Thread: Front squats in the smith machine?

I think it sort of takes away from one of the major benefits of the lift. Front squats require a lot of core stabilization and if you do them on the smith you're taking that away.

It's like doing zerchers in the smith machine - what's the point?

What do you find awkward about front squats with a free bar?

People will generally feel awkward and uncomfortable when doing a front squat for the first time, especially if they have been back squatting for a long time prior.

It is the same way with any movement, really. I don't remember doing any exercise for the first time without it feeling awkward. Sometimes it is better to to try to fix something that is uncomfortable rather than discarded it all together.

Plus, the degree of total body stabilization and utilization will not occur with the smith machine front squat. Whether or not that is important to you is up to you.

Originally Posted by fufu

What do you find awkward about front squats with a free bar?

People will generally feel awkward and uncomfortable when doing a front squat for the first time, especially if they have been back squatting for a long time prior.

It is the same way with any movement, really. I don't remember doing any exercise for the first time without it feeling awkward. Sometimes it is better to to try to fix something that is uncomfortable rather than discarded it all together.

Plus, the degree of total body stabilization and utilization will not occur with the smith machine front squat. Whether or not that is important to you is up to you.

Come on, yeah any new excercise is demanding fufu ill give you that but the front squat is tough. Ive tried the grip where you have it in your fingers with your wrists bent back but the strain on my wrists felt like i was going to do some damage, obviously arent flexible enough for it. I then tried the crossed arm approach but couldnt balance that with the free bar so used it on the smith machine and felt great, still get sore quads the day after.

Work on your wrist flexibility.

I would rather be doing extra sets of barbell squats than smith machine front squats at all. You have to get use to the movement and start off with very light weight in comparison to what you normally squat. Slowly progress with the weight and before you know it the movement will not feel that akward anymore.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

Work on your wrist flexibility.

How do you do that?

Originally Posted by davegmb

Come on, yeah any new excercise is demanding fufu ill give you that but the front squat is tough. Ive tried the grip where you have it in your fingers with your wrists bent back but the strain on my wrists felt like i was going to do some damage, obviously arent flexible enough for it. I then tried the crossed arm approach but couldnt balance that with the free bar so used it on the smith machine and felt great, still get sore quads the day after.

I can't stand the bent wrist hold. Ugh...it blows. I do the crossover. The real secret is to raise your elbows up so that you create a cradle with your delts and traps to hold the bar. I then use my hands to keep the bar from pressing to hard on my throat.

Your posts begs the question: how do you hold it when you do it on the Smith machine?

Do what I did to learn fronts: use straps.

I've posted about this before:

Originally Posted by Built

I couldn't do them that way at first either. What saved me was the "Poliquin strap trick":

Poliquin strap trick for front squats
u-tube demo of someone using them for a 500-lb front squat

I used that strap trick for over a year before my wrists became flexible enough to do my fronts strapless (yes, that DID sound sexier than it actually is...). I found my wrist flexibility just sorta happened over time, just from holding the straps. I still use them for my heavier fronts - anything heavier than about 155 and my elbows start to drop. I imagine this will improve actuarially, but in the meantime I'll continue to employ the straps.

Will Brink suggests another option for fronts - instead of bending the wrists backward, try palms down:

Thanks built, ill give straps a try. DOMS, maybe my answer was slightly confusing, but i use the crossover technique on the smith machine, just struggled with the cross over when trying to hold a free weight barbell, but like you mentioned probably never had it positioned correctly.

Originally Posted by Built

Do what I did to learn fronts: use straps.

I've posted about this before:

The will brink youtube demo has been removed for some reason, gutted. The strap idea looks great though.

I couldn't manage Will Brink's version anyway, but the strap thing worked a charm - AND it works on your flexibility and form; over time you'll be able to do clean grip but who cares, just use the straps and you're fine. Keep those elbows forward and UP.

Love smith squats, front or back.

I've tried the straps for front squats and like it.

As far as smith machines...when do you plan on leaving this crutch? A few weeks or months down the road when you've magically gotten your form and coordination down, somehow? Drop the weight even if its down to just a bar and learn and develop the strength, coordination and flexibility, and leave the smith to put your bags under or lean on and catch your breath in between real squats.

I think it's ok, but as soon as you get comfortable with the exercise, switch to free bar. The Smith machine is defiantly not allowing you to to get the most out of this movement.

Originally Posted by Merkaba

I've tried the straps for front squats and like it.

As far as smith machines...when do you plan on leaving this crutch? A few weeks or months down the road when you've magically gotten your form and coordination down, somehow? Drop the weight even if its down to just a bar and learn and develop the strength, coordination and flexibility, and leave the smith to put your bags under or lean on and catch your breath in between real squats.

LOL now now Merkaba, you know what they say about sarcasm, 'lowest form of witt' and all that. Yeah, im happy to try front squats with the straps now that built has shown me the way, just couldnt ever see me getting comfortable with the conventional way but well see, maybe ill figure them out one day. Have to drop the weight though like you say.

davegmb, once you get used to the strap-trick, you'll find your fronts come up pretty fast.

You ever do power cleans?

i love front squats...there's no use for the smith though....it's awkward at first but I like to rest the bar on my collarbone and right against my throat.

Start over again. Approach front squats as if new. Hard to do, I know, but it's better in the long run IMO. Lower the weight. Master the form. Once you've done that, the weight will rise soon enough. Obviously, as you're probably already aware, don't expect to be shifting as much weight as with standard squats (I feel you can stimulate the quads just as effectively with front squats despite less weight, anyway. Less stress to your joints, too).

Also, I know a lot of folks use the Smith Machine to 'get used' to the movement, then make the transition to a free bar. However, I think you might as well start as you mean to go on. Gaining confidence and experience with a fixed or stabilized bar is misleading for you psychologically and physically. Many tend to move onto the free bar and load it up with the same sort of weight they used with the Smith, feeling that they're now familiar enough with the movement. Truth is they usually aren't. Their conpensatory/stabilizer muscles will not have been fully prepped from fixed-bar front squats. This can lead these muscles to work inefficiently or fail completely, thus effecting form. And, in worse case scenario, lead to injury.

As for the way of holding the bar, I prefer crossing my arms, forming a cradle and having it rest on my delts with it locked in place by my collar bone. It used to hurt a bit where the bar digs in - particularly when the weight increases - but as soon as you add a bit more muscle, it cushions the bar to an extent. If it really hurts, wrap the bar in a thinnish hand towel for added comfort, or apply a bit of spongey pipe lagging you can pick up from any plumbers'/builders' merchants. I've seen a few other guys do this. I used to use the pain (it was annoying rather than crippling, for me) to my advantage, particularly on my last and heaviest set. When it tug in, I used the pain/annoyance factor to summon more power. The harder the bar pressed down, the harder I pushed up - sort of engaged a 'me against the weight' aspect to the exercise. Sounds daft, but 'the angrier Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets' Whatever gets you completing a good, successful set, right?

Originally Posted by Built

davegmb, once you get used to the strap-trick, you'll find your fronts come up pretty fast.

You ever do power cleans?

No never tried them, do hang clean and press but never power cleans. Ill have a llok at how to do them, do they hit the quads mainly too?

Originally Posted by Mags

but 'the angrier Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets' Whatever gets you completing a good, successful set, right?

LOL i like it, bet your a terrifying sight in the gym when you front squat. I tried builts suggestion today with the straps with a light weight as you can see from my journal and it went well, but ill probably try what you suggested MAGS on my warm ups until i get my confidence up enough to lose the straps.

I prefer to do dumbbell front squats when possible. I cant do them on 5x5 because the weight is too heavy for me to clean. I've done smith front squats and free bar squats. I find that I can balance myself better with the smith machine or I tend to tip forward. This doesnt happen when I use dumbbell fronts or when I use the smith.

To do these effectively, watch the video

YouTube Video

Also when I do the db version, my obliques get a serious beating with them. My sides look like to slabs on the sides because of this.

Originally Posted by davegmb

LOL now now Merkaba, you know what they say about sarcasm, 'lowest form of witt' and all that. Yeah, im happy to try front squats with the straps now that built has shown me the way, just couldnt ever see me getting comfortable with the conventional way but well see, maybe ill figure them out one day. Have to drop the weight though like you say.

I really wasn't being sarcastic...

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I prefer to do dumbbell front squats when possible. I cant do them on 5x5 because the weight is too heavy for me to clean. I've done smith front squats and free bar squats. I find that I can balance myself better with the smith machine or I tend to tip forward. This doesnt happen when I use dumbbell fronts or when I use the smith.

To do these effectively, watch the video

YouTube Video

Also when I do the db version, my obliques get a serious beating with them. My sides look like to slabs on the sides because of this.

Isn't that way too much forward lean for a front squat? Aren't front squats supposed to be performed with an upright torso?

As upright as you can muster; as long as your abs are tight and you can actually feel them tightening, it's good.

how much weight do you guys do with the front squat in comparison with your back squat.

approximately a third less

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I prefer to do dumbbell front squats when possible. I cant do them on 5x5 because the weight is too heavy for me to clean. I've done smith front squats and free bar squats. I find that I can balance myself better with the smith machine or I tend to tip forward. This doesnt happen when I use dumbbell fronts or when I use the smith.

To do these effectively, watch the video

YouTube Video

Also when I do the db version, my obliques get a serious beating with them. My sides look like to slabs on the sides because of this.

Ill have an experiment with these too

Originally Posted by Built

davegmb, once you get used to the strap-trick, you'll find your fronts come up pretty fast.

Two words.

Fucking.

Brilliant.