Thread: Frequency of changing routines?

Originally Posted by LAM

lol I stated that changing the angle only changes the pattern of muscle fiber recruitment which is exactly what Charles and the EMG studies showed. the primary movers used in the exercise does not change. people make such a big deal out of these exercises like they are so different.

it's basic physics, the load is staying on the vertical axis so the forces on the body are the same. the only thing that changes is the relative angle of the body to the ground so from flat bench to decline or incline the body is going from being parallel to being perpendicular to the ground which causes the shoulder to articulate and there is flexion in the deltoid. it's not rocket science

Wow. I’m almost speechless. I would love to spend a couple hours educating you about what his article says and what the implications are, but I don’t have time.

I’m going to break this down for you one last time then move on. First the article you linked to states, “I highly recommend taking college courses on the basic sciences, such as anatomy, biomechanics and exercise physiology.” Have you done this? I have, but not only the basic ones but also the advanced with a B.S. and M.S. and more. I don’t know everything but I’ve gone way beyond “basic physics”. I have the education, experience and certifications. Have you ever used an EMG? I have. I always want to learn more, which is one reason to come here, but you have to know how sort the good stuff from the crap. Here are some of the things you need to understand.

1st: The description in your second paragraph above is not physics, it’s kinesiology

2nd: With your "basic physics" you don't do bench, incline or decline on a vertical axis. They are on a plane. If you modify your incline by rotating the bar on an axis I hope you don't knock your spotter out. No big deal, just not a correct use of terms.

3rd: When your reference an article, read it and know what it means. In your first post you said “the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does” Guess what, the mind is part of the body! That’s not important for this post though. You also said, “lol I stated that changing the angle only changes the pattern of muscle fiber recruitment which is exactly what Charles and the EMG studies showed. the primary movers used in the exercise does not change. people make such a big deal out of these exercises like they are so different.” The article you like to refer to contradicts both your statements when it says, “ With this information, I could now confidently answer this pec training question by saying that incline presses would be best for the upper pecs, and flat bench presses would be best for the lower pecs.” Did you skip that sentence in his article or something? If you had taken the classes he mentions it wouldn’t matter if you had read that statement as the rest of the article explains how this type of thing is true. You also said, “lol I stated that changing the angle only changes the pattern of muscle fiber recruitment which is exactly what Charles and the EMG studies showed.” When the article says, “another study that did EMG measurements of the incline, flat, and decline presses. It found that the maximum recruitment of the upper pecs was with an incline press, and the maximum recruitment of the lower pecs was with a flat, not decline, press”

To understand your linked article, you really don’t need a lot of knowledge, just pay attention. Please when you link to an article to prove your point, please make sure you have read and understand it! I could go into detail to explain how all of this really works, but as I said, I don’t have time. I hate to get so irritable, but you aren't paying attention even though you are trying to help.


Scout200 – I’m sorry to take up your thread with all of this. I just hate misinformation. With anything fitness related you will find a lot of individual differences. You have to try different things to figure out what works for. Most people will respond best to exercise variations planned into their macrocycle. Variations are not limited to changes in angles, but changes in technique, weight, sets, reps, total volume etc are all ways to add variety. Make sure whatever you do, you plan for it. Don’t just go to the gym and mess around. Check out the sticky posts above. There is a lot of good info there.

Originally Posted by MMAWannabe

Scout200 – I’m sorry to take up your thread with all of this. I just hate misinformation. With anything fitness related you will find a lot of individual differences. You have to try different things to figure out what works for. Most people will respond best to exercise variations planned into their macrocycle. Variations are not limited to changes in angles, but changes in technique, weight, sets, reps, total volume etc are all ways to add variety. Make sure whatever you do, you plan for it. Don’t just go to the gym and mess around. Check out the sticky posts above. There is a lot of good info there.

Hey, don't apologize! I'm looking for feedback and advice - even if it's contradictory... It's all a learning experience and you have contributed greatly! Thanks!

-Scout

You don't have to change your routine that often. A lot of times simply changing the order of exercises or the rest intervals is enough.

And I also agree that incline v. decline pressing changes muscle recruitment. Look at the position your arms are in at the bottom of the lift for evidence of that. In an incline press the elbows are below the torso which means more delt and pectoral involvement in bringing the weight to a position where the triceps can lock it out.

Originally Posted by MMAWannabe

Wow. I’m almost speechless. I would love to spend a couple hours educating you

eduacating me?ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..let me knowwhen you have done over 30,000 hours of research on this sport in 25 years then get back to me.

primary movers are the same..sorry I mispoke when I said plane vs axis..

Originally Posted by LAM

eduacating me?ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..let me knowwhen you have done over 30,000 hours of research on this sport in 25 years then get back to me.

primary movers are the same..sorry I mispoke when I said plane vs axis..

Yeah, your knowledge experience and understand really shows.........

If you have done 1/2 of what you said, it's obviously not sinking in. You make too many rudimentary mistakes that someone who knows 1/2 of what you claim to wouldn't make.

Axis-Plane, easy "typo".
Physics-Kinesiology, lack of understanding shows a little.
Not understanding the significance of the difference between a primary mover and muscle fiber activation, this may be over your head.
Referring to an article that contradicts your point and supports the person you are having the discussion with and constantly insisting that you know what your are talking about even though the info you use to back you up directly contradicts you....priceless.

I'm sure you are full of good info in many topics. The specificity of our debate obviously isn't one of them. I'm sure there is some area in strength and conditioning where you could teach me something. Science obviously isn't one of them. I don't want to come on here and make fun of anyone or start crap. Hell most of the time in this area everyone is right because what works can be very individual. But I just can't keep quiet when someone contradicts themselves then sticks with their story. Seriously, this is a joke that just keeps getting more amusing. Just let it go and move on. As long as you are going to state that there is no difference between flat, incline or decline because they all move vertically and have the same primary mover, I'll just respond with a pair of quotes from you.

Originally Posted by LAM

Pecs, Lies and Surgical TapeSense and nonsense about strength training research
by Charles Poliquin

Originally Posted by LAM

You are doubting Charles Poliquin? do you have any idea who he is? That's like doubting the strength training advice of of Tudor Bompa or Louie Simmons which is of course utterly ridiculous.

I personally don't ever change my entire routine. Sometimes I'll modify it though. Do bench for a few weeks than dumbbell bench the next few, sometimes throw in a little decline bench. Same with incline, do it for a few weeks than the next few dumbbell incline. So it's the same movement and work the same muscles, just different lifts.

But I've also heard of people who change there lifts everytime they workout. Like let's say a friend is doing a push workout. For example, one day he'll do: DB bench, incline bench, DB military, tricep extensions, and dibs. Later on in the week on another push day he'll do: bench, DB incline, military bench (BB), flies, and kickouts. So they work the same muscles but they are different routines. I don't know how effective this is but he claims it works and he likes it.

I'm sure you've heard of P90X. The whole approach of that is change. Do this routine for however long and than change it up after a certain amount of days. They claim it keeps the muscles guessing and doesn't allow them to adapt to certain types of routines. I've heard from one friend who is currently doing it that its excellent and he's getting a lot stronger. Is this true? I don't know but that's what he claims. Although I can see that he's gotten more definition now.

Maybe different ways work for different people? I couldn't tell ya. But from personal experience you don't really need to change. Maybe modify a few workouts if you get bored, but other than that I don't think its necessary.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

You don't have to change your routine that often. A lot of times simply changing the order of exercises or the rest intervals is enough.

You mentioned that you "don't have to change your routine that often".. What should the frequency of change be? Thanks for the advice!!

-Scout