Thread: have a question...

Cardio isn't going to inhibit muscle gains but it will certainly slow them down if your son doesn't have his diet dialed in. In order to gain muscle you will have to have a caloric surplus available. Meaning, he will have to consume enough food to meet his biological needs, that is, his BMR, then he will need to eat enough to accomidate the workout and cardio and then something left over for muscle building, roughly 500 calories of surplus is recommended.
The question is, is he doing cardio to lose bodyfat or for endurance?
I ask because in order to lose bodyfat, you're now talking about creating a caloric deficit which is contrary to building muscle. Obviously, it's not the most efficient approach to try to do both so depending on his goals, it's often best to choose to do one or the other.
As for planning or building a training routine, there are sticky threads posted in the Training forum that have many excellent resources to help as well as some great threads by one of our Mods, CowPimp regarding building training routines.
Hope this helps.

BTW, yes, it appears to me that he's probably training too often and inefficiently. For example, dedicating an entire day to biceps and another to triceps. Again, more info can be found in the sticky threads.

Thank you, FMJ for replying.

He went and read the stickies on the training and decided on a plan.


Sunday:Back, Biceps
Monday:Rest
Tuesday:Shoulders, Legs
Wednesday:Rest
Thursday:Triceps, Chest
Friday:Rest
Saturday:Rest

If you know which ones work best with each other for exercises could you please let me know?

He also decided to eat more calories.

Thank you.

Devoting a whole separate day to triceps and then another one to biceps is a complete waste of days. In fact, dedicating a whole single day to arms including biceps triceps is a waste when one's goal is to gain muscle mass. He can make use of his week much better by doing a full body workout 3 times a week, a push and pull split or a lower body/upper body split by using the following exercises: squats, dealifts, shoulder press, bench press, dips, barbell rows, chin-ups, pull-ups and maybe a bit of isolation here and there for arms. He will get much better gains that way.

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

Thank you, FMJ for replying.

He went and read the stickies on the training and decided on a plan.


Sunday:Back, Biceps
Monday:Rest
Tuesday:Shoulders, Legs
Wednesday:Rest
Thursday:Triceps, Chest
Friday:Rest
Saturday:Rest

If you know which ones work best with each other for exercises could you please let me know?

He also decided to eat more calories.

Thank you.

Typically, it's best to do a split routine by grouping push moves and pull moves. For example, upper push days would include movements like Bench pressing, shoulder pressing, Dips, etc. Upper pulls would be things like Bent and seated rows, pullups, etc. Then a lower leg day consisting of squatting, deadlifting, etc.
You can also do full body stuff if you're not fond of split routines.
There's many different ways to arrange the routines and in fact, you'll want to change it up after a couple months anyway but what works best will be determined by the individual.
If muscle gains are the goal of the routine, then basic compound movements should make up most of the routine. Compounds are the exercises that utilize many different muscles when performing. Isolation exercises like curls and kickbacks will contribute very little to the overall mass of a physique. Squats, deadlifts, bench pressing, bent rowing, pullups, these are the most popular compound moves and should be included in any "bulking" routine.
As for diet, he should really know how much he needs to eat. Simply adding more food isn't accurate enough. He'll want to know what his lean body mass (LBM) is, he'll need to know what his maintainence calorie level is and from there he can add or subtract calories from that number to either loss or gain. A calorie tracking method is highly recommended.
Many IM members use and recommend Fitday.com but anything that tracks your daily dietary consumtion will work.

Cardio has too many benefits to be avoided. I use to suggest to beginners looking to gain weight to drop cardio all together and focus on calories -- just as I was advised to do when I was a beginner. However, this is just ludicrous. First of all, how many calories are burned during cardio is greatly overblown by most people. Sure, if you're going to be running 10 miles five days a week then there's probably going to be some difficult putting on muscle mass, but if you go for two to four 20 minutes runs a week, or three days a week biking, or whatever, you're not burning off so many calories that they can't be easily replaced. You can even fit in the occassional endurance cardio session. If your diet is in check, it's very easy to replace calories lost from cardio.

Secondly, there are many benefits to performing cardio while on a bulk. Aside from generally strengthening the heart and lungs (let's not forget, the heart is a muscle...a hell of a lot more important than abs), cardio will make it easier for a lifter when they eventually cut, as cardio increases mitochondrial and capillary density (allows for more nutrient transportation and more efficient fat oxidation). Cardio will also increase a lifter's VO2 max, which is the maximum rate at which the heart in conjuction with the lungs can pump oxygen-rich blood to the muscles.This will not only increase a lifter's healing rate out of the gym but in the gym. You'll recover from sets faster, and will be able to maintain better tempos with shorter rest intervals. Cardio also improves a lifter's hormonal profile by releasing more endorphins. Cardio also stimulates slow-twitch muscle fibres, giving the muscles more endurance.

Yada yada yada, I could go on and on. The point is -- cardio is highly beneficial, even to so-called "hardgainers". There is no such thing as a hardgainer, only an undereater. Just eat more. Cardio is more effective to a lifter in lower volume and higher intensity, anyway. Perform HIIT cardio 2-4 times a week and you're burning off a relatively small amount of calories.

Ok so this is Andy and I redid my work out.

Sunday: Upper Push
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Pull
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Rest

I hope that is good, but it looks like im giving too much time for rest cause im only working a each group, once a week. Or maybe its just me.

For Upper Push. I have a question. I was going to do Chest Press for my chest, but when I am done, I feel it a bit in my arms and chest, but my chest is the only thing sore the next day. Does that mean I should not only do chest press but also another exercise for my triceps or does the chest press cover my tricep workout? Usually when I am done working with Chest Press for about 30 mins. I really cant do any other exercises afterwards.. is there anything I can do to make it so I can get a good workout from my chest press without it effecting my Shoulder Press workout while maybe throwing in a lil bit of Tricep Kickbacks?

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

Ok so this is Andy and I redid my work out.

Sunday: Upper Push
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Pull
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Rest

I hope that is good, but it looks like im giving too much time for rest cause im only working a each group, once a week. Or maybe its just me.

For Upper Push. I have a question. I was going to do Chest Press for my chest, but when I am done, I feel it a bit in my arms and chest, but my chest is the only thing sore the next day. Does that mean I should not only do chest press but also another exercise for my triceps or does the chest press cover my tricep workout? Usually when I am done working with Chest Press for about 30 mins. I really cant do any other exercises afterwards.. is there anything I can do to make it so I can get a good workout from my chest press without it effecting my Shoulder Press workout while maybe throwing in a lil bit of Tricep Kickbacks?

Hey Andy,
Well, as you know, bench press does indirectly work your triceps, biceps, shoulders, etc.. you can take a wider grip to allow less emphesis on the tris but there's no avoiding that these smaller groups get spillover stimulation from benching. You can do an iso movement for your tri's if you like, near the end of your routine. It's really a personal thing though. If you feel your triceps need more work, do a little extra for them, otherwise, your compounds will take care of those smaller muscles. As for it exhausting your shoulders, it shouldn't. Be sure your form is strict and squeeze your pecs to get the weight up, not your shoulders. If you can't concentrate enough to do this, lower the weight until you can. Also, try doing incline and decline instead of flat pressing to take some stress off the shoulders.

Well its not really exhausting my shoulders, just my arms. So when I go to do the front press, my arms are too tired to get the bar over my head.

Also.. it might be because I go right from Chest Press to Shoulder Press with only 1-2 min rest. I dont know if I need to rest a little bit longer when switching to a different exercise for a different muscle.

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

Well its not really exhausting my shoulders, just my arms. So when I go to do the front press, my arms are too tired to get the bar over my head.

Well, three things to help combat that.. first, don't take your sets to failure, if you are. Going one rep less than failure isn't going to impact your results in the slightest. Second thing, expand your rest intervals. If you're resting 1 or 2 minutes between sets and you're still too tired, rest for 3.
Lastly, reduce your shoulder press weight. You will often find that the weight you use for a particular exercise is dependent upon what you did immediately before it. For instance, I can hack squat 210 pounds fresh but if I back squat before those, I have to reduce the weight to 185.
This doesn't mean you're weaker, you just have to consider pre-fatigue.
the poundage doesn't matter. What matters is you effectively work the muscle group. For muscle gains you'll want to use close to your max weight but again, depending on what you've done so far, that number will vary.
Good luck Andy!

Thank you. You have helped me out alot.

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

Thank you. You have helped me out alot.

Very welcome. Everyone here on IM are extreamly helpful and knowledgeable. Everything I told you, I learned from them.

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

Ok so this is Andy and I redid my work out.

Sunday: Upper Push
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Upper Pull
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Rest

I hope that is good, but it looks like im giving too much time for rest cause im only working a each group, once a week. Or maybe its just me.

For Upper Push. I have a question. I was going to do Chest Press for my chest, but when I am done, I feel it a bit in my arms and chest, but my chest is the only thing sore the next day. Does that mean I should not only do chest press but also another exercise for my triceps or does the chest press cover my tricep workout? Usually when I am done working with Chest Press for about 30 mins. I really cant do any other exercises afterwards.. is there anything I can do to make it so I can get a good workout from my chest press without it effecting my Shoulder Press workout while maybe throwing in a lil bit of Tricep Kickbacks?

I would suggest one of two options:

(1.) Split your leg session into two - (a) lower push, and (b) lower pull. This would give you a 4-day split and give you balanced training distributed evenly throughout the week.

OR

(2.) Alternate your sessions so that if upper body is A and lower body is B your schedule would look like this...

Week 1: A, B, A
Week 2: B, A, B
Week 3: A, B, A
Week 4: B, A, B..etc...

The way you currently have it you're either lifting 2/3 upper body and 1/3 lower or you're doing equal volume for lower body but cramming it into one overkill session.

Originally Posted by FMJ

Hey Andy,
Well, as you know, bench press does indirectly work your triceps, biceps, shoulders, etc.. you can take a wider grip to allow less emphesis on the tris but there's no avoiding that these smaller groups get spillover stimulation from benching. You can do an iso movement for your tri's if you like, near the end of your routine. It's really a personal thing though. If you feel your triceps need more work, do a little extra for them, otherwise, your compounds will take care of those smaller muscles. As for it exhausting your shoulders, it shouldn't. Be sure your form is strict and squeeze your pecs to get the weight up, not your shoulders. If you can't concentrate enough to do this, lower the weight until you can. Also, try doing incline and decline instead of flat pressing to take some stress off the shoulders.

One of these days I'll be able to rep you again.

Also, what's the diet like? Can you post in detail your diet? And, I mean down to portion size if you can figure it out.

For example...

-5 oz tuna
-2 slices whole wheat bread
-2 tbs mayo
-50g spinach
-1/2 roma tomato
-1 slice swiss cheese

-100g pasta
-8 oz extra leen ground beef
-50g spinach

This kind of detail is very useful. We need to see what kind of foods you're eating, and how much. The even better route, as FMJ mentioned, would be to track your calories and macros (ratio of protein, fat, and carbs in your diet) and report back to us with your numbers and the food you eat to get those numbers.

Diet is equally, if not more, important than training.

No diet quiet yet till I start my job in august, so I can buy my own food. I have been trying to eat clean for the most part. Im down to 10.5% body fat and I think its ok considering the fact that I dont have one. But when I get my job, I was wondering what I am looking for and what type of foods I should be eating and how much of it.

Originally Posted by rbarrett68

No diet quiet yet till I start my job in august, so I can buy my own food. I have been trying to eat clean for the most part. Im down to 10.5% body fat and I think its ok considering the fact that I dont have one. But when I get my job, I was wondering what I am looking for and what type of foods I should be eating and how much of it.

Start with the Diet & Nutrition forum, lots of good info in the stickies there and once you put together a diet you can post it, and get alot of good feedback there just like you did here.