is having a total of 12 tsp of sugar and about half a cup of Vit D Milk a day. That is like 240 Calories a day which can't be really impacting her that much.
I think her metabolism must have slowed down because before our last child was born she used to eat a lot more and she was slender, she was always around 140 pounds. I hope lifting with me is going to help speed up her metabolic rate and in turn help her shed the extra weight, I know she will be a lot happier back at 140.
She is going to start tracking her own calories, it will be a lot easier, there is something about learning how to count, it makes you very aware of food and what you are eating.
Going back to my original question, should she be doing those exercises M11 & Built recommended for beginner body builders?

It's not the calories, it's the impact of the sugar on appetite: fructose consumption is associated with impaired post-prandial (after meal) satiety.

Here's what I'd recommend for her, and it's free:

For diet, do this: Got Built? » The “Do It Yourself” Diet – Comfort food for life.

and for exercise, do this: Got Built? » Basic whole-body workout, and in a month do this: Got Built? » Simple Variation

She certainly should.

Also, ensure that she is getting in plenty of soft tissue work (foam rolling) as well as some good stretching and warmup. If she's like most individuals, she probably does a lot of sitting throughout the day and she's likely experiencing plenty of muscular shortening right around her hips/ lower back/hamstring -- that core area. Even if she is reasonably active, improving her flexibility, tissue quality, and abdominal strength is frequently overlooked. Something like the Agile Eight would be fantastic. Throwing in some ab wheels, leg raises, etc. a couple times a week to strengthen her abdominals would be a good idea (the standard note: she shouldn't expect those exercises to lean out her midsection --- that's all diet, you know that though). Perhaps fifty or sixty total reps (5x12, 4x15 ... whatever she can do) two or three times a week would work. Doing so will help her out with all of her lifts --- stabilizing a barbell on her shoulders during the squat is tough if she has weak abdominals.

Additionally, getting her form in order is imperative. I've become a fan of those concept of using many sets of singles and doubles with very light weight so that you can check her form after each one. Think: 12 sets of 2 or 6 sets of 3 -- something like that.The higher rep programming -- doing 3x8's or 5x5's for the major lifts has her banging out reps without you being able to intervene with advice. Your intervention after every rep or two can help her avoid any bad habits that can develop after pushing out one or two good reps following by three or four bad ones. She can move on to the appropriate programming when she gets her form together -- it shouldn't take too long though.

If you aren't confident in your form (and your ability to teach her), PM me and i'll point you in the direction of some good resources.

U hit the nail right on the head....
Women just don't have the necessary T-levels

The whole concept of weight training to lose fat for her is not making sense but she wants to do it, she sees it working on me but she was told by a very fat friend of hers who is 5'6" 300+ lbs that weight training made her gain the weight which I know is total BS because the girl's sister told me she's been heavy since she was 6 years old.
I had my wife watch the videos on Built's blog (thanks Built) she was very impressed and those ladies look in perfect shape, she loved the idea of getting that strong.
Thanks m11 again, I am picking up a Foam Roll for her this evening, we found some good videos on how to use them on youtube. She already does a ton of stretching daily and she is very flexible so it should help with the weight training.

The immediate benefit of weight training is the sparing of muscle tissue. Her diet is will ensure that she will lose fat, the weight training will ensure that she does not lose muscle.

In addition to muscle sparing while she diets down, she'll experience increased functional strength (grocery bags will feel lighter and she won't need your help to open the pickle jar). Also, does your wife want to be able to play with herb future grandkids? Weight training will significantly increase bone density and, as mentioned before, reasonably spare muscle mass as she ages --- she won't turn into one of those little old ladies with the atrophied hamstrings and quadriceps and lower back muscles that walk around all hunchbacked and one banana peel away from a broken hip.

That's just the short list but hopefully it'll be enough to get her in the gym --- it's not just about improving her current quality of life, but rather, weight training now is an investment for her future.

In addition to what you've already found, here are some more sources of foam rolling info:

Training with Foam Rollers

TMUSCLE.com | Feel Better for 10 Bucks

Some killer information in here.
I wish this thread was here about 2-3 weeks ago. My fiancee just started working out with me a couple weeks ago so we have been experimenting with a lot of different things to see what works for her. So I can relate to quite a bit of this thread.

As mentioned above its very important to find what she "likes" or what she is comfortable with when it comes to working out and food. You said she has milk and sugar in her coffee. See if she can put in a lower % milk and a little less sugar. If she has 2% maybe try 1%. Maybe 3/4 spoon of sugar instead of full spoon. My fiancee loves candy so as a substitute for the candy I found sweet dried fruit that she can snack on. She also likes almonds so that helped too as a snack. Every little bit helps for the weight loss. But if she doesnt like a certain more healthy food it just wont work. So find something your wife likes. Also keep in mind your wife does not have to totally remove the sugars or the less healthy stuff. Just keep it to a minimum or only a couple times a week. We also have a couple cheat snacks that we like on our days off but in small amounts.

Working out as a couple has been a lot of fun for sure and an entirely new learning experience for me. I am so used to bulking and weight gain, yet she wants to lose the weight. We do have one major focus, to keep bf % down. Keep us updated on the progress.

The quality of your calories is almost more important than the total calories. I often use the analogy of your body as a finely tuned, high-performance sports car. Your body is designed to run optimally - but it can only respond to the environment it is asked to perform in - just like a car - you have to keep it maintained, change the oil, change your belts, keep your filter clean (ok cars probably dont' use filters anymore.. aging myself) - but if you let all these go, then you car's performance starts to bog down. Eating a pile of sugar is like throwing mud in your gas tank. It still has "stuff" in the tank, but its not really what the car was designed to run on. Sugar also tends to produce insulin spikes, and generally we run better when we minimize big swings in anything in the system. Also consider, if her diet is 2000 calories, more than 10% is coming from sugar. Remember a successful (by that, I mean maintainable results) "diet" is the one that becomes your lifestyle. The most successful way to make it become your lifestyle is to make small tweaks to your current lifestyle instead of dramatic changes. There are sugar freeo options to sugar & milk so I kinda think if she isnt' willing to at least try some options, then she's not serious about results. Its like Dr Phil says when people come on his show wanting a certain outcome but arent' willing to make changes to what they're doing now, he always says very simply "And how's that workin' for ya?". It ain't. That's exactly the thing.

Like I said, if you don't believe that dropping the sugar & milk will make a difference, and you're serious about making changes, try it. Also note that it takes about 3 weeks of honestly consistent change in a diet to produce results. It takes a little bit of time for your body to respond to a change and then gather that its a consistent change it can expect to plan to run on.

Originally Posted by kyle64

The whole concept of weight training to lose fat for her is not making sense but she wants to do it, she sees it working on me but she was told by a very fat friend of hers who is 5'6" 300+ lbs that weight training made her gain the weight

Considering weight training doesn't convince the body to become FATTER - and of course, the fact that an unassisted woman isn't going to pack on 150 lbs of lean mass (more like 15 lbs of lean mass, in her lifetime!), her friend needs an education more than your wife!

which I know is total BS because the girl's sister told me she's been heavy since she was 6 years old.
I had my wife watch the videos on Built's blog (thanks Built) she was very impressed and those ladies look in perfect shape, she loved the idea of getting that strong.

It totally rocks.

Thanks m11 again, I am picking up a Foam Roll for her this evening, we found some good videos on how to use them on youtube. She already does a ton of stretching daily and she is very flexible so it should help with the weight training.

This is great. Note that preworkout stretching should be dynamic. Save the static stretches to the end.

Originally Posted by m11

The immediate benefit of weight training is the sparing of muscle tissue. Her diet is will ensure that she will lose fat, the weight training will ensure that she does not lose muscle.

In addition to muscle sparing while she diets down, she'll experience increased functional strength (grocery bags will feel lighter and she won't need your help to open the pickle jar). Also, does your wife want to be able to play with herb future grandkids? Weight training will significantly increase bone density and, as mentioned before, reasonably spare muscle mass as she ages --- she won't turn into one of those little old ladies with the atrophied hamstrings and quadriceps and lower back muscles that walk around all hunchbacked and one banana peel away from a broken hip.

That's just the short list but hopefully it'll be enough to get her in the gym --- it's not just about improving her current quality of life, but rather, weight training now is an investment for her future.

Excellent post - and a reminder, that weight training isn't going to burn off fat. Cardio barely does this - a small woman running for an hour might burn off what, 360 calories? That's 40 grams of fat at the most - an ounce and a third. Easier to just not drink the cola and be done with it.

Originally Posted by ectomorph141

Some killer information in here.
I wish this thread was here about 2-3 weeks ago. My fiancee just started working out with me a couple weeks ago so we have been experimenting with a lot of different things to see what works for her. So I can relate to quite a bit of this thread.

As mentioned above its very important to find what she "likes" or what she is comfortable with when it comes to working out and food. You said she has milk and sugar in her coffee. See if she can put in a lower % milk and a little less sugar. If she has 2% maybe try 1%. Maybe 3/4 spoon of sugar instead of full spoon.

I'd actually urge you to drop carbs before dairy fat. Dairy fat is satiating. Skim milk has less fat but more sugar.

My fiancee loves candy so as a substitute for the candy I found sweet dried fruit that she can snack on.

I know it seems healthier, but dried fruit is LOADED with fructose and really isn't an appropriate substitute for candy. If she wants sweets and candy, she's hungry. Get more protein and fat into her and watch those sugar cravings all but disappear.

She also likes almonds so that helped too as a snack.

Almonds are an excellent fat source - but get her OUT of the snacking habit. If she's hungry, eat a meal with plenty of protein and yes, the almonds along with that for the crunch. But most folks don't find nuts eaten alone particularly satiating. Eat 'em, but eat 'em WITH the protein meal. No snacking. Eat, feel full, brush your teeth, let yourself get hungry again, and then eat another substantial meal. Fewer and larger meals are a better option than smaller and more frequent meals - especially for a woman who is trying to lose weight. Our calories are just so much lower than a man's, that tiny little micro meals aren't big enough to fill us up.

Every little bit helps for the weight loss. But if she doesnt like a certain more healthy food it just wont work. So find something your wife likes. Also keep in mind your wife does not have to totally remove the sugars or the less healthy stuff. Just keep it to a minimum or only a couple times a week. We also have a couple cheat snacks that we like on our days off but in small amounts.

This is prudent advice.

Working out as a couple has been a lot of fun for sure and an entirely new learning experience for me. I am so used to bulking and weight gain, yet she wants to lose the weight. We do have one major focus, to keep bf % down. Keep us updated on the progress.

Originally Posted by sassy69

The quality of your calories is almost more important than the total calories. I often use the analogy of your body as a finely tuned, high-performance sports car. Your body is designed to run optimally - but it can only respond to the environment it is asked to perform in - just like a car - you have to keep it maintained, change the oil, change your belts, keep your filter clean (ok cars probably dont' use filters anymore.. aging myself) - but if you let all these go, then you car's performance starts to bog down. Eating a pile of sugar is like throwing mud in your gas tank. It still has "stuff" in the tank, but its not really what the car was designed to run on. Sugar also tends to produce insulin spikes, and generally we run better when we minimize big swings in anything in the system. Also consider, if her diet is 2000 calories, more than 10% is coming from sugar. Remember a successful (by that, I mean maintainable results) "diet" is the one that becomes your lifestyle. The most successful way to make it become your lifestyle is to make small tweaks to your current lifestyle instead of dramatic changes. There are sugar freeo options to sugar & milk so I kinda think if she isnt' willing to at least try some options, then she's not serious about results. Its like Dr Phil says when people come on his show wanting a certain outcome but arent' willing to make changes to what they're doing now, he always says very simply "And how's that workin' for ya?". It ain't. That's exactly the thing.

Like I said, if you don't believe that dropping the sugar & milk will make a difference, and you're serious about making changes, try it. Also note that it takes about 3 weeks of honestly consistent change in a diet to produce results. It takes a little bit of time for your body to respond to a change and then gather that its a consistent change it can expect to plan to run on.

Following up on this last notion, the calories she eats are the single determining factor that will govern weight gain or loss. However, the quality of those calories will impact upon how comfortable she feels on fewer calories than she requires, which after all is the only way to lose weight.

Protein, fibre, fat, soups, and some acid foods (yogurt for example) are satiating. Sugar and grain foods tend to make many of us MORE hungry. If your wife is hungry all the time, she's either going to be miserable, or she's going to say "fuck it" and overeat.

Personally, I'd rather restrict my intake of sugars and grains than feel hungry all the time.

Again, even more great information Built. I didnt realize that about the skim milk and the dried fruit.

Originally Posted by ectomorph141

Again, even more great information Built. I didnt realize that about the skim milk and the dried fruit.

Read your nutrition labels! As Built touched on, plenty of fructose in the dried fruit --- the fructose in the dried fruit is the same as the fructose in a Snickers.

What is a good alternative to Milk & Sugar for Coffee that is not bad for you?

Splenda for the sweet, and personally I see no problem with a little milk in her coffee.

She dumped the sugar for Splenda, she is does not care for the flavor too much but I am sure in a few days she will adjust and enjoy it.

Originally Posted by kyle64

She dumped the sugar for Splenda, she is does not care for the flavor too much but I am sure in a few days she will adjust and enjoy it.

I actually like the taste of Splenda in coffee.

Another good option is the selection of flavored liquid stevia. I have a friend who loves this stuff!

Here's a discussion about it if you're looking for someone's opinion of it:Starling Fitness » Liquid Stevia

Just googling "liquid flavored stevia", I found a number of places that sell it, including amazon, e.g.

flavored liquid stevia - Google Search

It's still sugar but I like the organic unbleached sugar. Got a little flavor to it and you don't need as much.

I use Stevia for everything but my wife hates the way it tastes, she says Splenda tastes better!