Old School 5X5 Squat Workout

**Will Brink** · 05-19-2010, 12:41 PM

Old School 5x5 Squat day.

Below is a recent 5×5 squat workout I did with a few sets of leg presses. The 5×5 is a classic old school but effective program. On my 5×5 squat day, I will often do 2-3 sets of leg press afterward for 3×6. Hamstring work will be done in another workout.

Although the 5×5 is an excellent stand alone program, it can also be incorporated into other programs as I have with my Hybrid program where it’s introduced at specific intervals within a program, that alters volume, loading, reps, etc. For example, BBR member Sumi outlines some of the variations that can be used in her new section following the Hybrid Program.

There are also some great stand-alone 5X5 programs out there people may want to look into and try for say a 10-12 week block to get beyond a plateau. I find one common area of confusion of the 5X5 is loading. After warming up, all sets in the 5X5 are in the 80-85% 1RM range. Taking appropriate rest between sets to allow you to complete all 5 sets using that loading – using acceptable form – is the essential component of the 5X5.

As for form, I think Coach Staley gives good advice in his article “Top Ten Stealth Strategies for Maximizing Your Strength Training Results” when he advises “Terminate the training component when the quality of the performance erodes by 10% or more”

That advice is really for intermediate – advanced lifters who know the difference between good form and bad, and will then know where their form has degraded enough to know when to stop and to gauge appropriate loading for a given exercise/set.

Beginners – early intermediate lifters should aim for perfect form on their exercises until they have the experience to know where and when going slightly outside perfect form is acceptable and productive, and that takes time and training to master. Fact is, many never do, but that’s another issue.

Obviously, exercises chosen for 5X5 are going to be your compound multi joint best “bang for the buck” movements that work large numbers of muscles simultaneously such as: squats (front, or back!), deadlifts, bench presses (and their variations), various types of pull-ups, etc.

One does not do a 5×5 program of leg extensions, concentration curls, and one arm side laterals…. 8-)

Try a classic old school 5X5 program for a change of pace.

**davegmb** · 05-19-2010, 04:33 PM

So its for strength this then not mass, because im looking to bulk and im doing 5 x 8/9 at the minute.

**Hoglander** · 05-19-2010, 04:44 PM

I'm speechless

**DOMS** · 05-19-2010, 04:51 PM

I'm doing a 5x5 routine right now. This is the second time I've done. I made great gains in strength and busted through all of my PRs.

It's a great program.

**Will Brink** · 05-19-2010, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

I'm doing a 5x5 routine right now. This is the second time I've done. I made great gains in strength and busted through all of my PRs.

It's a great program.

Agreed, it has many potential uses and getting to new PRs is common with the 5X5

Would have been another plate per side for me "back in the day" but all things considered, I can live with it.

**Will Brink** · 05-19-2010, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by davegmb

So its for strength this then not mass, because im looking to bulk and im doing 5 x 8/9 at the minute.

Say what now?

Lots of big strong people have done 5X5 and strength is always essential to gaining LBM.

**davegmb** · 05-19-2010, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hoglander

I'm speechless

speechless about what?

**Hoglander** · 05-19-2010, 05:41 PM

Stuff a good global citizen should be speechless about as to promote the greater good.

**davegmb** · 05-19-2010, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hoglander

Stuff a good global citizen should be speechless about as to promote the greater good.

O right, good shout

**davegmb** · 05-19-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Will Brink

Say what now?

Lots of big strong people have done 5X5 and strength is always essential to gaining LBM.

Im sorry if you took this the wrong way, because thats not the way it was intended i promise you. It was a genuine question, i see so much written saying the bulk range is 6-12 or something similar i was just politely asking if the 5x5 would not work for me in terms of my current goals. Hope i havnt caused offence mate.

**Will Brink** · 05-19-2010, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by davegmb

Im sorry if you took this the wrong way, because thats not the way it was intended i promise you. It was a genuine question, i see so much written saying the bulk range is 6-12 or something similar i was just politely asking if the 5x5 would not work for me in terms of my current goals. Hope i havnt caused offence mate.

No offense at all. Depending on where you are at in your experience levels, goals, etc, 5X5 can be just what is needed to take your strength and muscle mass to the next level.

**davegmb** · 05-19-2010, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Will Brink

No offense at all. Depending on where you are at in your experience levels, goals, etc, 5X5 can be just what is needed to take your strength and muscle mass to the next level.

Cheers mate, just so much info out there, gets very confusing...........

**Will Brink** · 05-20-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hoglander

I'm speechless

If you have expert advice to give on the topic, feel free to give it.

**Phineas** · 05-20-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by davegmb

So its for strength this then not mass, because im looking to bulk and im doing 5 x 8/9 at the minute.

Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style. It's all how you diet.

**Will Brink** · 05-20-2010, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Phineas

Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style. It's all how you diet.

I wouldn't agree at all with that statement.

**.:überfranz:.** · 05-24-2010, 01:25 AM

speaking about mass, usually after a strength protocol as 5x5, or even progressions like 5x5 6x4 7x3, I always include a couple of exercises in my WO at higher rep range, usually 3-4 series at 8-10 rep, and sometimes even 15-20, just to shock a bit my muscles. this should be a good approach for those who train for strength but still want some hypertrophy and pumping.

**Gazhole** · 05-24-2010, 03:58 AM

I gained shitloads of strength and size on a program that consisted entirely of 3's and 5's. Progressive overload and periodization are greater determinants of growth than a particular rep range, from what i've found in myself and others.

And lots of calories, obviously. That goes without saying!

The difference between 5 and 6 reps in a set is negligable, yet 6-12 is always said to be best for growth, and 1-5 not so much. Why not 5 reps? Why not 13 for that matter?

I think 5x5 works so well because theres a lot of volume, and its still pretty heavy. The total volume is only one rep higher than say, 4x6, but the weight is heavier, and for the negligable reduction of 1 rep from each set, you have a whole extra set to push through.

I don't know anybody who hasn't had good results from 5x5.

**cxpharm** · 05-24-2010, 09:54 PM

5x5 is great. Low reps, High weight= Massive strength gains

**soxmuscle** · 05-24-2010, 11:22 PM

sets of 5, 3, and even 2 are pretty much as high as I go for bench/squat.

**cxpharm** · 05-24-2010, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

sets of 5, 3, and even 2 are pretty much as high as I go for bench/squat.

Same here bro, forgot to mention as I work my way up in weight I'll throw in some sets of 2 and 1.

For example.

I'll do 5x5 and if I still feel like I have something in the tank I'll throw on like 250 and do 2 reps. Then like 265 and get one rep and end it.

Seems to work well.

**Will Brink** · 05-25-2010, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

sets of 5, 3, and even 2 are pretty much as high as I go for bench/squat.

A few of the reps are a tad above legal, most are parallel or slightly below. Most lifters working at 80+ 1RM will squat in that range. Mine tend to be higher in the early reps and get deeper, while others it's the reverse. For example, Jim Wendler:

Does that look much different then my depth? Nope. There's a time and a place for ATG squats, and a time and place for parallel.

If you have a vid of yourself squatting under load you feel demonstrates what is the perfect form, by all means, post it.

**davegmb** · 05-25-2010, 07:19 AM

Changed my deadlift to 5x5 this week due to this article, hopefully see some strength and size gains with it. My squats are on friday coming, do you think i should change them to 5x5 too, at the minute im doing 5x8 on squats and looking to pack on muscle?

**Will Brink** · 05-25-2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by davegmb

Changed my deadlift to 5x5 this week due to this article, hopefully see some strength and size gains with it. My squats are on friday coming, do you think i should change them to 5x5 too, at the minute im doing 5x8 on squats and looking to pack on muscle?

I wouldn't just arbitrarily add 5x5 to your program. I would find a 5x5 program that you feel fits your needs and follow it. There are variations of the 5x5. A Google search turns of a bunch:

Google

**Will Brink** · 05-25-2010, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by cxpharm

Seems to work well.

But it's not a 5X5 program either.

**gtbmed** · 05-25-2010, 09:30 AM

The Starr/Pendlay 5x5 program is really, really good. The biggest problem people have with these types of programs, though, is overestimating maxes and underestimating the difficulty of the program. It's not easy at all.

I'm currently doing a program more like Rippetoe's, but the general premise is similar.

**Will Brink** · 05-25-2010, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by gtbmed

It's not easy at all.

Word.

**CaptainNapalm** · 05-25-2010, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by davegmb

So its for strength this then not mass, because im looking to bulk and im doing 5 x 8/9 at the minute.

If you're looking to bulk I would strongly suggest "The 20 rep squat program". I'm currently on my fourth week of the program and have gained 6 lbs throughout my whole body. I have another 2.5 weeks on this program and I remain confident that at the end of it I will have gained 10 lbs of mass in 6 weeks.

You can find this routine on gaz's website which also has other great workouts there:

getlifting.info » Hypertrophy Workout Programs

Try it and you won't be dissapointed.

**juggernaut** · 05-25-2010, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Will Brink

I wouldn't agree at all with that statement.

Explain, please. Perhaps with some real data. I personally think you're full of shit...but that's just me.

**Will Brink** · 05-26-2010, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Explain, please. Perhaps with some real data.

And what's your background for reading/interpreting data?

The burden of proof is on those who make the claim. Where's the data showing "Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style."

You actually think 5lb for 100 reps is going to be equal to 300lbs for six in training effects and all that matters between following those two protocols is the diet? There's no lack of data BTW showing different training effects with different training protocols.

The statement:

"Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style. It's all how you diet." Is simply wrong. If you can't figure that out...

**juggernaut** · 05-26-2010, 06:54 AM

What's your professional background? Where's your objective data? Make a statement like that and prepare to back it up....or did they not teach you that in ACE course book?

Originally Posted by Will Brink

And what's your background for reading/interpreting data?

The burden of proof is on those who make the claim. Where's the data showing "Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style."

You actually think 5lb for 100 reps is going to be equal to 300lbs for six in training effects and all that matters between following those two protocols is the diet? There's no lack of data BTW showing different training effects with different training protocols.

The statement:

"Mass can come from any rep range and/or training style. It's all how you diet." Is simply wrong. If you can't figure that out...

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