muscle growth

**bobweights** · 08-01-2010, 07:31 PM

im fairly new to weight lifting but have grown with a 3 times a week full body type routine for the past few months but have come to a bit of a plateau and cant seem to recover doing it 3 times a week as my lifts are now heavier, i want to gain muscle size along with strength. Assuming nutrition is good (i understand a vast amount of results come from the food you eat) what have more experienced lifters seen to be good sort of routines for gaining size? especially those with average genetics and not on gear. There is so much information about train each muscle group once per week such as push-pull-legs type routine others say do upper/lower type splits so each muscle groups gets trained roughly twice per week. I understand that you'll grow on all of them to a point but in your opinion which seem to work best for you?

**Phineas** · 08-01-2010, 07:42 PM

Everyone's different, and everyone will see great results from just about any form of training.

Every form of training has pros and cons, so there's really no best way. It's all how you manage all variables -- diet, recovery, training techniques, etc.

I think one of the most effective methods would be to combine several training styles into one. Gaz wrote a great article on his site (getlifting.info) about conjugate training -- which is a combination of different forms of lifting. There are three sessions a week: one for hypertrophy (bodybuilding-oriented); one for power; and one for olympic weight lifting and power lifting (neurological efficiency).

I followed for this program for 5 weeks and actually saw really good results, particularly in my back development. Put on some nice thickness.

Just a thought. Read around more. There are practically endless options.

**MMAWannabe** · 08-01-2010, 09:31 PM

I'm a bit of and oddball here in that I think once a week is the way to go in the absence of gears, depending on your level of fitness. I've seen great results personally and professionally hitting things very hard once a week. Once a person has been at it for quite awhile, then maybe twice a week, but it just depends on how it feels. If you can handle it great, if not wait until you can. Typically when I do go to twice a week, the 2nd day is designed to be less harsh than the first. You can find some good information in the stickies from cowpimp. Here's one of the links.

**gtbmed** · 08-01-2010, 10:20 PM

Honestly, I felt really big and strong when I was doing Westside. It really emphasizes PC work which is vital for growth.

**bobweights** · 08-02-2010, 03:33 AM

thanks guys this exactly what i was wanting, mmawannabe - can you post your routine please?

**Energy** · 08-02-2010, 08:21 AM

Hi bobweights,

I recall Mike Mentzer often saying that it's very common for bodybuilders to want to change their routine and add sets when their progression haults.

He then went on to suggest simply taking extra rest days to recover from the heavier weight loads your body is now having to deal with.

You could try something as simple as taking more rest days in between your workouts so you feel 100% to hit the routine again.

Just a thought.

**bobweights** · 08-02-2010, 03:33 PM

in effect thats what i will end up doing, but i want to know what other guys have found effective a routine that hits each muscle group once per week really hard or more of a upper lower split so each muscle group gets approx 2. just want some routines from some of the more experienced people on here.

**ROID** · 08-02-2010, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by MMAWannabe

I'm a bit of and oddball here in that I think once a week is the way to go in the absence of gears, depending on your level of fitness. I've seen great results personally and professionally hitting things very hard once a week. Once a person has been at it for quite awhile, then maybe twice a week, but it just depends on how it feels. If you can handle it great, if not wait until you can. Typically when I do go to twice a week, the 2nd day is designed to be less harsh than the first. You can find some good information in the stickies from cowpimp. Here's one of the links.

when you go twice a week do you train full body each session ?

**bobweights** · 08-02-2010, 08:49 PM

any one else want to give some suggestions?

**bobweights** · 08-04-2010, 02:38 PM

bump

**pablorivera** · 08-05-2010, 10:55 AM

@bobweights

I also started training with full body routine 3 times a week (mainly because I was focused on cutting at the time). Then I transitioned to a hybrid-split, where I continued a full body style routine, BUT I hit one muscle group HARD 1x per week. So in each workout one muscle group was the primary (which I hit hardest) and the others were for conditioning. But I only hit each muscle group hard 1x per week. Being disciplined about allowing rest was the tricky part.

**Built** · 08-07-2010, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by pablorivera

@bobweights

I also started training with full body routine 3 times a week (mainly because I was focused on cutting at the time). Then I transitioned to a hybrid-split, where I continued a full body style routine, BUT I hit one muscle group HARD 1x per week. So in each workout one muscle group was the primary (which I hit hardest) and the others were for conditioning. But I only hit each muscle group hard 1x per week. Being disciplined about allowing rest was the tricky part.

I've been thinking about doing exactly this for some time.

How do you like it? How long have you been doing it this way?

**bobweights** · 08-08-2010, 08:18 AM

@pablorivera

can you post an example of that type of routine?

**Zaphod** · 08-08-2010, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by energy

hi bobweights,

i recall mike mentzer often saying that it's very common for bodybuilders to want to change their routine and add sets when their progression haults.

He then went on to suggest simply taking extra rest days to recover from the heavier weight loads your body is now having to deal with.

You could try something as simple as taking more rest days in between your workouts so you feel 100% to hit the routine again.

Just a thought.

+1

**pablorivera** · 08-08-2010, 02:31 PM

Built: I've been thinking about doing exactly this for some time. How do you like it? How long have you been doing it this way?

@built - It's working out really good, but I'm still working out the bugs as I've only been doing it for only a month or so and still settling into a rep/weight/sets structure. This "Hybrid Split" as I call it, is just a "lean bulk" protocol I'm trying out, in an effort to accomplish 3 things:

1. Hit each muscle group only 1x per week (but hard), to allow
2. Sufficient recovery for that group
3. While still keeping the other muscle groups lightly active/conditioned (but not to impact recovery)

@bobweights - my Hybrid Split routine follows the LCAB Matrix format. When I was doing my Cutting Routine, it looked like this:

CUTTING ROUTINE

Set 1

L (legs) ............... Deadlifts (8 reps)
C (chest) ............. Bench Press (8 reps)
A (abs/core) ......... Plank (60 sec)
B (back) ............... Pullups (5-6 reps)

Time: 4 min
Rest: 1 min
Total: 5 min per set

* Minimal rest (15-20 sec) between exercises. Full minute between sets.
* Lift heaviest weight I can lift for 8 reps.
* Perform total of 4 sets for total of 20 min.
* Immediately go to cardio following weights.
* Restricting rest between exercises and sets makes the workout slightly anaerobic (increases intensity, post-workout metabolism/HGH flush, and FFA release)
* Then subsequent cardio burns off FFAs.

HYBRID SPLIT

Since I'm focusing on muscle growth now, each workout targets one primary muscle group, so that routine (currently) looks like this:

(For example, if it's CHEST day)

Set 1
C - Bench Press - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
L - Prisoner Squats - 8 reps
1 minute rest

Set 2
C - DB Presses - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
A - Plank - 60 sec
1 minute rest

Set 3
C - Push Ups - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
B - DB Rows - 8 reps
1 minute rest

Set 4
C - Bench Press - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
L - DB Squat - 8 reps
1 minute rest

Set 5
C - Incline DB Presses - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
A - Side Plank - 30 sec each side
1 minute rest

Set 6
C - DB Flies - 8 reps (<--- this is the target group)
B - DB Rows - 8 reps
1 minute rest

Here's what I'm targeting in each workout:

* The target muscle group gets worked out over 6 sets.
* I lift the heaviest weight I can for 6-8 reps.
* Each set begins with the target group, followed by a secondary exercise, followed by 1 min of rest.
* Each set is around 3 min (so really, the target group is getting around 2 min of rest in between sets).
* The secondary exercises are performed with light weights, and is really just a time of rest for the target group while also working the secondary groups.
* The target group rotates through several different exercises:
--> bench press -> db press -> push ups
--> bench press -> incline db press -> db flies
* The secondary exercises selected are non-important, but I follow the LCAB Matrix sequence because it's easy to remember and I don't have to refer to a printed sheet, etc.

L - prisoner squats -> db squats
C - -------- (this one is skipped because it's the target group for this day)
A - planks -> side planks
B - db rows -> pullups

Summary

Of the LCAB, whichever is the target group for that day, the others are secondary and rotated in. The ones in RED are the targets:

Mon----------Tue----------Wed----------Thur----------Fri----------
L..................L..................L............ .......L...................L............
C..................C.................C...................C............ ......C............
A..................A.................A...................A...................A.......... ..
B..................B..................B........... ........B..................B............

* Wed and Fri are light days... mainly light full body workouts with steady state cardio afterwards (30 min total for bodywork and cardio).
* Fri is when I'll do isolation exercises (shoulders, biceps, triceps)

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