Thread: Jog pace

Well, why are you jogging?

get a heart rate monitor to record some bio feedback

Originally Posted by Phineas

Well, why are you jogging?

Best I can do...?

Originally Posted by ceazur

Best I can do...?

What I meant was adjust your pace to meet whatever your goal(s) may be.

If you're just jogging for general fitness in your marine training then it doesn't really matter, as long as you're pushing yourself intensely enough. A 10:00 mile is brutal to some while for others a 5:00 mile is a walk in the park. We can't tell you what pace to jog. That's like telling someone on here what weight to lift.

Originally Posted by Phineas

What I meant was adjust your pace to meet whatever your goal(s) may be.

If you're just jogging for general fitness in your marine training then it doesn't really matter, as long as you're pushing yourself intensely enough. A 10:00 mile is brutal to some while for others a 5:00 mile is a walk in the park. We can't tell you what pace to jog. That's like telling someone on here what weight to lift.

I see. So 7 1/2 minute mile isnt pure dee shit. My goal is 6:00 Minute miles and 3 miles in 18 minutes. So i guess just steadily run daily and my weekly lower body routines and the increased stamina/endurance will come?

Originally Posted by ceazur

I see. So 7 1/2 minute mile isnt pure dee shit. My goal is 6:00 Minute miles and 3 miles in 18 minutes. So i guess just steadily run daily and my weekly lower body routines and the increased stamina/endurance will come?

Pretty much. Just make sure that you keep pushing yourself aerobically every time you run, just like you would push yourself anaerobically every time you lift. Progressive overload, if you want to call it that

Originally Posted by ceazur

I see. So 7 1/2 minute mile isnt pure dee shit. My goal is 6:00 Minute miles and 3 miles in 18 minutes. So i guess just steadily run daily and my weekly lower body routines and the increased stamina/endurance will come?

Not necessarily. If you lift at the same intensities, volumes, and frequencies, will your lifts improve?

I think its about conditioning yourself for your goals - its like doign those couple extra burnout sets, or have a spotter or work the negative on lifts - a little more each time will push you further the next time you run. I'm not a runner because of a tendency toward shinsplints originaiting in Jr High track, but when I do job, its about finding "the zone" where I can keep a pace for a duration - I guess that's what you'd want to keep workign up to. The more you do it, the more you'll get conditioned for faster and hitting "the zone" at a higher pace.

If your focus is to get to this particular pace, (i.e THIS is your goal and everythign else is secondary - e.g. build mass, better lifts, etc.) then I'd focus on that and don't spend a lot of time burning energy w/ lots of lower body work as that might be interfering w/ your conditioning for running. I think we all know that running & lifting are not the most mutually conducive goals.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

Not necessarily. If you lift at the same intensities, volumes, and frequencies, will your lifts improve?

I was a distance runner for 6 years and I found that simple repetition worked perfectly fine. As long as you're pushing within a certain percentage of your VO2 max then you'll progress.

It is definitely wise to incorporate a variety of hill work, intervals, fartlek training, speed, endurance, etc, but you can run the same route over and over and, oddly enough, you'll improve. Running is very different than bodybuilding.

For instance, in late-2006 I was at my worst for overtraining (I overtrained extremely from summer 2006 until september 2008 when I gave up running for BB'ing) I was running 23km a day! Not only is that ridiculous volume, but I ran the same route, at the same intensity, and eating only about 2500 calories a day -- if that. Despite all of this, I improved drastically

Running is a really weird sport. You can excel at it with poor training and horrendous diet.

Originally Posted by Phineas

Not only is that ridiculous volume, but I ran the same route, at the same intensity, and eating only about 2500 calories a day -- if that. Despite all of this, I improved drastically

Running is a really weird sport. You can excel at it with poor training and horrendous diet.

That seems right because I eat approximately 2k cals daily and run the same 3 mile route at about the same intensity ,and have managed to increase pretty dam fast. I was just wandering should I be running shorter distance at a faster pace that will wind me quicker or stay at a pace where I can run further.

Originally Posted by ceazur

That seems right because I eat approximately 2k cals daily and run the same 3 mile route at about the same intensity ,and have managed to increase pretty dam fast. I was just wandering should I be running shorter distance at a faster pace that will wind me quicker or stay at a pace where I can run further.

Even with running volume isn't necessary. I've seen elite marathon training programs based on high-intensity low-volume training (training runs around 5-8km for a 42.2km race).

I'm doing a 10k race in 2.5 hours (coffee time!) and I trained at distances of 3.5-6km tops 3 times a week. It never interfered with my bodybuilding. In fact, I went up on squats and deads. It's quality over quantity. If you eat right and stretch a lot then running doesn't have to interfere with heavy leg work.

Then again, I don't do "leg" days. I do full body 3 times a week, so I'm never brutalizing my legs. One compound for push and one for pull. That makes running easier.

Well I order insanity workout to see what it can do for me. We'll see. I'm going to make an epic proggy.

even though your getting replies from some board members, i suggest you go to a running message board. you wanna improve at running, talk to runners and coaches, and get their opinions. very nice of the bodybuilders to give advice, but i wouldnt listen to the advice. get it from a track or x-country coach.

Originally Posted by stepaukas

even though your getting replies from some board members, i suggest you go to a running message board. you wanna improve at running, talk to runners and coaches, and get their opinions. very nice of the bodybuilders to give advice, but i wouldnt listen to the advice. get it from a track or x-country coach.

Lol thanks. Although this is a BB forum doesn't mean only BB come here.. Phineas has just said he was a pro runner and still runs hard to the day. We have loads of different types of fitness pros here brosky.

Originally Posted by stepaukas

even though your getting replies from some board members, i suggest you go to a running message board. you wanna improve at running, talk to runners and coaches, and get their opinions. very nice of the bodybuilders to give advice, but i wouldnt listen to the advice. get it from a track or x-country coach.

As a former Boston Marathon qualifier I think I'm alright to give advice on how to make moderate improvements to someone's short distance running times. It's not rocket science. Running is one of the simplest sports. It's really just about mind over body. The physical side is simple. Do it, and you'll get better. There aren't all these complex variables like in other sports.

Phineas, this is interesting. I have a friend who just ran the Boston, and we were discussing strategies on how to manage "heartbreak hill".

I surmised it might be beneficial to sprint briefly prior to it, say about a mile out, and perhaps having consumed something like tyrosine and caffeine to stimulate a catecholamine release - then use the mobilized FFAs to help fuel you up the hill.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Built

Phineas, this is interesting. I have a friend who just ran the Boston, and we were discussing strategies on how to manage "heartbreak hill".

I surmised it might be beneficial to sprint briefly prior to it, say about a mile out, and perhaps having consumed something like tyrosine and caffeine to stimulate a catecholamine release - then use the mobilized FFAs to help fuel you up the hill.

Thoughts?

BUilt! You can't be using those big ass words on my thread. Geesh..

phineas

nice to hear a few x runners are now lifting.
what events did you run when you ran?
what were your best times from the mile upward?
i know MOST bodybuilders are on this site, thats why i suggested for the kid to visit a running forum.
i sure miss running.. last training run was in 1990..

Originally Posted by stepaukas

phineas

nice to hear a few x runners are now lifting.
what events did you run when you ran?
what were your best times from the mile upward?
i know MOST bodybuilders are on this site, thats why i suggested for the kid to visit a running forum.
i sure miss running.. last training run was in 1990..

I wont take that as disrespect an cause an e-fight over your rude comments.

Originally Posted by Built

Phineas, this is interesting. I have a friend who just ran the Boston, and we were discussing strategies on how to manage "heartbreak hill".

I surmised it might be beneficial to sprint briefly prior to it, say about a mile out, and perhaps having consumed something like tyrosine and caffeine to stimulate a catecholamine release - then use the mobilized FFAs to help fuel you up the hill.

Thoughts?

Caffeine is a major helper with running. I remember hearing about heartbreak hill. Mile 20, right? I never did proper research when I was a runner; I just overdid it all the time and learned through trial and error. I think how well you can take hills depends on how to start the race. Like this morning (ran awesome, by the way...it's the only race I still do, just for sentimental value (it was my goal race in 2003 when I was the fatty losing weight!)) my strategy was to start slow and run more with my hips. I learned weird ways to run with certain muscles more than others. I use my hips for a cleaner stride in the beginning so I'm not pushing with brute quad force. By trying to downplay use of my quads it makes it easier to not get caught up in the excitement of running with thousands of people. Of course, tons of people were passing me in the beginning (as always) but by allowing my body to gradually acclimatize to the poundage (especially since I haven't ran longer than 6km at once since last year's 10k) I find I'm better able to tap in to my body's strength and resources. By the time I hit 4km I'm warmed up and my body is acting as an efficient machine (bodybuilding has helped my running, actually, by "feeling" my muscles coordinating to move itself) and I begin to pass everyone in sight like it's childs play. At that point hills pose only mental barriers and not physical ones (i.e. it still hurts, but you at least have the physical ability to move your legs the way you need to).

I have no fancy terms or technical jargon to throw around. As I said, I knowingly did everything wrong as a runner. After a lifetime of obesity until I lost the weight at age 15 I just wanted to push myself and see what I was capable of. It became a sick obsessions of marking the kilometers down on paper and knowing I burned 2000 calories in an hour and a half, lol.

But, back to the hill, might as well bring the pace down. A marathon is 42.2 km...there's PLENTY of time to make up pace on flat ground.

Originally Posted by stepaukas

phineas

nice to hear a few x runners are now lifting.
what events did you run when you ran?
what were your best times from the mile upward?
i know MOST bodybuilders are on this site, thats why i suggested for the kid to visit a running forum.
i sure miss running.. last training run was in 1990..

Yes, now a much larger bodybuilder. I ran from late-2002 (started to lose weight...ya I was a fat kid) until September 7, 2008. I finished a half marathon that day, and later in the afternoon was obsessing as always about how skinny and unhappy I was with myself. My running had become stale, too. I wasn't enjoying it for the right reasons. It was just about calorie burning. So, I just went cold turkey, and turned to the world of bodybuilding, so that I could create the body and image I wanted my entire life. Of course, since then I've grown a genuine love the sport and art/science behind it.

Today was something like my 45th race. I use to do a lot when I was actually running competitively. I was never a "pro". I just ran/raced a lot.

My best times:

10km - 39:17 (Apr 2008 (the race I did today, but 2 years ago)

1/2 marathon - 1:25:12 (Oct 2007) (funny because at the time my best 10k time was 41:02, which means my half marathon time had an average pace that was faster than my best 10k time...meaning I ran faster for over twice the distance...go figure?)

marathon - 3:08:50 (May 2007) (my biggest accomplishment...me at 19 years old with a mere 145 lbs backing me up, lol...qualified for Boston with that one..never went though...things started getting carried away in 2008 and I realized I needed to slow down...then 8 months later I stopped all together..still regret not making it to Boston....too bad because I won't be a runner ever again, and that was an opportunity to compete in a world-class event...it's like Olympia in the sense that just to compete you have to qualify via another major competition)

As for this site, very few of our (respected) members are pure muscle bound jocks. This site is focused on bodybuilding, but really all about general fitness, health, and nutrition.

phineas, I wasn't talking about pacing. I was talking about hitting the wall.

ceazur
WTF you talking about????
chill brother!! at eaze!!!
in your other posts you sounded like you were 20 years old.
i wont call you kid and more. how about sir?

built
this is just my opinion, and i'm a nobody, but the upping the pace before an uphill is in my book, a bad way to race. make time up RUNNING the downhills. not letting momentum be your only way down.
of course you'll slow going uphill compared to your pace before the hill, so at the crest of the hill, do 20 quick steps(great way to train, doing quick steps on a 10 mile fartlek run)
it will really hurt, but it will put your cadence back to where it was on the flats before the slower hill.

you see the really great x-country runners running the downhills, and they really make up some ground.
then you see them hammering coming off a hill. mentally and physically hard to do, but you train this way to reach the next level..
.
i did a lot of downhill (ever so slight downhill) training to help leg turnover when i was trying to break the american record in the 1000 meters.

never was a long distance runner
52:xx for a 10 miler was my best..

when i see posts on running, i try to give a helping hand, but there is a lot more to running than just going out the front door and running.

stepaukas, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not thinking about saving any time. I'm looking at this to see if it could be a strategy to help you avoid hitting the wall.

Originally Posted by Built

stepaukas, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not thinking about saving any time. I'm looking at this to see if it could be a strategy to help you avoid hitting the wall.

From my understanding, all the "wall" really is is the body running out of its glycogen reserves, at which point it reverts to fat oxidation for fuel. So, your guess is as good as mine with the caffeine. Bringing carb gel packets helps. I use to use those on long runs, and they helped out a great deal. I hit the wall in my first marathon, but in the second I didn't hit the traditional wall. I did get brutally exhausted to the point that I almost forgot where I was, but, I actually got faster and more focused. In fact, I've never been more focused in my entire life than those last 10km. I owe that to the pace runners on the route. They were seasoned marathoners who wore pink bunny ears and had a shirt saying a certain finish time. So, if, like me, you wanted to run sub-3:10 you'd just run with that pace guide. I ran with the 3:10 pace guide from 10km to the end of the race.

I know you said you weren't asking about pace, but I think hitting the wall is inevitable. I mean, we are talking about running 42.2km. It's not natural or healthy. Your body is going to get fucked up. Best thing you can do is cope with it. Having someone to keep you going is definitely helpful.

Sprinting stimulates the release of catecholamine, which promotes lipolysis. My thought here was to use this to release FFAs, thus allowing the body to "switch fuel sources" more smoothly.

I may be completely off base here - it just struck me that since you need to rely on fat from this point, why not do something that promotes its availability as a fuel source?

Originally Posted by Built

Sprinting stimulates the release of catecholamine, which promotes lipolysis. My thought here was to use this to release FFAs, thus allowing the body to "switch fuel sources" more smoothly.

I may be completely off base here - it just struck me that since you need to rely on fat from this point, why not do something that promotes its availability as a fuel source?

Sounds pretty cool! Like I said, I never did my research when I was a runner, so I don't have fancy advice to offer, lol.

My only thought is it might be too difficult to throw in a sprint 20 miles in to a marathon. I guess it depends on the intensity and duration, but once you get in your pace early on it's hard to break it.