Thread: Newbie needs help with workout.

Come on guy's, dont tell me it's so good you cant think of anything to say?

Newbie requires advice please

You asked once already.

But seeing how much you have gained in a short period of time, I can only imagine that your diet is shit. I would usually suggest a cut right about now ,but being almost the end of summer I am going to suggest a VERY lean bulk from now until the next cutting season. Your lifting is not so much important as your diet if this advice is taken to use. As long as you hit deads, squats, bench, and military press then you'll be fine. I'm not saying not use your routine, I'm simple saying to be SURE you do these to the max. All in all your routine looks solid. I would probably hit up small amounts of cardio now so that when cutting time comes around you are not a beginner to it. Diet is the main focus I see now. High Weight, Low Reps, Long Rest, Good Foods, Sleep, Eat, Repeat.

Oh and I don't see the need to nail 5 sets of each curl exercise. I would also throw in hammer curls to. And 5 sets of pull ups? I mean I do 3 Max and they use a good bit of energy.

Oh and I know it's not biggy, but I do back/bi's together and chest/tri's.. Dunno why just saying maybe you might like it better as well?

good god. diet diet diet

Read the first post of the following
Training 101
And
Designing a Split Routine
And
Designing a Full Body Routine

This should give you some ideas of how to construct different routines and different philosophies of training. I'd be glad to help you out if you read these links, make a new routine, and then post it.

[QUOTE=PushAndPull;

This should give you some ideas of how to construct different routines and different philosophies of training. I'd be glad to help you out if you read these links, make a new routine, and then post it.[/QUOTE]

With respect, is my existing routine that bad that I need a completely new one? I would have thought all I needed to do was tweak it in some way.
Don't get me wrong I am the newbie in all respects and I do respect what you say, but by philosophy is if it ain't broke don't fit it, just work around it if you can.

Alright. Yes I believe you need a completely new routine. How long have you been doing this routine, the whole eight months you've been training? Even if it was a good routine(which it's not) it's time to change it up. If your routine is not good then why did you make gains? Simple, you haven't been training very long. Any routine would have yeilded results. Here is quote from a website that summed it up nicely.

"One important thing to remember is that training with weights is the same as general training. If your capacity isn't very developed, just about anything can work and have broad implications. Later on you really need to put some thought into making progress and what specifically you are trying to do during a period. This is the same as an untrained 6th grader in football. You can probably increase his speed, strength, power, agility, conditioning and skills all during the competitive season. At the college levels a highly trained athlete would laugh at the idea of being able to do all of this at once and generally settles for a few at a time while maintaining others or even allowing some regression at points in time. Consider a couch potato, just getting him out and running around in some way will no doubt translate to better 100m through middle distance performance. Compare this to the elite 100m sprinter who needs to plan even his already highly specialized sprinting workouts to make progress in his times."

Simply put, there is no perfect workout routine. On top of that yours is an completely unbalanced routine, which is bad. I gave you those links to learn about different kinds of training routines, not just for now but for your future routines as well.

PushAndPull,
Thanks for that it does make more sense now.
I have been using this routine for 8 weeks. Not wishing to sound thick but I do find it hard to understand how to build a new routine. Ask me how to run a construction site with 200 plus men and ill do it with ease.
So I hope you know where I'm coming from, I will try my best because i just want to increase my muscle mass.

OK here goes

Monday
Incline press 4 x 8-12
Flat bench press 4 x 8-12
Incline dumbell flyers 4 x 8-12
Lying EZ bar extensions 4 x 8-12
Cable pulldowns 4 x 8-12

Tuesday
Deadlift 4 x 8-12
Lat pull down 4 x 8-12
Barbell rowing 4 x 8-12
Dumbbell rowing 4 x 8-12

Wednesday day off

Thursday
Squats 4 x 8-12
Leg curl 4 x 8-12
Leg extesion 4 x 8-12
Seated calf raisers 4 x8-12

Friday
Dumbell press 4 x 8-12
Lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Rear lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Barbell curls 4 x 8-12
Hammer curls 4 x 8-12

Satuarday & Sunday rest.

Comments please on the above workout.

Here is a sample workout that I would suggest.

Upper Body Pull
Pull ups (Overhand grip) 2x
Pull ups (Underhand grip) 2x
Pull ups (Neutral grip) 2x
Row (some variation) 3x
Row (some variation) 3x

Lower Body Push
Squats 4x
Bulgarian split Squats 3x
Extensions 3x
Accesory Work : Calf raises 3x

Upper Body Push
Dumbbell bench press 4x
Decline press 2x
Dips 3x
Corner press 3x
Accesory Work : Reverse flys 2x

Lower Body Pull
Deadlifts 4x
Good Mornings 3x
Leg curls 3x
Accesory Work : Calf raises 3x

8 weeks is not a long time for a newbie to remain on the same program. If you're still getting gains from that routine, I wouldn't change it.

Your current program has quite a bit of isolation though.

Thanks for the sample workout, but how would I put that into a 4 day workout. Also with pull ups I am lucky if I can do 2, that's why I use the pull down to build up the weight.

As far as the pull-ups go, do negatives, and if you still feel spunky add lat pulldowns x2 to the upper body pull day. As far as the spilt goes, that's up to you.
I would suggest
Day 1: Upper Body Pull
Day 2: off
Day 3: Lower Body Push
Day 4: off
Day 5: Upper Body Push
Day 6: off
Day 7: Lower Body Pull
Day 8: off

[LEFT]I tried to make this post more readable for "Gazhole" sorry for the wall bro,but seriously if you look at alot of posts on the boards,the format window is not as easy as using Microsoft word brother. It's quite complicated trying to format your reply's,and responses,and make it look like a English paper,because when you type it,and you post it,your response doesn't look the same,the format is almost impossible to make it look perfect. when I typed the post it looked different in my window,and when I posted it the format got messed up,and it looked all crammed together. I hope I made it a bit little easier for you to read "Gazhole". Again"Gazhole", my intent was not to have a English paper and make my wording,and paragraphs, format,and font look perfect." I was only replying to the post to help the guy out with some advice.
Hey bro I have to somewhat agree with this version here. I read alot of the other guy's comments, and I can see where you are coming from brother. Put me at a construction site, ask me to train 200 men,and I'm lost as hell doing that, so you sure do got some talent there. Now if you ask me how to increase your mass on your body, and I'll know exactly how to go about telling you what works for me, not every routine somebody suggest to you is going to work for you my man.
Think about it not, everybody who goes out and buy’s, or studies Arnold's or Jay Cutler's fitness routine workouts, start looking like the pros now, do they? See bro you need to try different approaches. A good method to keep increasing your mass on your physique would be to change things up. I never do the same exercise in a workout exactly the same. Your muscles need to be shocked, and want to know what the hell you are doing to them. You got to change up routines, but you do need to get the basics down.
Basics would be benches for chest, Squats for legs Presses for shoulders, shrugs for traps, skull crushers for triceps, bb, or e-z curl bar for biceps, and of course the other exercises that dwell in with them. But you can't forget the basics, and also dead lifting if your back wasn't injured o if your back is very weak. Safety is very important too. Also looking at your routine, I can see you do a lot of only 5 reps for each exercise and there is nothing wrong with that, but you also need to be increasing your repetitions from at least 6-8,even sometimes 10. This is not going to yield your results from gaining mass, but you will become harder with the increase in the repetitions, and of course you can even go from the 12-15 when your ready to cut up, or look even harder.
This would be a good idea to start on.I would stick to the 6-8 for now, unless your supper setting to exercises, with a pull, and a push routine, because the exercise you supper set with needs to be in conjunction. I also think you should use partial, partial negatives, tri-sets ,and other routines. You need to change up the routines to keep growing: but it’ nice to keep the mass coming, but you don't want it to look sloppy man, you want your physique to be well proportioned brother. The point I'm getting at is you need to find what works for you, then after you get some gains from that routine, you can change some of the exercises up, for example, i.e.) If you’re doing wide grip, and using a e-z curl bar, try doing spider curls instead that day, or throw in a different biceps mass exercise. You still want to stick with a good mass exercise though, and of course it needs to apply to the working part of your body your emphasizing that day in your routine. Also I only touched base with you on this, and it's so much deeper than that.
I wish I had time to actually show you some great routines I have used in the past to put on good amount of nice mass along with quality though. Diet is extremely important as well. Just to touch a little base. Mass requires Calories, Protein, Fat intake “fish oil,Carbs,Supplements,other! Diet is complicated to explain. Look at your weight you have, and do the math on the consumption of the amount of calories your body needs. Like I said it gets deeper, there are times you should consume fast acting protein, and slow acting to keep the body restored, do some research on the diet part. If I was to see you in person, I would show you what is missing in your diet as well. You just need to construct,construct,and CONSTRUCT bro. Look at some of the routines your doing,and change the 5's to 6-8's at times. Change up the repetition on a basic 6 weeks in,6 weeks out. Read up on the main MASS builders,like squats,deads,BB curls,BB Rows,and other.
I only touched base with you man, there is much to learn about getting bigger, but QUALITY matters. You could have 23inch arms, and not solidified arms, and If some dude has only 18inch solid arms with big ass triceps, and biceps “that 23 on you is not going to look as big as his arms”, so YES size on mass is good, but you want to keep it looking proportioned, just like the rest of your body. Change stuff up, use different reps, unless you only are looking to be a power lifter.
Read up on other routines like (7's,21's,tri sets,FST-7,and many more methods out there man). Keep me updated brother.
SB

Originally Posted by joboco

OK here goes

Monday
Incline press 4 x 8-12
Flat bench press 4 x 8-12
Incline dumbell flyers 4 x 8-12
Lying EZ bar extensions 4 x 8-12
Cable pulldowns 4 x 8-12

Tuesday
Deadlift 4 x 8-12
Lat pull down 4 x 8-12
Barbell rowing 4 x 8-12
Dumbbell rowing 4 x 8-12

Wednesday day off

Thursday
Squats 4 x 8-12
Leg curl 4 x 8-12
Leg extesion 4 x 8-12
Seated calf raisers 4 x8-12

Friday
Dumbell press 4 x 8-12
Lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Rear lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Barbell curls 4 x 8-12
Hammer curls 4 x 8-12

Satuarday & Sunday rest.

Comments please on the above workout.

I think my brain just took a shit.

Can't comment on the content of that post because i honestly can't make my eyes penetrate that wall, but for the love of Thor please go read up on paragraphs and line breaks. They're useful.

For.

Getting.

Your.

Point.

Across.

Your funny dude! LOL.
I know I just kept typing away bro and not looking at the paragraphs,lines format in mind,sorry for the walls dude. My intent was not to penetrate your mind, or get a comment on a lesson in English,lol. Your funny though,you could be a comedian. Take care Iron Mag. Peace
SB

Originally Posted by theshowboat

[LEFT]I tried to make this post more readable for "Gazhole" sorry for the wall bro,but seriously if you look at alot of posts on the boards,the format window is not as easy as using Microsoft word brother. It's quite complicated trying to format your reply's,and responses,and make it look like a English paper,because when you type it,and you post it,your response doesn't look the same,the format is almost impossible to make it look perfect. when I typed the post it looked different in my window,and when I posted it the format got messed up,and it looked all crammed together. I hope I made it a bit little easier for you to read "Gazhole". Again"Gazhole", my intent was not to have a English paper and make my wording,and paragraphs, format,and font look perfect." I was only replying to the post to help the guy out with some advice.
Hey bro I have to somewhat agree with this version here. I read alot of the other guy's comments, and I can see where you are coming from brother. Put me at a construction site, ask me to train 200 men,and I'm lost as hell doing that, so you sure do got some talent there. Now if you ask me how to increase your mass on your body, and I'll know exactly how to go about telling you what works for me, not every routine somebody suggest to you is going to work for you my man.
Think about it not, everybody who goes out and buy’s, or studies Arnold's or Jay Cutler's fitness routine workouts, start looking like the pros now, do they? See bro you need to try different approaches. A good method to keep increasing your mass on your physique would be to change things up. I never do the same exercise in a workout exactly the same. Your muscles need to be shocked, and want to know what the hell you are doing to them. You got to change up routines, but you do need to get the basics down.
Basics would be benches for chest, Squats for legs Presses for shoulders, shrugs for traps, skull crushers for triceps, bb, or e-z curl bar for biceps, and of course the other exercises that dwell in with them. But you can't forget the basics, and also dead lifting if your back wasn't injured o if your back is very weak. Safety is very important too. Also looking at your routine, I can see you do a lot of only 5 reps for each exercise and there is nothing wrong with that, but you also need to be increasing your repetitions from at least 6-8,even sometimes 10. This is not going to yield your results from gaining mass, but you will become harder with the increase in the repetitions, and of course you can even go from the 12-15 when your ready to cut up, or look even harder.
This would be a good idea to start on.I would stick to the 6-8 for now, unless your supper setting to exercises, with a pull, and a push routine, because the exercise you supper set with needs to be in conjunction. I also think you should use partial, partial negatives, tri-sets ,and other routines. You need to change up the routines to keep growing: but it’ nice to keep the mass coming, but you don't want it to look sloppy man, you want your physique to be well proportioned brother. The point I'm getting at is you need to find what works for you, then after you get some gains from that routine, you can change some of the exercises up, for example, i.e.) If you’re doing wide grip, and using a e-z curl bar, try doing spider curls instead that day, or throw in a different biceps mass exercise. You still want to stick with a good mass exercise though, and of course it needs to apply to the working part of your body your emphasizing that day in your routine. Also I only touched base with you on this, and it's so much deeper than that.
I wish I had time to actually show you some great routines I have used in the past to put on good amount of nice mass along with quality though. Diet is extremely important as well. Just to touch a little base. Mass requires Calories, Protein, Fat intake “fish oil,Carbs,Supplements,other! Diet is complicated to explain. Look at your weight you have, and do the math on the consumption of the amount of calories your body needs. Like I said it gets deeper, there are times you should consume fast acting protein, and slow acting to keep the body restored, do some research on the diet part. If I was to see you in person, I would show you what is missing in your diet as well. You just need to construct,construct,and CONSTRUCT bro. Look at some of the routines your doing,and change the 5's to 6-8's at times. Change up the repetition on a basic 6 weeks in,6 weeks out. Read up on the main MASS builders,like squats,deads,BB curls,BB Rows,and other.
I only touched base with you man, there is much to learn about getting bigger, but QUALITY matters. You could have 23inch arms, and not solidified arms, and If some dude has only 18inch solid arms with big ass triceps, and biceps “that 23 on you is not going to look as big as his arms”, so YES size on mass is good, but you want to keep it looking proportioned, just like the rest of your body. Change stuff up, use different reps, unless you only are looking to be a power lifter.
Read up on other routines like (7's,21's,tri sets,FST-7,and many more methods out there man). Keep me updated brother.
SB

Wow. I'll rep anyone who has the patience to read this.

I'll tell you what since you want to bash me here bro, I'll just not post at all.I was not looking at my format,paragraphs,or capitalization on the post. I see many posts where the spelling,paragraphs are not very readable. Just look at the boards posts all over. It's more like a text message,lol.

So instead of commenting on my long response that I have the words all crammed up,which I do apologize for not using paragraphs,and cramming it all together. Just add more advice to this post,more training advice,more routines, and stop responding about my comment as though I'm writing an English paper here.

I was just trying to contribute to the board and give some useful advice. I don't appreciate the criticism on my post. Just let it alone, and I'm not gonna respond anymore to rude comments on my typing. Just let it go. Add training advice instead.

I ask you please to stop insulting my response on this post,leave the drama for another board. I would really appreciate that,and want to stick around. I like to post comments on boards where your not attacked,and people want to help. And when you do take the time to respond to someone's question,you don't get bashed,or ridiculed.

I thought maybe Iron Mag might be a board you can help and give useful,advice,and opinon's
and not get bashed just for lack of typing the words in perfect paragraph form. Again I apologize for my comment being crammed all together on this post.

I'm not gonna comment anymore on any funny remarks,or rude remarks. Stick to the subject
of the post at point,and just add more training routines,and I'll stick around on this board, because I like boards that don't cause drama.

Respectfully,[/LEFT]
SB[/CENTER]

Once again, wow. I apologize if my comments made you cry like a little girl. Seriously, how sensitive are you? Gaz is one of the nicest guys on this board and i'm certainly not the meanest. My advice, tuffin up or find another board.

If you're going to post here, make it readable. Simple as.

Iron Mag is one of the best boards on the net because theres a pretty high quality threshold for both the information posted here and the presentation of it. People will call you out if either one is not up to the standard we've come to expect.

I'm not bashing you personally, because to be honest i know nothing about you so i have no right to bash you personally, but that post isn't legible.

That said, lets get this back on topic.

i think your program looks ok. but i would add some close grip bench presses. they will give you big tris, and anterior shoulder strength. and do some v bar rowing for your back. everything else looks good to me. i understand your no spring chicken and i know its tough to get it all in when you get older. i give you alot of credit for even trying to do that program. good luck and welcome.

Originally Posted by joboco

OK here goes

Monday
Incline press 4 x 8-12
Flat bench press 4 x 8-12
Incline dumbell flyers 4 x 8-12
Lying EZ bar extensions 4 x 8-12
Cable pulldowns 4 x 8-12

Tuesday
Deadlift 4 x 8-12
Lat pull down 4 x 8-12
Barbell rowing 4 x 8-12
Dumbbell rowing 4 x 8-12

Wednesday day off

Thursday
Squats 4 x 8-12
Leg curl 4 x 8-12
Leg extesion 4 x 8-12
Seated calf raisers 4 x8-12

Friday
Dumbell press 4 x 8-12
Lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Rear lateral raisers 4 x 8-12
Barbell curls 4 x 8-12
Hammer curls 4 x 8-12

Satuarday & Sunday rest.

Comments please on the above workout.

this is better than m-w-f routine, plus take my suggestions on close grip benches. triceps bench dips weighted are another good one.

Twisted Push and Pull's split a little bit.

Upper Body Pull
A - Pullups
B - Close-Grip V-Bar Chins
A - BB Bent-Over Rows
B - DB Unilateral Bench Rows

Lower Body Push
A - Back Squats
B - DB Bulgarian Split Squats
C - Lumberjack Squats
*calf work

Upper Body Push
A - BB Bench Press
B - Incline DB Chest Press
A - BB Military Press
B - Corner press

Lower Body Pull
A - Deadlifts
B - Unilateral Romanian Deadlifts
C - Good Mornings
*calf work

Periodization example.....

Week 1: A - 3 x 5 @ 5-6RM w/ 2.5 min RI; B - 3 x 8 @ 11 RM w/ 1.5 min RI; C - 2 x 12 @ 15-16RM w/ 1-1.5 min RI

Week 2....

Week 3...

Honestly Phineas, I would never recommend BB military press for a 58 yr old man. As I got older overhead presses started becoming very hard on the neck/spine so even at 34 i'm keeping them to a minimum.

Depending on blood pressure a lot of overhead movements can become a problem in that regard aswell in older people.

Have you done Military/Overhead presses before, Joboco? If so when, and did you have any problems?

If blood pressure isn't an issue, single arm overhead press with a dumbell is a great alternative. A lot less rigid.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Depending on blood pressure a lot of overhead movements can become a problem in that regard aswell in older people.

Have you done Military/Overhead presses before, Joboco? If so when, and did you have any problems?

If blood pressure isn't an issue, single arm overhead press with a dumbell is a great alternative. A lot less rigid.

Agreed, I was going to say at the most DB overhead press, as I never experienced this effect using DB's.

Another option - and my personal favourite - is the Olympic bar corner press. Fabulous movement.

Originally Posted by Built

Another option - and my personal favourite - is the Olympic bar corner press. Fabulous movement.

Absolutely, that's why I recommended it as the only overhead type of movement for him.

Ah, I missed that!

Good call.