Thread: Training Program review

for rep ranges
Quads & Hamstrings = 8-15 Reps / Set
Calves = 12-20 Reps / Set
Everything Else
Reps aiming for 10/8/8/fail (if possible keep going after reaching these number of reps in your set)

Originally Posted by ryan92

Hey guys just wondering what you think of this program that i've just made up, its a 4 day split were i work out monday to thursday and take friday to sundary off, with Day 1: Chest/Bi's Day 2: Shoulders Day 3: Back Triceps and Day 4: Legs

My program is as follows;
Day 1:

1. bench press
2. Incline (dumbbells)
3. Flys (dumbbells)
4. Crossovers (cable)
5. dips
6. Alt. Hammer Curls (dumbell)
7. Zottman Dumbbell Curls
8. Cable Curls
9. standing dumbbell curl

Day 2:

1. Back Military Press
2. Seated Dumbbell Press.
3. Dumbbells forward/sides
4. Front raises (cable)
5. Delt Cable Pull
6. Upright Rows

Day 3:

1. Barbell bent over rows
2. Pull Ups
3. Dumbbell bent over Rows
4. Bench Pull
5. Hyper extensions (weighted)
6. Close Grip Bench
7. Tricep Kickback
8. French press with an EZ curl bar on a decline bench
9. Tricep press down rope

Day 4:

1. Squat (alternate with DL)
2. Dead lift (alternate with squat)
3. Calf Press
4. Glute Ham Raises
5. Seated Hamstring curls
6. Standing Hamstring Curls
7. Leg Press

I also run 3 times a week and do core training twice a week

Anything you have to tell me would be welcome, thanks heaps

I can tell you one thing I like about this program: you actually have deadlift with leg work. Good job for classifying the lift according to its mechanics. Not many people do that on this board, or anywhere else, actually.

That being said, there are many flaws here.

(1.) You're doing way too much upper body work relative to lower body;
(2.) You have too many unneccessary isolation exercises;
(3.) Too much upper body pushing and shoulder isolation -- potential rotator cuff injury;
(4.) You're training body parts unevenly, which is a common problem with muscle group splits like this.

My suggestions:

(1.) Cut the volume down significantly. Train 3 days a week.
(2.) Train solely with compound exercises for the time being (calf isolation excluded; maybe a few sets of planks for legitimate core strength).
(3.) Get out of the mindset of training "biceps, legs, chest, etc" and start training according to your body's natural movement patterns -- this means balancing upper and lower body pushing and pulling movements. Also, your upper body can move objects horizontally and vertically away from (push) and towards (pull) your torso. Each direction involves certain muscles, so if you train this way to work every muscle in the body several times over, elicit more growth hormones, get your workouts done faster, and develop greater strength. It will also prevent you from developing a hilarious, chicken-leg, pussy-back physique.

Example:

Monday: Lower Push/Upper Pull (A)

(1.) Back Squats - Lower Push
(2.) Pullups - Vertical Pull
(3.) DB Bulgarian Split Squats - Lower Push
(4.) BB Bent-Over Rows - Horizontal Pull

Wednesday: Lower Pull/Upper Push (B)

(1.) Deadlifts - Lower Pull
(2.) Bench Press - Horizontal Push
(3.) Unilateral DB Romanian Deadlifts - Lower Pull
(4.) BB Military Press - Vertical Push

Friday: Lower Push/Upper Pull (A)

(1.) Back Squats - Lower Push
(2.) Pullups - Vertical Pull
(3.) DB Bulgarian Split Squats - Lower Push
(4.) BB Bent-Over Rows - Horizontal Pull

*the following week alternate so A, B, A becomes B, A, B

Originally Posted by ryan92

for rep ranges
Quads & Hamstrings = 8-15 Reps / Set
Calves = 12-20 Reps / Set
Everything Else
Reps aiming for 10/8/8/fail (if possible keep going after reaching these number of reps in your set)

What's your rationale for these rep ranges? Also, you haven't indicated intensity. 8 reps performed at an 8 rep max (RM) is very intense (max effort), but 8 reps at a 20 RM is low-intensity.

Though you should research yourself and produce your own program, here's a basic example of periodization (I'll apply it to the example program above):

Week 1 and 2: 3 x 12 @ 14-15 RM w/ 1-1.25 min rest interval (RI)
Week 3 and 4: 3 x 8 @ 10 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
Week 5 and 6: 5 x 5 @ 6 RM w/ 2 min RI
Week 7 and 8: 3 x 3 @ 3-4 RM w/ 3 min RI (for weeks 5 - 8...for each leg plane's second exercise I'd suggest going for a higher rep range/lower intensity -- as from personal experience most unilateral leg lifts don't work very well with sub-maximal lifting)

You're begging for a shoulder injury with that much pressing.

Also, your rep ranges and intensities don't seem planned.

Originally Posted by Phineas

"It will also prevent you from developing a hilarious, chicken-leg, pussy-back physique." haha now this actually made me laugh haha, and your right, i wouldn't want to look like this

Example:

Monday: Lower Push/Upper Pull (A)

(1.) Back Squats - Lower Push
(2.) Pullups - Vertical Pull
(3.) DB Bulgarian Split Squats - Lower Push
(4.) BB Bent-Over Rows - Horizontal Pull

Wednesday: Lower Pull/Upper Push (B)

(1.) Deadlifts - Lower Pull
(2.) Bench Press - Horizontal Push
(3.) Unilateral DB Romanian Deadlifts - Lower Pull
(4.) BB Military Press - Vertical Push

Friday: Lower Push/Upper Pull (A)

(1.) Back Squats - Lower Push
(2.) Pullups - Vertical Pull
(3.) DB Bulgarian Split Squats - Lower Push
(4.) BB Bent-Over Rows - Horizontal Pull

Week 1 and 2: 3 x 12 @ 14-15 RM w/ 1-1.25 min rest interval (RI)
Week 3 and 4: 3 x 8 @ 10 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
Week 5 and 6: 5 x 5 @ 6 RM w/ 2 min RI
Week 7 and 8: 3 x 3 @ 3-4 RM w/ 3 min RI (for weeks 5 - 8...for each leg plane's second exercise I'd suggest going for a higher rep range/lower intensity -- as from personal experience most unilateral leg lifts don't work very well with sub-maximal lifting)

So is 4 exercises per session the right amount? or are you just giving me an example?

Originally Posted by ryan92

So is 4 exercises per session the right amount? or are you just giving me an example?

There's no right amount. Number of exercises is one of many training variables that can be played around with.

However, for the sake of a balanced push/pull program 4 exercises per session is pretty solid. That way you can have two for upper body and two for lower body, including one unilateral leg lift (which is always wise).

yea dude id listen 2 phineas, personaly i would never train 3 days uper body in a row way way to much of a spanking for your shoulders! i was training a similar kinda split but i would train say chest monday, back tues day, off weds or legs, then shoulders thurs n arms fri then do a heavy compound day satdy (over training)... but that being said iv cut down to 3 days n do more compound stuf now n my size and strength are increasing. Specialy arms thers no need to do "arm day" u just over train biceps, why curl say 25 kg DBs when u can do close grip lat pull downs wit over 100 kgs??

I would also look into adding some grip training on your lower push/pull days.

What are your goals?

to increase strength, but not size, i have no strength goal that i wanna reach, i just wanna continually improve, but yeh dont really want to put on size that much

i agree with flathead your grip is important. wrist curls reverse curls , seated wrist curls, the gripper or wat is the thing called for your grip by hammerstrength, phineas you would know?

In what way do you want to get stronger? There are a lot of different facets of "strength". Quantifiable goals are really important to your success.

Gaining, losing, or maintaining weight is all about your diet, so as long as you're not currently gaining and you don't change anything, you won't gain weight.

can you explain the diff facets, not sure what you mean? thanks heaps

Originally Posted by ryan92

to increase strength, but not size, i have no strength goal that i wanna reach, i just wanna continually improve, but yeh dont really want to put on size that much

Make some goals ,training objectives will give you something to aim for and work towards. You will get so much more satisfaction from achieving goals rather than training from session to session.

SMART Goals are the most effective
Specific
Measurable
Achievable
Realistic
Timed

If you follow this criteria and constantly adjust as you improve you cannot go wrong. SMART goals plus good periodisation should be the bedrock of any program.

ROAST

Originally Posted by ryan92

to increase strength, but not size, i have no strength goal that i wanna reach, i just wanna continually improve, but yeh dont really want to put on size that much

I really believe that if your looking to add strength, one has to set goals. Set target numbers & work as much variation as possible to achieve them. You will inevitably put on size with increased strength, of any amount.

Originally Posted by Flathead

You will inevitably put on size with increased strength, of any amount.

This is simply not true. There's a lot of neuromuscular activity involved in strength and few reach their full potential. You don't see the big bodybuilders squatting 1000+ lbs. for a reason.

can you explain the diff facets, not sure what you mean? thanks heaps

There are a lot of different ways to be strong. Some people are fast and explosive but their maximal force output is less than others. Some people train so that they can perform lifts over a certain rep range or time period. Others just want an all-out effort for as much weight as possible.

That's not even going into all the different ways strength is shown.

What's your purpose for adding strength? Are you playing a sport? Powerlifting? Training for strength is usually pretty specific to the sport. A basketball player and a football player are both strong, but in very different ways.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

This is simply not true. There's a lot of neuromuscular activity involved in strength and few reach their full potential. You don't see the big bodybuilders squatting 1000+ lbs. for a reason..

I'm not quite following ya here. I'm having a hard time gutting that if a guy gains a decent amount of strength, size wouldn't be quick to follow? Not calling you out, just looking to be educated here.


Flathead

Originally Posted by Flathead

I'm not quite following ya here. I'm having a hard time gutting that if a guy gains a decent amount of strength, size wouldn't be quick to follow? Not calling you out, just looking to be educated here.


Flathead

It's not always the case because strength still depends on the nervous system.

If you increase a muscle's cross-sectional area you'll increase force output, but that doesn't mean that increased force output implies an increase in muscle size.

It's one of those common logical errors:

A implies B.
B
Then, A.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

It's not always the case because strength still depends on the nervous system.

If you increase a muscle's cross-sectional area you'll increase force output, but that doesn't mean that increased force output implies an increase in muscle size.

It's one of those common logical errors:

A implies B.
B
Then, A.

What your saying makes sense to me. I just think that logic would change when compared to someone who's just starting out versus someone who's been training (properly) for awhile.

I can see it both ways, though.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

It's not always the case because strength still depends on the nervous system.

If you increase a muscle's cross-sectional area you'll increase force output, but that doesn't mean that increased force output implies an increase in muscle size.

It's one of those common logical errors:

A implies B.
B
Then, A.

Bang on.

This is how 90 lb Asian women in the Olympics can Clean and Jerk 250 lbs.