Thread: Biceps

having a bicep peak is determined by genetics, not training methods.

as far as bicep training, personally I prefer preacher curls.

Originally Posted by Prince

having a bicep peak is determined by genetics, not training methods.

as far as bicep training, personally I prefer preacher curls.

So if I don't genetically have a peak than there is no possible way at all to get one?

For those that do have the potential for peaks, did you know right away or was it after a length of training before you really saw definition? ...assuming one has already been training awhile..

Well, the amount of fat covering your arms will hide the appearance of your peak. Drop some body fat and it will look a bit better.

Preacher Curls (best IMO)
Standing BB Curls
Alt. DB Curls
Hammer Curls
Reverse BB Curls
Cable Curls w/bar
Cable Curls w/ropes


Pick 3 and do 4x6-12, altern8 doing diff ones each w/o. It's not fukkin rocket science.

Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf

Preacher Curls (best IMO)
Standing BB Curls
Alt. DB Curls
Hammer Curls
Reverse BB Curls
Cable Curls w/bar
Cable Curls w/ropes


Pick 3 and do 4x6-12, altern8 doing diff ones each w/o. It's not fukkin rocket science.

Why only three? Also what does IMO mean?

IMO = in my opinion

3 sets with heavy weights will stress the muscle fibers enough to make micro tears and promote growth. You will feel the soreness which is the tiny microscopic tearing. To some degree, your size is predetermined. The muscle belly is covered by fascia..Its like a balloon skin covering the muscle fiber. Its incredibly strong and doesnt allow for growth past a point it is programmed to reach. To get freaky big, you would have to take extreme measures.

Originally Posted by cheappinz

3 sets with heavy weights will stress the muscle fibers enough to make micro tears and promote growth. You will feel the soreness which is the tiny microscopic tearing. To some degree, your size is predetermined. The muscle belly is covered by fascia..Its like a balloon skin covering the muscle fiber. Its incredibly strong and doesnt allow for growth past a point it is programmed to reach. To get freaky big, you would have to take extreme measures.

This helped a lot, thanks. I've seen my peak seem to grow but when I read the first few posts on here I thought maybe I was seeing things. So it can grow but only to a certain point that I can't control.

Yeah I'm not interested in freaky big, or extreme measures. Just definition.

If your looking for definition/little more size, I would reccomend DB Hammer curls - 21s. If your looking for overall gun size, I would concentrate on your triceps.

I was always told that seated incline bicep curls are a great way to get the peak, try them out they are a killer.

Good luck

Originally Posted by N_I_C_K

So if I don't genetically have a peak than there is no possible way at all to get one?

that is correct sir.

Originally Posted by davegmb

I was always told that seated incline bicep curls are a great way to get the peak, try them out they are a killer.

Good luck

I do seated curls like you said, but never incline. Today is a bicep day so I'll be sure to give them a try.

You can't change the natural shape of your muscle, if this is what you mean by developing the peak. Only thing you can do is make your biceps bigger and lean out your arms so they really show. Only thing I do and probably will ever do for biceps are standing barbell curls, hammer curls and preacher curls.

Originally Posted by CaptainNapalm

You can't change the natural shape of your muscle, if this is what you mean by developing the peak. Only thing you can do is make your biceps bigger and lean out your arms so they really show.

I tried telling him this but I don't think he wants to believe it.

Originally Posted by N_I_C_K

Why only three? Also what does IMO mean?

You really don't need to do more than 12 sets per workout on biceps. So, 3 exercises @ 4x6-12 each, changing up the exercises each workout.

GICH!

Originally Posted by N_I_C_K

What are some good things to do to increase peak in your bicep? Are there specific workouts that target whatever it is that increases peak?

Also note that, while genetics ultimately determines the shape of your muscle, the smaller it is and more fat covering it the harder it will be to see the true shape of your muscle.

Even if you're genetically gifted with nice bicep peaks they won't show very well without some mass and of course relatively low bodyfat.

What is your routine? Not arm work, I mean everything.

Also, what's your diet like?

Originally Posted by Phineas

Also note that, while genetics ultimately determines the shape of your muscle, the smaller it is and more fat covering it the harder it will be to see the true shape of your muscle.

Even if you're genetically gifted with nice bicep peaks they won't show very well without some mass and of course relatively low bodyfat.

What is your routine? Not arm work, I mean everything.

Also, what's your diet like?

I don't think you could have answered that any better. That's precisely what I wanted. Thanks.

Diet is 100% of my body weight in protein and around 50-65% my body weight in carbs. I'm not exactly looking to get any smaller or weigh less than I do. I'm losing a little bit of weight daily, but it varies so I think my diet is solid.

Routine: bicep/back/fore arms/neck day, chest/shoulder/tricep day, legs day. Cardio everyday. Abs every other day.

Biceps: standing curls, seated hammer curls, 21's on a machine that uses free weights. Sometimes I like to look at my progress so I'll do a set of curls with an elastic band (minimal pressure) just to look. Not really a workout but figured I'd throw it in there.
Back: Row, straight pull downs, sideways pull down (for lat), sometimes this other machine depending on energy that's like a leaning row? Idk how I could describe it.
Fore arms: fore arms curls in front, fore arms curls in back.
Neck: shrugs.

Chest: bench press (depends on mood), flies, DB bench. Sometimes power/buttefly push-ups.
Shoulders: DB incline, 21's for shoulder OR SIU military, military.
Triceps:

Legs: Squat, push press, seated calf raises, standing calf raises, quad machine x 2, and lunges (most of the time)

Cardio: 30 minutes bike (daily) and on legs days treadmill and stair stepper for 10 minutes.

Abs: 2x25 sit ups with 15lbs DB's, 50x1 side to sides with 20lbs medicine ball, 25x2 dead horse crunches with 20lbs medicine ball, 50x2 side crunches, 3x10 each way (left, middle, right) leg raises where you hold yourself up and back rests on something? Finally hold my legs around 6 inches above ground for 60 seconds.

Originally Posted by N_I_C_K

I don't think you could have answered that any better. That's precisely what I wanted. Thanks.

Diet is 100% of my body weight in protein and around 50-65% my body weight in carbs. I'm not exactly looking to get any smaller or weigh less than I do. I'm losing a little bit of weight daily, but it varies so I think my diet is solid.

Routine: bicep/back/fore arms/neck day, chest/shoulder/tricep day, legs day. Cardio everyday. Abs every other day.

Biceps: standing curls, seated hammer curls, 21's on a machine that uses free weights. Sometimes I like to look at my progress so I'll do a set of curls with an elastic band (minimal pressure) just to look. Not really a workout but figured I'd throw it in there.
Back: Row, straight pull downs, sideways pull down (for lat), sometimes this other machine depending on energy that's like a leaning row? Idk how I could describe it.
Fore arms: fore arms curls in front, fore arms curls in back.
Neck: shrugs.

Chest: bench press (depends on mood), flies, DB bench. Sometimes power/buttefly push-ups.
Shoulders: DB incline, 21's for shoulder OR SIU military, military.
Triceps:

Legs: Squat, push press, seated calf raises, standing calf raises, quad machine x 2, and lunges (most of the time)

Cardio: 30 minutes bike (daily) and on legs days treadmill and stair stepper for 10 minutes.

Abs: 2x25 sit ups with 15lbs DB's, 50x1 side to sides with 20lbs medicine ball, 25x2 dead horse crunches with 20lbs medicine ball, 50x2 side crunches, 3x10 each way (left, middle, right) leg raises where you hold yourself up and back rests on something? Finally hold my legs around 6 inches above ground for 60 seconds.

-don't bother with wrist curls...if you want extra forearm development go for grip work like farmers walks
-I'd avoid the whole 21s band-wagon...people like catchy mainstream programs, but you don't need to get that complicated...push something, pull something, and do something for your legs....and do it with a full range of motion
-ditch shrugs
-not enough leg work..you're training your upper body drastically more than your legs, which comprise half of your body and are growth hormone gold mines
-you don't need to do cardio every day....unless you just really wanna be good at doing cardio every day..
-push press isn't a leg lift..it's a full-body power lift...when used just as the push press and not as part of a clean and press it's usually intended to follow shoulder press or military press to further exhaust the already-fatigued delts that can no longer perform controlled movements
-START DEADLIFTING...full body, heavy legs, and believe it or not arms

train your legs and your arms will grow...again, you can't change the shape of your biceps, but if you DO have a good peak and they're just not big enough to notice then focussing on compound lifts is a good start to making them grow


We need more diet info. Saying bodyweight in protein tells me nothing.

What are your typical day's meals? What foods? How much of those foods? How many calories does this equate to? How many grams of fat, carbs, etc. How much water? Etc.

Also, please note that if you're losing weight you're on a calorie deficit. That's fine, but if you want more mass in your biceps then you better up those calories because you won't gain muscle on a deficit -- unless you're a total beginner or on juice.

Originally Posted by Phineas

-don't bother with wrist curls...if you want extra forearm development go for grip work like farmers walks
-I'd avoid the whole 21s band-wagon...people like catchy mainstream programs, but you don't need to get that complicated...push something, pull something, and do something for your legs....and do it with a full range of motion
-ditch shrugs
-not enough leg work..you're training your upper body drastically more than your legs, which comprise half of your body and are growth hormone gold mines
-you don't need to do cardio every day....unless you just really wanna be good at doing cardio every day..
-push press isn't a leg lift..it's a full-body power lift...when used just as the push press and not as part of a clean and press it's usually intended to follow shoulder press or military press to further exhaust the already-fatigued delts that can no longer perform controlled movements
-START DEADLIFTING...full body, heavy legs, and believe it or not arms

train your legs and your arms will grow...again, you can't change the shape of your biceps, but if you DO have a good peak and they're just not big enough to notice then focussing on compound lifts is a good start to making them grow


We need more diet info. Saying bodyweight in protein tells me nothing.

What are your typical day's meals? What foods? How much of those foods? How many calories does this equate to? How many grams of fat, carbs, etc. How much water? Etc.

Also, please note that if you're losing weight you're on a calorie deficit. That's fine, but if you want more mass in your biceps then you better up those calories because you won't gain muscle on a deficit -- unless you're a total beginner or on juice.

To best honest, I don't know much of anything when it comes to legs. My knowledge is very basic. I meant leg press not push press by the way. I do 21's for shoulder but they aren't like bicep 21's. I push outside 7 times, straight 7 times, and above my head 7 times. I get a pretty good workout that way. Today I replaced 21's (biceps) with another type of curls that my friend showed me, squatting curls? They were good but I've never heard of them before though but I really was feeling it when I was doing them.

Typical meals: Turkey links everyday for breakfast. Lunch usually consists of yogurt, 2 slim jims/pepperoni stick, some sort of fruit, propel to drink, and some sort of sandwich either peanut butter/tuna/turkey/ham/roast beef. Dinner usually either a tuna sandwich, some form of beef, steak, peanut butter sandwich, or chicken breast. I also mix my whey protein with chocolate milk after I workout.

I'm not really interested in losing weight anymore. I want stronger, yet more defined arms/abs/body/legs. What should I do to achieve that? Change my diet, workout, or anything. I'll do it. I don't care what it takes to get ripped. I'll do anything that isn't illegal, dangerous, or anything like that. Obviously though. Hell I'll re-do my entire program if I have too, log it all, whatever it takes.

Originally Posted by N_I_C_K

To best honest, I don't know much of anything when it comes to legs. My knowledge is very basic. I meant leg press not push press by the way. I do 21's for shoulder but they aren't like bicep 21's. I push outside 7 times, straight 7 times, and above my head 7 times. I get a pretty good workout that way. Today I replaced 21's (biceps) with another type of curls that my friend showed me, squatting curls? They were good but I've never heard of them before though but I really was feeling it when I was doing them.

Read the stickies in the training section for more info on training legs. It's very important that you understand the value of leg training.

Honestly man I'd just ditch the curls all together for a while.



Typical meals: Turkey links everyday for breakfast. Lunch usually consists of yogurt, 2 slim jims/pepperoni stick, some sort of fruit, propel to drink, and some sort of sandwich either peanut butter/tuna/turkey/ham/roast beef. Dinner usually either a tuna sandwich, some form of beef, steak, peanut butter sandwich, or chicken breast. I also mix my whey protein with chocolate milk after I workout.

Still isn't detailed enough, but good enough to know that it's not good enough. Use fitday to track your macros and post in the diet section. I know this part seems like a pain in the ass, but take it from me once you're willing to go through the diet lessons and really get down to the nitty gritty that's when you start seeing serious results. Anyone can go lift dumbbells and barbells for an hour. A serious lifter's work is in the kitchen.

I'm not really interested in losing weight anymore. I want stronger, yet more defined arms/abs/body/legs. What should I do to achieve that? Change my diet, workout, or anything. I'll do it. I don't care what it takes to get ripped. I'll do anything that isn't illegal, dangerous, or anything like that. Obviously though. Hell I'll re-do my entire program if I have too, log it all, whatever it takes.

Definition has nothing to do with training; it's purely body fat. The leaner you are, the more "toned" you appear. The 400 lb powerlifter at 30% bodyfat has insanely toned quads, but he just has too much fat covering them.

If you want to develop more muscle you'll need to run a caloric surplus. Again, this is why you should post in the diet section. If you already eat the same foods every day then all you have to do is make one major change and eat that every day. It doesn't have to be ridiculously complicated. I don't even track my calories. I just did trial and error with the foods I know I need to get what I need and eventually I found how much and when I need to eat for me to perform my best and make gains.

So, I think you have good info on training for now. Post in the diet section and let's take it from there.

See comments.

Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.

Thanks Phineas. I'm going to start keeping track on Fitday. Appreciate it. But why should I ditch shrugs?

Thanks Flathead. I'll stop doing those as often as I do.

He's probably telling you to ditch shrugs as most people don't do them correctly & do more damage than good.

Originally Posted by Flathead

Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.

Farmers walks are simple. You grab a couple dumbbells, hold them out at your side, and walk. Simple yet brutal. They're primarily for grip purposes, but it's really a full body effort -- even cardio.

The whole concept of failure is abused amonst newer lifters. They think hitting failure is the path to muscle growth. This was a concept made popular by, ironically, my idol Arnold Schwarzenagger. However, since his prime 35 years ago much has been learned. We now know that training to failure has profound damaging effects on the central nervous system when done regularly. When you hit true muscular failure (concentric failure) you're motor units begin to shut off and trigger muscle fibers to cease contraction as a preventative measure. It's your body's way of saying "slow the fuck down, asshole, you're killing me!" Training to failure occassionally and only on the last set of particular lifts can be beneficial, but doing it routinely is a recipe for overtraining.

Also, I said to ditch the 21s because, even if it was an intelligent program (which I don't think it is..I think it's stupid and just catchy because it gives a false sense of complexity when really there's no rhyme or reason), you're still just following all the trendy magazines. To be successful you need to learn to write your own programs, or at least understand the rationale behind their structure. I take advice on programs. My current program is from Gaz. I only modified it slightly. However, I understand why everything is arranged as such. This is the problem with the mainstream "programs". They're sold as a golden ticket to being ripped, but (the program's lack of credibility aside) the lifters don't even understand what they're doing to their body or why.

Originally Posted by Flathead

He's probably telling you to ditch shrugs as most people don't do them correctly & do more damage than good.

I said to ditch shrugs because they work only the upper traps. The traps extend down to the mid-back and are compose of the upper, mid, and lower fibres, of which the latters comprises the majority of mass. If you've determiend your upper traps as weak point or you want extra assistance from that muscle on a major lift then by all means use shrugs. However, I can tell a newb program from a non-newb and when I see shrugs as a part of it I know it's because they just see other guys doing them, they're easy as hell to lift a load of weight, and they develop one of the esthetique muscles viewed from the front.

Deadlifts, cleans, and farmer walks will put size on your traps that shrugs never would.

Originally Posted by Vlar

For those that do have the potential for peaks, did you know right away or was it after a length of training before you really saw definition? ...assuming one has already been training awhile..

At first, no. After a while of working out you'll be able to notice. I always have people that talk shit because my peak, say's it looks weird lol SCREW EM! haha

Originally Posted by Flathead

Phineas, what are farmers walks?? 21s for biceps are great for failure sets, I would reccomend these for 4 sets, about every 3rd week.

Honestly can't reccomend farmer's walks enough, whether you care about grip strength or not. Don't only train your grip, but your core stability, the whole trap complex, hell even the biceps and shoulders are involved - not to mention your entire legs and lower back. This exercise has it all!