Thread: periodization

It's impossible to give you advice on this without knowing what you want to get out of your training. "Work" how? Just looking at what you have come up with, the only thing i can say is that the two configurations you'd be using are too vague:

3x5 is very different to 4x12, but 3x8 is practically the same as 4x8 - and these are the ranges you have specified. If you take the outer extremes, yeah they're different but if you fall in the middle you're not really changing anything at all.

When trying to design some sort of periodization scheme, ask these questions:


1. What do i want to achieve throughout this training cycle?

2. What are the training variables that affect this the most?

3. How can i manipulate these variables to get to that goal?


If my answers were "gain muscle" and "training volume", the third one would probably be "slowly increase it throughout the program" - i.e. Linear Periodization.

If my answers were "gain muscle" and "volume and intensity", the third answer would probably be "include workouts focused on intensity AND volume" - i.e. Alternating Periodization.

If i wanted to make it more complicated, i could combine the two approaches and progress both the volume and intensity throughout the length of the program WHILE alternating them.

OP: Are you using the same weight just varying reps?

well if im doing 8-12 reps. i'll use the same weight each time until i can do 12 good form reps then i'll up the weight, so im constantly progressing in reps or weight? I've just come off a 1 and a half week break and want to get bakc to it, im also considering doing a push/pull/legs routine but i just don't know if doing each muscle group oncer per week is enough? I've read some things that suggest muscle protein synthesis only stays elvated for approx 48hours following resistance training? So is once per week really enough?

Originally Posted by beginnerbb

well if im doing 8-12 reps. i'll use the same weight each time until i can do 12 good form reps then i'll up the weight, so im constantly progressing in reps or weight? I've just come off a 1 and a half week break and want to get bakc to it, im also considering doing a push/pull/legs routine but i just don't know if doing each muscle group oncer per week is enough? I've read some things that suggest muscle protein synthesis only stays elvated for approx 48hours following resistance training? So is once per week really enough?

Yes. You're thinking to much about the details.

In the last two weeks i have done about 5 sets for 'chest', and some of those were warmups. It hasn't gotten smaller and I haven't gotten weaker on bench press.

There's far more chance of you training something too much than not training it enough.

Im not saying train like i do, but just don't worry about it. Training is a chronic thing, consistency overall a long period of time is what will yield results. If you train on the monday are getting stronger or bigger (compensating) on the friday or saturday, there is absolutely no reason why you will start suddenly getting weaker or smaller (decompensating) on the sunday or monday.

so you think a push/pull/legs routine where each muscle group gets worked out just once a week can work? It just doesnt seem to make much sense based on the whole protein synthesis thing

Originally Posted by beginnerbb

so you think a push/pull/legs routine where each muscle group gets worked out just once a week can work? It just doesnt seem to make much sense based on the whole protein synthesis thing

Assuming this research i have never read is true, when do you suppose protein synthesis is going to happen? During your rest days, or when you are training that muscle again?

If you're going to train the same muscles every 48 hours, you're either going to be training every single day or doing huge fullbody sessions - the former leaving no time for synthesis because you're in a constant state of stress rather than repair, and the latter probably leading to catabolism because you're in the gym for hours and hours, negating any possible benefits.

Once a week is enough for most people, if we're talking in terms of whole sessions. You could do regular fullbody workouts, but the volume-per-workout for each bodypart would be proportionately reduced. Both are equally viable ways of training, each with their own benefits and drawbacks.

I.e. - Push/Pull/Legs with 3 exercises per session = fullbody/fullbody/fullbody with 1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs EACH session rather than all in one place.

in regards to the workout posted above, whilst doing each exercise for 3 sets would that be sufficient? ignore the amount of reps for the moment but if that routine was done with 3 sets each?

I can't answer that.

For some people that would be too much, for others that wouldn't be nearly enough. The reps also have an impact. 3x3, 3x8 and 3x25 are all "just 3 sets", but totally different in terms of an entire session.

15 sets of 3 in a session would be impossible for most people because such a high intensity over that many sets is far too tough. 15 sets of 25 might be possible for somebody great at endurance, but that would kill me. 15 sets of 8 is probably okay for most people, though.

You should have some idea of what your limits and "sweet spots" are for training, what you respond to best, and how hard you work. If you don't, start with this and see what happens - you can always fix it as you go along.

Still don't know what your goals are, so can't help with the periodization part.

Have you read the articles on my website about periodization? I would take a look if you haven't, just so we're talking the same language.

i had a read of your website there is some good stuff on it, does flood and destroy training actually work? i've never read anything like it?

Originally Posted by beginnerbb

i had a read of your website there is some good stuff on it, does flood and destroy training actually work? i've never read anything like it?

Thanks, glad you like it!

Yeah, its a not a bad program. Its tough, but i've heard some good results from other people who have tried it. Its stuck up on the wall in the gym i work at too, haha.

i am actually leaning towards the 20 squat rep program is it really that effective? i'm not that experienced though, about 5 or 6 months lifting?

Have you been critiqued by someone with allot of training experience on your squat form?

um no, in fairness im not so interested in my actual legs, but i know squats are important for the growth hormones that the only reason i would be doing that program, even if my form wasnt perfect my body would still release all those hormones? i need to build my upper body as quickly as possible

I'm just suggesting being careful with advanced training programs so that you don't develop premature joint issues.

thats a fair point, im starting to think i actually just cant build muscle! i also really dont think its my diet i'm eating the right amount of protein and calories and if anyhting have gained body fat so i must be in a calorie surplus, i just think my body isnt made for weight lifting and gaining muscle

Nonsense, there is a problem somewhere. Not everybody can get to be hercules, but everybody can gain muscle and transform their physique and health.

Besides, it's only been 6 months. I expect at least half of that was just learning the exercises and getting a base level of conditioning.

A lot of your threads have been about different programs. I seem to remember not so long ago you making a bunch of threads about HIT training, now you're interesting in Push/Pull/Legs, that one on my site, and 20 Rep Squats. Before that weren't you doing 4 sets of 8 or something?

I think you're a bit overwhelmed by all the different options available to you, so you're not giving any particular program 100% of your attention. Sometimes it takes a month or two for a program to really get going for some people, you've got to give it a chance.

Im guessing your goal is to get bigger.

Do you log your calories?

I think you should get on a basic, compound program like P-Funk's KISS setup, and work hard on it for 12 weeks and really cram the food into you.

Have 3 fullbody sessions a week, do 3 exercises, 15-20 sets a session, push something, pull something, and do something for your legs. Don't rest for too long between sets, get out of the gym in 45-60 minutes. No wasted time, and not a lot of confounding factors.

can you link me to p-funk's kiss setup please?

Speaking of periodization, lately I've tried to reincoporate some dropsets and supersets (like I used to), but I find that anything involving my arms on PULLS (pushes seem to be fine) my forearms get too burned out and full of lactic that I can't properly perform the lift -- meaning, although the "intensity" may be high in the sense that I'm training with shorter rests, because of my arms' inability to assist the larger muscles I'm foreced to reduce the weight so drastically that the target muscle(s) are worked insufficiently. I understand that with supersets and dropsets the weight will almost always be reduced because of the shorter rest intervals, but the drawbacks from my fatigued forearms far outweights the benefits of the increased pace. It seems more like I'm training my forearms and grip than I am my lats when I'm rowing, for instance.

My question is, (note that I currently don't do any grip work) can I orient grip work to give me not necessarily strength but a versatile sort of endurance that will allow me to superset major compound lifts without my forearms failing before the target muscle(s)?

I figured farmers walks would be useful. Any tips on how I could achieve this?

Originally Posted by beginnerbb

can you link me to p-funk's kiss setup please?

Sports Performance Coach and Licensed Massage Therapist — Patrick Ward, MS CSCS LMT.

Enjoy. Patrick is awesome, he really knows his stuff so read carefully!

Originally Posted by Phineas

My question is, (note that I currently don't do any grip work) can I orient grip work to give me not necessarily strength but a versatile sort of endurance that will allow me to superset major compound lifts without my forearms failing before the target muscle(s)?

I figured farmers walks would be useful. Any tips on how I could achieve this?

Static holds definitely, farmers walks are a static hold but with walking thrown in, lol.

Anything that trains your static grip will be a boon to you. I've also found Dragen Exercises very good for grip endurance (they destroyed me!) - basically grab two 40lb dumbells, and do an alternating one arm cheat curl + push press. Cheat curl one DB up, almost clean it up while still holding the other one, then push press it, lower it, and repeat for the other arm and so on. If you can do a few sets of 20 you are a better man than i!

Other than that, dead hangs (hang from a pullup bar), thick bar training (wrap the bar/db in foam so the diameter is 2-4 inches and do curls or presses or just about anything with it), rope climbing if you have some gym ropes available.

Another good one which i would definitely do are plate 360s. Grab the smallest plate in the gym, pinch it between your thumb and forefinger, and spin it around through your fingers like you would twirl a pen or a drumstick through your fingers. Do them clockwise and counterclockwise for each hand. As many reps as possible, even if you keep dropping it. Aim for 30-50 reps or something. Its a nightmare.

I would pick an exercise for each regular gym day and put it at the end. 3-4 sets should do it. Keep doing the supersets as normal, and put straps on when your grip starts to give and save it for the grip exercise at the end.

The big point - no wrist curls. They are pointless for most weightlifters. Its like doing leg extensions to get used to squatting. Yeah it'll work, but it'll take forever and a day :P.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Static holds definitely, farmers walks are a static hold but with walking thrown in, lol.

Anything that trains your static grip will be a boon to you. I've also found Dragen Exercises very good for grip endurance (they destroyed me!) - basically grab two 40lb dumbells, and do an alternating one arm cheat curl + push press. Cheat curl one DB up, almost clean it up while still holding the other one, then push press it, lower it, and repeat for the other arm and so on. If you can do a few sets of 20 you are a better man than i!

Other than that, dead hangs (hang from a pullup bar), thick bar training (wrap the bar/db in foam so the diameter is 2-4 inches and do curls or presses or just about anything with it), rope climbing if you have some gym ropes available.

Another good one which i would definitely do are plate 360s. Grab the smallest plate in the gym, pinch it between your thumb and forefinger, and spin it around through your fingers like you would twirl a pen or a drumstick through your fingers. Do them clockwise and counterclockwise for each hand. As many reps as possible, even if you keep dropping it. Aim for 30-50 reps or something. Its a nightmare.

I would pick an exercise for each regular gym day and put it at the end. 3-4 sets should do it. Keep doing the supersets as normal, and put straps on when your grip starts to give and save it for the grip exercise at the end.

The big point - no wrist curls. They are pointless for most weightlifters. Its like doing leg extensions to get used to squatting. Yeah it'll work, but it'll take forever and a day :P.

Amazing! Thanks Gaz! I knew I'd get good info from you. You're like an Iron Chef of grip training.

No problems dude! Let me know how it goes!