Thread: Destroy and Flood

I've never tried it using three exercises in each D/F grouping so i can't comment on how well that would work.

Why not do some extra supersets rather than trisets?

I.e. - First 3 supersets are 3x5/3x20, second 3 are 3x8/3x30

Making 6 D+F supersets in the session, but slightly different. I should think being assisted will allow you to handle this. Normally that would be way too much, haha. Thats 36 sets in a session!

My thought process was based on your article and
TMUSCLE.com | 3 Ways to Get Big!

I was attempting to hit the heavy lifting, volume work, and constant tension lifting mentioned in the T-nation article.

Think it is too much? This is my first cycle, so not sure what I will be able to handle.

Do you think there is any harm in running it, and if I just feel too beat down, backing off of it?

And are the exercises basically correct for a good 2 day Push/Pull split?

Ah right, i see. Cool.

I don't see any problem with hitting it hard then tailing it back off if you're not recovering right. So long as you make sure you're eating copious amounts of food i expect you'll be fine.

The other option is to go the other way and start off safe and increase as time goes on. Obviously, this is the safer option but you might waste time when you could have handled it just fine

Exercise selection looks pretty comprehensive, too

Well thanks Gaz, means alot coming from you bro! I will give it a little bit and see how I feel. I am planning on eating anything that cant outrun me, so this should be good. I'll keep you posted.

No problem, man! Keep me updated.

The only suggestion i have would be to put the accessory day in between the main weight training days, actually. Didn't think of that before but two straight up days of intense weight training might play havoc with your lower back.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

The only suggestion i have would be to put the accessory day in between the main weight training days, actually. Didn't think of that before but two straight up days of intense weight training might play havoc with your lower back.

Took the words right outta my mouth.

Good idea, swapped.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

After reading CaptainNapalms thread at What do you guys think of this routine...

I read up a lot on this program and some variations. This is exactly the type of training our high school football coach had us on waaaay back in the day, and it worked great. However, I just thought that my success was because of the ol' raging teenage hormones.

I didn't post in his thread because I didn't want to hijack, but feedback would be greatly appreciated here. I have altered the actual exercises due to being in a home gym and what equipment I have access to.

I realize that I have a high volume of training in here, but I will be assisted, so please keep that in mind. Please attack this and help me set it up.

Day1 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 4x8 3x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 4x8 3x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 4x8 3x20

Day2 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 4x8 3x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 4x8 3x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 4x8 3x20

Day3 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat

Looks really good. Definately going to be a tough program though... which is a good thing.

I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit. New and improved?

Day1 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 3x8 2x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day2 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day3 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 3x8 2x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 3x8 2x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat with Alternates ie: Incline bench 6x3 3x10 1x30

I might give this a whirl after my modded 20 rep squat/dead routine when I bulk.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit. New and improved?

Day1 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 3x8 2x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day2 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day3 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 3x8 2x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 3x8 2x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat with Alternates ie: Incline bench 6x3 3x10 1x30

Yeah looks much better

Most of the time, I get forearm work from tossing off. I have to alternate arms because one gets larger than the other.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit. New and improved?

Day1 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 3x8 2x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day2 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day3 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 3x8 2x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 3x8 2x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat with Alternates ie: Incline bench 6x3 3x10 1x30

Maybe consider moving pull to day 1. With the forearm/grip training on day 2 that could interfere with your pulling. Pushing exercises require significantly less grip than pulling exercises. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

I altered the reps a little and swapped the days around a bit. New and improved?

Day1 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 3x8 2x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day2 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day3 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 3x8 2x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 3x8 2x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat with Alternates ie: Incline bench 6x3 3x10 1x30

I will be starting my first cycle in September, and was looking for a Push/Pull routine to go along with it. I really like the layout of this and if Gaz and Phineas like it, then I bet its a winner.

My question is regarding your Repeat w/ Alternates example. I noticed your sticking to a 5x5 for all the primary compound exercises and then moving the sets and reps for each exercise for the body part. You changed from Flat to Incline bench on Day 5, but also modified your sets/reps. Could you explain how you will be handling the next cycle or two with regards to changing the sets/reps or will you be sticking with a 5x5, 3x8, 2x20 every 4th days?

Im not sure yet.

I think I will stick with what the original plan calls for unless I notice bodyparts lagging or feel like I am not making gains.

I am going to swap the pull/push day as Phineas suggested. That makes sense.

Final version? Thanks for all the help fellas.

Day1 Pull
Deadlift/RDL/Good mornings 5x5 3x8 2x20
Chins/Rows/lat pulldowns 5x5 3x8 2x20
Cleans/Shrugs/Back flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day2 Accessory
Forearms
Abs
Calves
Neck
Cardio

Day3 Push
Bench press/Dumbell Press/Flyes 5x5 3x8 2x20
Squat/Lunges/Leg extension 5x5 3x8 2x20
Military Press/Arnies/Lateral raise 5x5 3x8 2x20

Day4
Off

Day5 Repeat with Alternates if lagging 6x3 3x10 1x30

Hey Gaz, just an update. Sort of tracking here:

My cute lil' first cycle log.

This is brutal, but I can tell you honestly that it is awesome. I just finished round 2 and went up in weights significantly. Of course I am cheating and assisted, but still, I feel like a beast.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

Hey Gaz, just an update. Sort of tracking here:

My cute lil' first cycle log.

This is brutal, but I can tell you honestly that it is awesome. I just finished round 2 and went up in weights significantly. Of course I am cheating and assisted, but still, I feel like a beast.

Amazing news, dude! Will take a look at your log now!

Has your bodyweight changed much?

Is this setup so that you are performing 2 fullbody sessions a week? and are these exercises tri-sets performed for example - deadlift 5 reps, RDL 8 reps and GM 20 reps and then rest and repeat ?

This seems to resemble charles poliquins Advanced German Body Composition Method which i think you will find a great read , he follows a 3 day split a bit different from what your doing here but man it is awesome and i can really testify for its effectiveness on putting on muscle. This is a slightly modified version, However it was modified by a Level 3 PICP coach so i'm sure CP would approve.

The Advanced GBC Program

Perform 2 body parts per session with 3 exercises per body part performed in a tri-set fashion with a maximum of 10 seconds rest between movements and a rest period of 2 minute between sets (A1-A2-A3-2min-repeat). Following the correct exercise tempo is essential so is keeping rest periods. The Intensity should be 6RM,12RM AND 25RM respectively and the goal here is to complete all circuits with the same load however a 10% reduction set to set is likely initially. Always strive to increase the weight used without compromising form ! GOOD LUCK

Use the following split:

Day One: Chest and Back
Day Two: Legs
Day Three: Off
Day Four: Shoulders and Arms
Day Five: Off
Repeat

The cycle is meant to be performed 6 times. Doing it longer will result in diminishing returns.

An example of Leg day would follow:

A1. Back Squats - 6 reps - tempo 40X0 (4 secs eccentric, pause, explode on concentric)
A2. Walking Lunges - 12 reps (per leg) - tempo 20X0
A3. Front Squats(heels elevated) - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

B1. Lying Leg Curl (feet plantarflexed on eccentric/dorsiflexed on concentric) - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
B2. RDL - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
B3. Seated Leg Curl - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

An example of Chest and Back day would follow:

A1. Incline Bench Press - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
A2. Weighted Dips (Deep repetitions with forward lean) - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
A3. Cable Flyes - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

B1. Weighted Chins - 6 reps - tempo 40X0
B2. Bent Over Rows - 12 reps - tempo 20X0
B3. Straight arm rope pulldowns - 25 reps - tempo 10X0
Rest 2 minute
x3

Use your favourites on Arm and Shoulder day !

Additional Notes:

• If you work out at a commercial gym, you might be hampered by slackers and fat cows who steal your exercise stations. As such, you may need to improvise and do different movements.

• Strive to do each circuit 3 times per workout. Progress to 4 circuits per workout after two or three weeks.

• Use a 40X0 tempo on the sets of 6; a 20X0 tempo on the sets of 12; and a 10X0 tempo on the sets of 25.

• You must use the entire 2-minute rest period. If you do not, you might not be able to use sufficient weight (or complete the prescribed reps), thus affecting lactate production

• Doing fewer reps tha what is prescribed will not elicit enough lactate and consequently not produce enough GH.

+Grab a BUCKET


ROAST

This one is actually setup for 3-4 FBW's in a week, since I am assisted, but I can easily see staying on this afterwards, and just taking it down to 2-3. Really brutal routine, but I like it!

I am not doing them as Tri-sets simply because I need some left over energy for the heavy compounds. For example, day 1 I will do Deadlift 5x5, then Chins, then cleans, then onto the second set of exercises.

Gaz, my bodyweight has gone up roughly 15lbs in a week, but it is almost all water I'm sure! I will keep it updated.

sounds like yu got some good training ahead of you, I hope the anabolic gods are good to you .

lol bit of a wasted post then , i hope someone found that post on GBC useful tho!

R

Not wasted at all bro! Great post, and after I come off I will be looking to modify this routine to something more manageable anyway! This is great, but no way I could do this unassisted. I was crippled the day after the initial workout, intense DOMS, and then went UP on all lifts 3 days later lmao. This is FUN.

i am interested i giving this routine a try, it say do just 1-3 reps? is that all u need to do for the destroy portion?

I think I would still stick with 5x5 for the destroy, but take it easier on the other 2 sets. Hopefully Gaz can chime in on that. He already has a D&F program put together for non-assisted lifters.

i'd really appreciate it if gaz could post the routine for non-assisted lifters or if anyone else knows it post it up here, on his site it just has 2 sets one destroy of 1-3 and one flood approx 20 reps?

Captainnapalm has one up at
What do you guys think of this routine...

See if thats what you are looking for.

yeah thats similar to what i was looking for, has anyone had any success with this kind of training? 3-4 heavy reps doesnt seem like much

The regular routine is on my website here:

http://getlifting.info/?p=18

Had about half a dozen people (that i know of) see good results from this program. I thought it was great when i was doing it. Hurts like a bitch though.

Btw, if you think 3-4 heavy reps isn't hard enough you're not lifting enough weight :P