Thread: current routine

push pull legs

read the stickies!

I just posted in the new members forum, telling you to post in here.
What are your goals?
Is your diet right to accomplish those goals?

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I just posted in the new members forum, telling you to post in here.
What are your goals?
Is your diet right to accomplish those goals?

Thanks. I beat you to it!

With my height/build (long and lean arms and legs, with a little bit of chest/stomach fat) I want to add some size to my arms and shoulders to get more proportional. My chest and stomach are already tightening up. I think my arms look much better but if I see a picture of myself they still look much too skinny

I know little about nutrition, I've been able to get by with good genes. People marvel at the food I eat while still staying pretty slim.

MyK 3.0 - I have no idea what 'push pull legs' means but I will read the stickies

To get the look you want, you need to be concerned with three things: Diet, Training, and Rest.

Originally Posted by lincoln

I know little about nutrition, I've been able to get by with good genes.

I would post your typical diet, your stats, and goals in the diet forum.

As far as the training goes, if you read the stickies that should be more than enough for starting out.

Originally Posted by MyK 3.0

push pull legs

read the stickies!

Ok got it. So I'd be better off going to 3 workouts a week, with a rest day in between each?

Day 1: chest shoulder tri (push)
Day 3: back and biceps (pull)
Day 5: legs

Should I use my current exercises for each muscle group, forming a routine like this?

Day 1:

Chest

Bench press 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Pants up 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying fly 12, 10, 8, 6

Shoulders

Military press 12, 10, 8, 6
Lateral raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated reverse fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Shrugs 12, 10, 8, 6
Upright row 12, 10, 8, 6

Triceps

Skullcrushers 12, 10, 8, 6
Kickbacks 12, 10, 8, 6
One-armed overhead extension 12, 10, 8, 6

Day 3:

Biceps

Alt Standing Curl 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated concentration curls 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing curls 12, 10, 8, 6

Back

Standing wide row 12, 10, 8, 6
Deadlift 12, 10, 8, 6
One armed rows 12, 10, 8, 6
Day 5:

Legs

Squats 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing calf raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Lunges 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated toe raise 12, 10, 8, 6

Notes: Day 1 looks brutal. Day 5 is light, should I find more leg exercises and do my abs that day too?

Here's what I would recommend.

Day 1:

Bench press 3x8 (That's 3 sets of eight reps so you need to find a weight where you can't do 3x8. For example, you find a weight that you can get 8, 7, and 5 that would be fine. Once you can lift that weight for 3x8 you know you need to increase the weight again and work on getting that weight up to 3x8.)
Skullcrushers 2x8

Day 2:
Squats 3x8
Standing calf raise 4x12 (assuming these are weighted)
Lunges 2x8

Day 3:
Off

Day 4:
Pull-ups or Chin-ups 3x(of whatever you can)
If you can't do pull-ups or chins, do 3x8 sets of lat pulldowns.
One arm dumbell rows 3x8
Alt Standing Curl 2x8

Day 5:
Deadlift 3x8
Seated calf raises 3x12
Corner Press or Military Press 3x8
Lateral raises 2x12

interested, i think! i too also try

Originally Posted by Clapan

interested, i think! i too also try

holy shit! its Yoda!

Originally Posted by lincoln

Ok got it. So I'd be better off going to 3 workouts a week, with a rest day in between each?

Day 1: chest shoulder tri (push)
Day 3: back and biceps (pull)
Day 5: legs

Should I use my current exercises for each muscle group, forming a routine like this?

Day 1:

Chest

Bench press 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Pants up 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying fly 12, 10, 8, 6

Shoulders

Military press 12, 10, 8, 6
Lateral raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated reverse fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Shrugs 12, 10, 8, 6
Upright row 12, 10, 8, 6

Triceps

Skullcrushers 12, 10, 8, 6
Kickbacks 12, 10, 8, 6
One-armed overhead extension 12, 10, 8, 6

Day 3:

Biceps

Alt Standing Curl 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated concentration curls 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing curls 12, 10, 8, 6

Back

Standing wide row 12, 10, 8, 6
Deadlift 12, 10, 8, 6
One armed rows 12, 10, 8, 6
Day 5:

Legs

Squats 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing calf raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Lunges 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated toe raise 12, 10, 8, 6

Notes: Day 1 looks brutal. Day 5 is light, should I find more leg exercises and do my abs that day too?

make sure that you are balancing opposing movements with regards to weight, volume, and intesity. ex, dumbell press & dumbell rows, do the same weight and volume.

balance quad and ham dominant movements.

learn and apply periodization.

Originally Posted by lincoln

Ok got it. So I'd be better off going to 3 workouts a week, with a rest day in between each?

Day 1: chest shoulder tri (push)
Day 3: back and biceps (pull)
Day 5: legs

Should I use my current exercises for each muscle group, forming a routine like this?

Day 1:

Chest

Bench press 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Pants up 12, 10, 8, 6
Lying fly 12, 10, 8, 6

Shoulders

Military press 12, 10, 8, 6
Lateral raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated reverse fly 12, 10, 8, 6
Shrugs 12, 10, 8, 6
Upright row 12, 10, 8, 6

Triceps

Skullcrushers 12, 10, 8, 6
Kickbacks 12, 10, 8, 6
One-armed overhead extension 12, 10, 8, 6

Day 3:

Biceps

Alt Standing Curl 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated concentration curls 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing curls 12, 10, 8, 6

Back

Standing wide row 12, 10, 8, 6 (assume you mean bent-over rows)
Deadlift 12, 10, 8, 6
One armed rows 12, 10, 8, 6
Day 5:

Legs

Squats 12, 10, 8, 6
Standing calf raise 12, 10, 8, 6
Lunges 12, 10, 8, 6
Seated toe raise 12, 10, 8, 6

Notes: Day 1 looks brutal. Day 5 is light, should I find more leg exercises and do my abs that day too?

Add pullups OR pulldowns. The bolded lifts are essential. Well, calfs aren't essential. But, they won't get much development from squats, so it's okay to have some direct work.

Good stuff:

-nice to see you thinking in terms of push/pull
-aside from pullups, you've include many major compound lifts
-if you have deadlifts and squats you've immediately won respect on this board!
-3 days is a nice, modest approach to volume..plenty of time for rest

Not so good stuff:

-you have WAY too much isolation versus compound...isolation should be for singling out lagging muscles and further developing them after compound work has been used for a period..or to further strenghten lagging muscles to assist in your primary lifts
-deadlifts are a leg exercise
-don't bother with toe raises...that's a very specific exercise as it target the tibialis..the front calf muscle...this will get worked through out leg work
-your program is primarily upper body work...greatly imbalanced...the idea of push/pull is to balance everything...so maybe split legs into push and pull as well and have a 4th day

Also, what's a standing fly??? How would that work??

Originally Posted by Phineas

Also, what's a standing fly??? How would that work??

Yeah i'm not sure either, maybe cable crossovers?

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Yeah i'm not sure either, maybe cable crossovers?

Ya, that must be what's he's talking about.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Yeah i'm not sure either, maybe cable crossovers?

Im thinking standing lateral raises for shoulders.

Originally Posted by BC Lifter

Im thinking standing lateral raises for shoulders.

Doubt it. He said it's a chest lift. Probably crossovers, as they mimic the fly movement.

Originally Posted by Phineas

Add pullups OR pulldowns. The bolded lifts are essential. Well, calfs aren't essential. But, they won't get much development from squats, so it's okay to have some direct work.

Good stuff:

-nice to see you thinking in terms of push/pull
-aside from pullups, you've include many major compound lifts
-if you have deadlifts and squats you've immediately won respect on this board!
-3 days is a nice, modest approach to volume..plenty of time for rest

Not so good stuff:

-you have WAY too much isolation versus compound...isolation should be for singling out lagging muscles and further developing them after compound work has been used for a period..or to further strenghten lagging muscles to assist in your primary lifts
-deadlifts are a leg exercise
-don't bother with toe raises...that's a very specific exercise as it target the tibialis..the front calf muscle...this will get worked through out leg work
-your program is primarily upper body work...greatly imbalanced...the idea of push/pull is to balance everything...so maybe split legs into push and pull as well and have a 4th day

I'd like to add pull-ups, just can't find a good place to do them. I work out in the basement and the low ceilings at my height make it tricky. Any suggestions?

I know I'm somewhat limited with no equipment besides dumbbells. What some examples of push and pull leg exercises that I can do with no equipment?

Originally Posted by Phineas

Also, what's a standing fly??? How would that work??

Yeah, probably a bad name for it, wasn't sure what to call them

Let's see, how to describe.. arms up, elbows at 90 degrees, palms facing chest like I'm fielding a punt or a boxer in defensive stance. Keeping elbows locked and dumbbells parallel to floor, I separate my arms "opening" them up and then squeeze back together. Not sure if that explains it well..

Great advice for immediate course of action by all and speaking in longer term, don't forget to change your workout every 8 weeks or so to prevent adaptation. This will probably be your biggest ticket to long term success. I recently learned the importance of this and saw improvements on my own body by impementing periodic change of workouts so now just trying to spread the good news

Originally Posted by CaptainNapalm

Great advice for immediate course of action by all and speaking in longer term, don't forget to change your workout every 8 weeks or so to prevent adaptation. This will probably be your biggest ticket to long term success. I recently learned the importance of this and saw improvements on my own body by impementing periodic change of workouts so now just trying to spread the good news

I disagree.
Adaption is key. You want to switch your routine once you've adapted to your current routine. Setting a specific time to change routines is not the way to go. You need to be able to evaluate your progress and recognize when you've adapted to the routine, in order to get the most out of that routine. By ending a routine too early, you could rob yourself of your best gains in that routine.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Here's what I would recommend.

Day 1:

Bench press 3x8 (That's 3 sets of eight reps so you need to find a weight where you can't do 3x8. For example, you find a weight that you can get 8, 7, and 5 that would be fine. Once you can lift that weight for 3x8 you know you need to increase the weight again and work on getting that weight up to 3x8.)
Skullcrushers 2x8

Day 2:
Squats 3x8
Standing calf raise 4x12 (assuming these are weighted)
Lunges 2x8

Day 3:
Off

Day 4:
Pull-ups or Chin-ups 3x(of whatever you can)
If you can't do pull-ups or chins, do 3x8 sets of lat pulldowns.
One arm dumbell rows 3x8
Alt Standing Curl 2x8

Day 5:
Deadlift 3x8
Seated calf raises 3x12
Corner Press or Military Press 3x8
Lateral raises 2x12

Ok - just a quick clarification so I'm sure about something. It may be simple but I don't want to make any assumptions. When going through a particular workout should I complete ALL sets before moving to the next exercise or complete 1 set and move to the next exercise, then cycle back through until all sets are completed?

We'll use your suggestion for Day 5 as an example, should I do a set of 8 deadlifts, then rest and do another set of 8 deadlifts, then rest and do the last set and THEN move on to the seated calf raises? OR, should I do one set of 8 deadlifts, then 12 calf raises, etc.


On a side note thanks to everyone for being so helpful. I appreciate the advice.

complete all the sets in the movement before going on to the next movement

Someone rep Phineas. Apparently, rep is like herpes. I must spread it first.

Originally Posted by lincoln

Ok - just a quick clarification so I'm sure about something. It may be simple but I don't want to make any assumptions. When going through a particular workout should I complete ALL sets before moving to the next exercise or complete 1 set and move to the next exercise, then cycle back through until all sets are completed?

We'll use your suggestion for Day 5 as an example, should I do a set of 8 deadlifts, then rest and do another set of 8 deadlifts, then rest and do the last set and THEN move on to the seated calf raises? OR, should I do one set of 8 deadlifts, then 12 calf raises, etc.


On a side note thanks to everyone for being so helpful. I appreciate the advice.

Like m11 said

Originally Posted by m11

complete all the sets in the movement before going on to the next movement

I also recommend you apply the method I talked about for bench to at least deadlifts, squats, and pull-ups/lat-pulldowns.

Originally Posted by MyK 3.0

push pull legs

read the stickies!

Defintely push/pull upper/lower. Much better for you then isolation movements. Think of it this way. The more muscle being used in the movement, the more the heart pumps, the more the heart pumps, the more blood flow, the better it is for your muscles.

Originally Posted by lincoln

I'd like to add pull-ups, just can't find a good place to do them. I work out in the basement and the low ceilings at my height make it tricky. Any suggestions?

I know I'm somewhat limited with no equipment besides dumbbells. What some examples of push and pull leg exercises that I can do with no equipment?

In your case you'd do pullups on your "back" day. Pullups are a lat-dominant exercise. If you're following push/pull it would obviously be an upper pull -- vertical if you split your sessions in those terms.

No problem if you don't have a traditional pullup setup. I don't have this problem at my current gym because pulldowns seem more popular, but at my old gym there was only one straight bar for pullups which was just the top bar on the squat rack (I don't use angled bars because they make the lift easier). Rather than wait I would just go to Smith machine, set the bar to the highest setting, get under it and cross my legs together to basically make me shorter and perform the pullups off the Smith Machine bar.

If you don't have access to a Smith Machine then all you need is a bar with at least the length of of your arms extended to your knees, more or less.

Push pull for legs is no different than how you'd split upper push pull. Well, upper you have to cover horizontal and vertical, so actually lower workouts are simpler. Just do more exercises. For example, let's say you have a push and pull workout for legs each week, it might look like this...

Push:

-Back Squats
-Front Squats
-DB Bulgarian Split Squats

Pull:

-Deadlifts
-Rack Pulls
-Unilateral DB Romanian Deadlifts

Throw in some instinct calf training and you're golden.

The downside to this form of training is similar to "muscle group" splits. While push pull at least acknowledges the connections between various muscle groups and focusses on compounds, if you devote an entire workout to one plane of motion you're still brutalizing the dominant muscle(s) in a short period of time. This is why many people, myself include, prefer full-body workouts.

Technically, a full-body workout is one where you hit upper and lower, but I think a better way to look at it is training at least one compound for each plane of motion. Nothing gets overdone, you get frequent, healthier stimulus to the muscles, and you have an awesome pump all week!

Plus, there's no fluff lifts. While it's nice to experiment with more obscure lifts like Zercher or Jefferson squats, etc, in my opinion nothing tops a good old fashioned back squat or deadlift. With one compound per plane of motion you're pretty much taking the best lift (or at least your favourite) for each plane and squeezing it in one amazing, all-star session. It's the best of the best. I love doing squats, deadlifts, military presses, and pullups in the same session! It's amazing!

Example:

Lower Push - Back Squats
Upper Horiztonal Pull - BB Bent Over Rows
Upper Vertical Push - DB Military Press
Lower Pull - Deadlifts
Upper Vertical Pull - Pullups
Upper Horizontal Push - Flat BB Bench Press

And, if you can manage it maybe a dynamic power lift like a clean and press.

Originally Posted by Phineas

In your case you'd do pullups on your "back" day. Pullups are a lat-dominant exercise. If you're following push/pull it would obviously be an upper pull -- vertical if you split your sessions in those terms.

No problem if you don't have a traditional pullup setup. I don't have this problem at my current gym because pulldowns seem more popular, but at my old gym there was only one straight bar for pullups which was just the top bar on the squat rack (I don't use angled bars because they make the lift easier). Rather than wait I would just go to Smith machine, set the bar to the highest setting, get under it and cross my legs together to basically make me shorter and perform the pullups off the Smith Machine bar.

If you don't have access to a Smith Machine then all you need is a bar with at least the length of of your arms extended to your knees, more or less.

Push pull for legs is no different than how you'd split upper push pull. Well, upper you have to cover horizontal and vertical, so actually lower workouts are simpler. Just do more exercises. For example, let's say you have a push and pull workout for legs each week, it might look like this...

Push:

-Back Squats
-Front Squats
-DB Bulgarian Split Squats

Pull:

-Deadlifts
-Rack Pulls
-Unilateral DB Romanian Deadlifts

Throw in some instinct calf training and you're golden.

The downside to this form of training is similar to "muscle group" splits. While push pull at least acknowledges the connections between various muscle groups and focusses on compounds, if you devote an entire workout to one plane of motion you're still brutalizing the dominant muscle(s) in a short period of time. This is why many people, myself include, prefer full-body workouts.

Technically, a full-body workout is one where you hit upper and lower, but I think a better way to look at it is training at least one compound for each plane of motion. Nothing gets overdone, you get frequent, healthier stimulus to the muscles, and you have an awesome pump all week!

Plus, there's no fluff lifts. While it's nice to experiment with more obscure lifts like Zercher or Jefferson squats, etc, in my opinion nothing tops a good old fashioned back squat or deadlift. With one compound per plane of motion you're pretty much taking the best lift (or at least your favourite) for each plane and squeezing it in one amazing, all-star session. It's the best of the best. I love doing squats, deadlifts, military presses, and pullups in the same session! It's amazing!

Example:

Lower Push - Back Squats
Upper Horiztonal Pull - BB Bent Over Rows
Upper Vertical Push - DB Military Press
Lower Pull - Deadlifts
Upper Vertical Pull - Pullups
Upper Horizontal Push - Flat BB Bench Press

And, if you can manage it maybe a dynamic power lift like a clean and press.

Thanks. Lots of good info to digest. My head is swimming with ideas, just hoping not suffer from "paralysis by analysis"

One thing is clear, my 20 lb dumb bells -- while they served the purpose of getting me into working out -- aren't going to cut it if I want to do this right and maximize the ~2 hours per week that I'm going to dedicate to working out. I'm going to pick up the dusty old bench from my parents basement and buy a barbell. How much weight should I purchase to start? Any suggestions?

I've searched my basement, and there is simply no spot for a pull up bar. So my equipment will consist of my trusty dumb bells, a flat bench, and a bar bell. Based on what I've seen that should be enough.

Next I'll need to pick a routine methodology and go with it. I'm inclined to stick with a 4 day split routine, while understanding that a full body workout will ultimately be the goal. I need to acknowledge my limitations -- I'm still not "in shape" by any stretch, 6 months of light dumb bell training does not erase 15 years of drinking, smoking, couch lounging, and eating the equivalent of the blackened nuggets stuck to the bottom of a deep fryer. Split training should mean longer periods of rest for specific muscle groups and help me to avoid fatigue and overtraining. Also, If I can keep my work outs to approx 30 mins I'll be more likely to stick with it.

I'm going to get working on a revised routine, applying the principles you guys have been telling me about: push-pull-legs, using compound exercises whenever possible, and periodization. I'll re-post that routine once I have it.

Thanks again for the advice!

Originally Posted by lincoln

Thanks. Lots of good info to digest. My head is swimming with ideas, just hoping not suffer from "paralysis by analysis"

One thing is clear, my 20 lb dumb bells -- while they served the purpose of getting me into working out -- aren't going to cut it if I want to do this right and maximize the ~2 hours per week that I'm going to dedicate to working out. I'm going to pick up the dusty old bench from my parents basement and buy a barbell. How much weight should I purchase to start? Any suggestions?

I've searched my basement, and there is simply no spot for a pull up bar. So my equipment will consist of my trusty dumb bells, a flat bench, and a bar bell. Based on what I've seen that should be enough.

Next I'll need to pick a routine methodology and go with it. I'm inclined to stick with a 4 day split routine, while understanding that a full body workout will ultimately be the goal. I need to acknowledge my limitations -- I'm still not "in shape" by any stretch, 6 months of light dumb bell training does not erase 15 years of drinking, smoking, couch lounging, and eating the equivalent of the blackened nuggets stuck to the bottom of a deep fryer. Split training should mean longer periods of rest for specific muscle groups and help me to avoid fatigue and overtraining. Also, If I can keep my work outs to approx 30 mins I'll be more likely to stick with it.

I'm going to get working on a revised routine, applying the principles you guys have been telling me about: push-pull-legs, using compound exercises whenever possible, and periodization. I'll re-post that routine once I have it.

Thanks again for the advice!

We can't suggest weights for you because everyone's strength is different. There is no "good" or "bad" weight to lift. What I will suggest is buy a variety of plates so you don't have to make large jumps in sets because sometimes the slightest change is all you need. Also, make sure you get heavy enough so you have room to move up and perform maximal lifting occasionally.

Re: pullups. If you can find a way to lodge your BB in between two spaces safely that might work. If not, no sweat, maybe just stick to horizontal pulling like bent-over rows. You can do so much with what you've got. You can also do bent-arm BB pullovers to isolate your lats if you want a little extra. But, I'd seriously look into finding a way to do pullups; they're too crucial to not have in a program.

I like how determined you sound. It's a really good thing that you're geared to learn about proper training. One thing though, have you posted in the diet section? If not you should get on that because that's equally if not more important than the training.

form is king