Thread: Frequency of changing routines?

Depends on the routine. I love 5x5 routines, but my sets generally look something like 5,5,5,4,2 and then I work up to 5x5. I think lifting heavy like this I could make progress for a very long time. For example, I have yet to experience heavy squats as ineffective. That said, i've also experienced far more injuries doing these type of routines compared to others. So I now put a 3 month lid on these kind of routines, even if they're still giving good results. Then I cycle in a routine that's less taxing. These routines are more designed for maintaining strength and giving my body a break. I've also changed my routine to address lagging areas, once I feel the little lagger is brought up to speed, the routine is over. Frequency depends on the reason for changing your routine. I don't pick an arbitrary routine in order to "change it up" or set a specific time period for all my routines. You should have a reason for why you picked that routine and why you decided or didn't decide on a time frame. End of rant.

Originally Posted by scout200

How frequently should I change my weight lifting routine? What works better: Should I constantly change it up to keep my body guessing or should I keep at it until I hit a plateau?

-Scout

If it's not broken then don't fix it. the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does. that being the case sometimes changing the order in which exercises are performed is better than changing the actual exercises themselves. changing up exercises to frequently is counter productive to increasing maximum strength levels. repetition builds neurological pathways which is how we become more efficient at most tasks. think about who would be the better squatter the person who squats 2x a week or the person who squats only 2x a month.

plateaus occur for a variety reasons this is one place were training logs are a big help as you can look back at your wo over a period of time and see where you have been progressing etc.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Depends on the routine. I love 5x5 routines, but my sets generally look something like 5,5,5,4,2 and then I work up to 5x5. I think lifting heavy like this I could make progress for a very long time. For example, I have yet to experience heavy squats as ineffective. That said, i've also experienced far more injuries doing these type of routines compared to others. So I now put a 3 month lid on these kind of routines, even if they're still giving good results. Then I cycle in a routine that's less taxing. These routines are more designed for maintaining strength and giving my body a break. I've also changed my routine to address lagging areas, once I feel the little lagger is brought up to speed, the routine is over. Frequency depends on the reason for changing your routine. I don't pick an arbitrary routine in order to "change it up" or set a specific time period for all my routines. You should have a reason for why you picked that routine and why you decided or didn't decide on a time frame. End of rant.

I really like your suggestion about cycling. I know everyone is different and I would like to determine my personal time frame for cycling... How did you determine your "3 month lid"?

-Scout

Originally Posted by LAM

If it's not broken then don't fix it. the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does. that being the case sometimes changing the order in which exercises are performed is better than changing the actual exercises themselves. changing up exercises to frequently is counter productive to increasing maximum strength levels. repetition builds neurological pathways which is how we become more efficient at most tasks. think about who would be the better squatter the person who squats 2x a week or the person who squats only 2x a month.

plateaus occur for a variety reasons this is one place were training logs are a big help as you can look back at your wo over a period of time and see where you have been progressing etc.

Hey Lam,

You brought up a good point... have you heard of "Muscle Confusion"? I've been told that the only way to sustain continuous weight training success, is to keep your body guessing. That's why I initially asked the question.. lol - I need advice! But you're absolutely right!! A person who squats 2x's a week will see more benefits as opposed to someone who squats only 2x's a month. Help, I'm confused!! lol

-Scout

Originally Posted by scout200

I really like your suggestion about cycling. I know everyone is different and I would like to determine my personal time frame for cycling... How did you determine your "3 month lid"?

-Scout

Most of my injuries have come somewhere in 4-6 months of training. So I figured 3 months is a good amount of time. You can still make good gains but it's not overkill. It's been working good so far.

Change your program when you stop seeing results, or start to notice signs of overtraining/overreaching, or simply get bored with it.

young lifters get into the habit of constantly changing up their routines because they want to keep their muscle "guessing". If you constantly change your routine then you will never really progress, stick with a program and take it for everything it's worth.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Most of my injuries have come somewhere in 4-6 months of training. So I figured 3 months is a good amount of time. You can still make good gains but it's not overkill. It's been working good so far.

Gotcha! Thanks.

-Scout

Originally Posted by dmaipa

young lifters get into the habit of constantly changing up their routines because they want to keep their muscle "guessing". If you constantly change your routine then you will never really progress, stick with a program and take it for everything it's worth.

So I should throw that "confusing your muscles" theory out the window? The reason why I originally asked is because I started hearing more and more about the theory but several don't believe it's true...

-Scout

Muscles don't think. How can they be confused?

Originally Posted by scout200

Hey Lam,

You brought up a good point... have you heard of "Muscle Confusion"? I've been told that the only way to sustain continuous weight training success, is to keep your body guessing. That's why I initially asked the question.. lol - I need advice! But you're absolutely right!! A person who squats 2x's a week will see more benefits as opposed to someone who squats only 2x's a month. Help, I'm confused!! lol

-Scout

muscle confusion is bull shit and a made up term. repetition builds neurological pathways in the brain this is how we all get "better" at things. as the saying goes repetition is the mother of skill. for maximum increases in strength in exercise "X" your must master the proper form and technique of that exercise first. person A benches only 1x a week and person B benches 2x a week. B will perfect his technique much sooner than A which will enable him to make faster increases in strength, etc.

muscle confusion is a good way to sell products like P90X as people are always looking for that magic bean. advertisements with lean athletes sell products but don't confuse having a low body fat with strength. being lean is only a direct indicator that insulin sensitivity is high in the body.

many times simply changing the order of exercises is better than re-doing a whole training routine and don't forget periodization!

Originally Posted by LAM

muscle confusion is bull shit and a made up term. repetition builds neurological pathways in the brain this is how we all get "better" at things. as the saying goes repetition is the mother of skill. for maximum increases in strength in exercise "X" your must master the proper form and technique of that exercise first. person A benches only 1x a week and person B benches 2x a week. B will perfect his technique much sooner than A which will enable him to make faster increases in strength, etc.

muscle confusion is a good way to sell products like P90X as people are always looking for that magic bean. advertisements with lean athletes sell products but don't confuse having a low body fat with strength. being lean is only a direct indicator that insulin sensitivity is high in the body.

many times simply changing the order of exercises is better than re-doing a whole training routine and don't forget periodization!

I agree with you that you shouldn't change your workout if your still seeing results, but what's wrong with benching only once a week? I've made much better gains since switching to benching once a week. Obviously benching twice a week you will get more comfortable under the bar and perfect your form quicker then someone who benches only once a week, but in terms of strength I don't think benching twice a week would be more effective.

i agree with everyone who says that "confusing muscles" is BS. if you are progressing on an exercise and making gains why would you feel like you have to confuse it. Keep killing that exercise till you stop making gains, switch the exercise out and put in a new one. You can always come back to the old exercises.

also benching twice a week will not cause a person to gain strength, etc. faster. Tho you can bench twice a week if you pay attention to the volume and intensity, and how hard you train the other muscles to avoid overtraining or overuse of a muscle which will then lead to an injury.

Originally Posted by cshea2

I agree with you that you shouldn't change your workout if your still seeing results, but what's wrong with benching only once a week? I've made much better gains since switching to benching once a week. Obviously benching twice a week you will get more comfortable under the bar and perfect your form quicker then someone who benches only once a week, but in terms of strength I don't think benching twice a week would be more effective.

in terms of periodization you will make strength gains quicker "with" a properly designed program. the more microcycles of strength training that you accomplish over a given period of time the greater the increases in strength. the body only adapts in response to stimulus

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I don't pick an arbitrary routine in order to "change it up" or set a specific time period for all my routines. You should have a reason for why you picked that routine and why you decided or didn't decide on a time frame. End of rant.

To put things simply...Change is great and you should do it. What pushandpull says here is exactly right. All your body is doing is adapting. When you workout, if you workout well you are trying to do something your body struggles with. It doesn't like to struggle so it adapts and improves in order to make things easy for itself. By designing a routine with planned variety, you decrease the chance that your body will be happy with it's current state.

Originally Posted by LAM

If it's not broken then don't fix it. the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does. that being the case sometimes changing the order in which exercises are performed is better than changing the actual exercises themselves. changing up exercises to frequently is counter productive to increasing maximum strength levels. repetition builds neurological pathways which is how we become more efficient at most tasks. think about who would be the better squatter the person who squats 2x a week or the person who squats only 2x a month.

plateaus occur for a variety reasons this is one place were training logs are a big help as you can look back at your wo over a period of time and see where you have been progressing etc.

I have to say I do not agree with much of this post.

First if you use the incline and decline bench your body does know the difference. Most incline and decline benches greatly change the usage of the supporting muscles. For example, incline uses a lot of your anterior deltoid. If you want to focus on mainly pec and tricep development, change the angle only slightly. You can do this by putting a 25lb weight under the bench either in the front or back to create they angle you need.

Neural pathways are most important to novice builders. Strength gains for the first 4-6 weeks of a novice lifter primarily come from improvements in the nervous system. After that point muscle development is the primary difference, although you continue to develop neurologically. You improve neurologically by a few different ways. The rate of fire of motor units can increase and the number of muscles innervated by the motor unit also affect strength. If you stick with the exact same routine for a long period of time, you will limit the number of motor units affected during that time. If you plan for variety, you can use more motor units in more ways. Put simply you can either train a few in the same way for a long period of time, or you can train many in many ways. You body will improve itself and adapt with greater efficiency with the latter method.

Originally Posted by MMAWannabe

I have to say I do not agree with much of this post.

First if you use the incline and decline bench your body does know the difference. Most incline and decline benches greatly change the usage of the supporting muscles. For example, incline uses a lot of your anterior deltoid. If you want to focus on mainly pec and tricep development, change the angle only slightly. You can do this by putting a 25lb weight under the bench either in the front or back to create they angle you need.

Pecs, Lies and Surgical TapeSense and nonsense about strength training research
by Charles Poliquin

i found it got very boring doing the same routine day in and day out so i really try to mix it up not just for the muscle confusion but to take the dull out of the workouts to

Originally Posted by LAM

Pecs, Lies and Surgical TapeSense and nonsense about strength training research
by Charles Poliquin

That pretty much agreed with what I said. "First if you use the incline and decline bench your body does know the difference" and not what you said, "the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does." As mentioned in the article you linked to, the muscle recruitment varied depending upon the different factors such as a change in angle or grip. But I can say that in your link, he mentions several students but doesn't cite any of them. We don't know if the research was from a local high school, read on a website or out of a professional journal. He does mention the need to read good journals, but why doesn't he tell use where he got his pec info? Any way, he did point out the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. That is a good one. I still have stacks of them from back when they weren't so damn digital!


I will say not all research is good research and because he doesn't cite the "paper" he read, no one can look at it and determine if the study was done correctly. I took a few research methods classes when I was in college and the entire point of the most advanced one was to look at published research and determine if their study was valid, reliable etc. It's not hard to find poor work even in quality journals. The professor in that class had a side job of reviewing studies before they were published in a profession journal and he explained that although much of what you find is good work, not all of it is. One example I remember from back in the mid 90's was an research article that determined creatine was worthless because it didn't improve performance for athletes on a cycle ergometer. This was on of the worst studies I had ever seen as they literally concluded creatine did nothing to boos performance by doing an aerobic test for a compound that improves anaerobic performance. It was fundamentally wrong.

Sorry for the research rant....but thanks for posting a link that backs up part of my previous point.

Originally Posted by stevo123

i found it got very boring doing the same routine day in and day out so i really try to mix it up not just for the muscle confusion but to take the dull out of the workouts to

That is another good reason!

I think it all depends on the person. If your doing your routine to the fullest & are able to consistently increase your weights, there is no real set duration. I personally will do a rotation where I do Westside Barbell for 3-4 months & then one month of a 5*5 routine & then repeat.

Originally Posted by MMAWannabe

That pretty much agreed with what I said. "First if you use the incline and decline bench your body does know the difference" and not what you said, "the body does not know the difference between incline and decline bench but your mind does." As mentioned in the article you linked to, the muscle recruitment varied depending upon the different factors such as a change in angle or grip. But I can say that in your link, he mentions several students but doesn't cite any of them. We don't know if the research was from a local high school, read on a website or out of a professional journal. He does mention the need to read good journals, but why doesn't he tell use where he got his pec info? Any way, he did point out the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. That is a good one. I still have stacks of them from back when they weren't so damn digital!


I will say not all research is good research and because he doesn't cite the "paper" he read, no one can look at it and determine if the study was done correctly. I took a few research methods classes when I was in college and the entire point of the most advanced one was to look at published research and determine if their study was valid, reliable etc. It's not hard to find poor work even in quality journals. The professor in that class had a side job of reviewing studies before they were published in a profession journal and he explained that although much of what you find is good work, not all of it is. One example I remember from back in the mid 90's was an research article that determined creatine was worthless because it didn't improve performance for athletes on a cycle ergometer. This was on of the worst studies I had ever seen as they literally concluded creatine did nothing to boos performance by doing an aerobic test for a compound that improves anaerobic performance. It was fundamentally wrong.

Sorry for the research rant....but thanks for posting a link that backs up part of my previous point.

You are doubting Charles Poliquin? do you have any idea who he is? That's like doubting the strength training advice of of Tudor Bompa or Louie Simmons which is of course utterly ridiculous.

I think people saying "Muscle Confusion", is a bad way of describing "Muscle Variation"

Originally Posted by stevo123

i found it got very boring doing the same routine day in and day out so i really try to mix it up not just for the muscle confusion but to take the dull out of the workouts to

yep, that is a big part of training. another problem that causes a lot of people is that they really don't train with a purpose, which is where setting certain fitness goals comes into play. many people worry to much about calories burned, etc. during exercise instead of becoming more efficient at it.

in terms of strength Tudor Bompa and Louie Simmons recommend having several core strength exercises that you alternate. say for example you train chest 2x a week. On Day 1 you might do flat bench barbell and decline barbell and on Day 2 you would do incline barbell and flat bench barbell. Then when you hit a plateau on one of the exercises you switch to another. this is easier with some body parts than others as there are only so many closed chain exercises to do for the major body parts.

Originally Posted by LAM

You are doubting Charles Poliquin? do you have any idea who he is? That's like doubting the strength training advice of of Tudor Bompa or Louie Simmons which is of course utterly ridiculous.

Uhhh....you are starting to worry me. Read the first paragraph. I agree with the article, it also proves my point of how you were wrong. What I didn't like about the article was his lack of siting sources.

Originally Posted by Flathead

I think people saying "Muscle Confusion", is a bad way of describing "Muscle Variation"

I think the've found it's a good way to sell overpriced training dvds.

Originally Posted by dave 236

I think the've found it's a good way to sell overpriced training dvds.

There will always be someone trying to make a buck with or without a good program. But if you do the exact same thing all the time you are just asking for slow gains and plateaus. Muscle confusion is a great term to sound cool, but using a variety of ways to stimulate growth is still a solid idea.

Originally Posted by dave 236

I think the've found it's a good way to sell overpriced training dvds.

Absolutly