Thread: Input Requested!

How come you dont wanna do 5x5? Its a proven method! But anyway, I think it looks great, like you said about lunges go ahead and toss them in on your 4th day I'd say in replacement of the leg extensions. You get good quad and glute work from a lunge, and we all know a nice ass is always liked by the ladies! Have a good one!

Originally Posted by Life

I've been working on a new program for mass and would like some input. Setting it up as an 2 On/1 Off/2 On

Workout 1 (Chest, Triceps, Shoulders, Abs):
5x5 Flat Bench
2x8-10 Incline DB
2x8-10 DB Flys

5x5 Sh. Press
2x8-10 Front Raises (Thinking of doing side laterals instead)

2x8-10 Dips (+70 BW)
2x8-10 Skull Crushers

There's too much chest work. I'd ditch the flies and front raises. Toss in another shoulder compound. Military press (note that that's a standing overhead press, not seated). You want to balance your horizontal plane movements with vertical.

Workout 2 (Legs):
5x6-8 Squats
2x8-10 SL Deadlifts (Thinking of removing this, maybe replacing with hack squats and moving down?)
2x8-10 Leg Curls
3x7/7/7 Donkey Calf
2x8-10 Leg Ext.
3x15 Standing Calf Raise

Make this a push workout. It will still start with the heavy squats, but then follow with accessory pushing compounds. Lifts like split squats, front squats, lunges, etc.

Workout 3 (Back, Biceps, Abs):
3x8-10 Chinups
5x5 HS Upper Rows
2x8-10 Bent over rows
(Was thinking of adding either cable rows or 3-way t-bar)

5x10 DB Curls
2x8-10 Incline DB Curls

This workout looks pretty good. I'd add one more vertical pull (pullups, chinups, lat pulldowns). What are upper rows?

Workout 4 (Lower body):
5x5 Deadlifts
4x20 Hyperextensions
2x8-10 Leg Extensions (Maybe not?)
2x8-10 Step ups

Make this a pulling session. Start with the heavy deadlifts, then follow with accessory pulling. Lifts like romanian deads, sumo deads, good mornings, hyperextension, cable pull throughs, etc.

I was thinking about doing lunges on workout four but I was worried about over training legs, only leave a rest day in between the last leg workout. Maybe shoulders should be moved to workout four, giving more focus on chest.

If I add the t-bar to back day I would put it before the 5x5 Upper Rows.

I wouldn't be doing 5x5's but I've been doing 2x6-8 + 2x8-10's for a while and stopped getting any gains on that.

Thanks for the input!

See my comments above in red.

What Phineas said.

Damn I swore I replied to this but I don't know where it went...

Anyway onward and upward....

I know front raises use the chest for support but didn't really consider them as overworking. I guess you're saying in combination with everything else there. Military press huh? But I'm lazy and want to sit down! :P

I like your recommendations for #2, I'll move the calf sets in between for recovery time as needed between the squats.

Heavy Squats
Filler
Front Squats
Filler
Lunges

Look OK?

For #3, high rows are the machine where the grips starts above your head and goes down at about a 45 ending up at the sides of your chest. Medium-grip pulldowns or narrow t-bar?

For #4, I agree with you but I'll avoid the good mornings.

And its not that I don't want to do 5x5's, I just prefer other methods but my body has been on them so long I need to try something else.

You don't like good mornings?

Re military press, try Olympic bar corner presses, you'll love 'em.

What's your current training experience? That is, how long have you been consistently training and what's your 3RM for the squat?

For me, lowering my reps to about 3-5 or 4-6 and really push heavier weight. Lowered sets to about 4 but 5 is cool too if your getting a good pump. Standing military press is god for me, love the pump after the sets, still heavy as I can go with good form. Just increased my incline yesterday to 275lbs 4reps 5sets and warm up with 225 8-10reps 1 set. Had a problem keeping my ass in the seat, so I lowered the seat to level 8 and that solved the issue plus I'm tall so that gave me proper head placement on bench. For mass, just really focus on free weights and go heavy low reps 4-5 sets and eat eat eat. Try a creatine and whey protein shake, I mix the two and I've seen increase in my strength and ability to maintain a stronger workout.

you mentioned abs in your workout headings but I don't notice it in any of your workout descriptions. Try this for a good explosion in working out. On last rep of a pull excercise....pull the weight to you and hold it for as long as you can. It's a monster trust me. On squats try this...use a light weight about what you can military press plus maybe 25lbs -45lbs. Squat like normal but on the upward motion at standing postion press the weight above your head in a military press fashion. Complete squat to press is 1 rep. Explode on the press part and see how that burns ya. University of Alabama Football players use this excercise to increase overall strength and explosion. Saw a video on ESPN a week ago and thought it would help me and it has.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

What Phineas said.

This, great post by him.

Not too much more needs to be said really.

Originally Posted by m11

What's your current training experience? That is, how long have you been consistently training and what's your 3RM for the squat?

I've been training 4-5 days a week for the past two years consistently. 2-3 days for a year before that (Consistently). 3RM max for squat is around 330, I just started squats back up as I hit a plateau with leg press (640). Stabilizers weren't were they should be (Dislocated my knee about four years back and had trouble with movement, the reason for the lack in the squat area).

Originally Posted by Life

Damn I swore I replied to this but I don't know where it went...

Anyway onward and upward....

I know front raises use the chest for support but didn't really consider them as overworking. I guess you're saying in combination with everything else there. Military press huh? But I'm lazy and want to sit down! :P

I didn't mean front raises use the chest. Saying too much chest work and ditch flies and front raises were two seperate thoughts. Basically, I meant there's too much chest work, period, and before even getting into which exercises are best to use I'd immediately ditch the isolation lifts.

Military press is such a useful exercise; it would be good if you could convince yourself to pick it up. An added bonus is it requires next to no setup.

I like your recommendations for #2, I'll move the calf sets in between for recovery time as needed between the squats.

Heavy Squats
Filler
Front Squats
Filler
Lunges

Look OK?

That looks perfect. This is how I do my push and pull leg sessions. 3 compounds with calf work in between each (I also do calf work on other days ). Can I suggest the following rep ranges in order of the compounds you listed? 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM; 3 x 8 @ 10-11 RM; 3 x 12-15 @ N/A.

For #3, high rows are the machine where the grips starts above your head and goes down at about a 45 ending up at the sides of your chest. Medium-grip pulldowns or narrow t-bar?

I think you might mean lat pulldowns?



Or maybe the hammer strength high rows (never used them before).



For #4, I agree with you but I'll avoid the good mornings.

And its not that I don't want to do 5x5's, I just prefer other methods but my body has been on them so long I need to try something else.

Why don't you want to do 5x5? It's a very effective method. Sort of like an endurance take on sub-maximal lifting. For those who think P90X and crossfit are so "intense" they should try a single 5x5 session of back squat or deadlifts and see if they still feel the same way about "intensity". Plus, you then go for accessory work. I think you should at least give it a try. It's a good way to ease into to regular heavy lifting should you decide down the road to get into powerlifting (as 5x5 has encouraged me to do so).

See comments.

Originally Posted by Built

You don't like good mornings?

Re military press, try Olympic bar corner presses, you'll love 'em.

Maybe I'm alone on this one but I always found corner press to be ideal for high-rep accessory work, or at least no less than 7 or 8 reps. I tried sub-maximal lifting and if my arm moved slightly out of the push path then I was screwed. I think there's a bit too much arm/shoulder positioning with that one.

Still, awesome, awesome lift. Best part is it's a pretty practical lift, IMO. I liked it best in your shoulder of the giants program, which I used last fall with great success.

Yeah I was referring to the hammer strength high rows. So keep the high rows and add either pulldowns or the t-bar?

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Originally Posted by Life

Yeah I was referring to the hammer strength high rows. So keep the high rows and add either pulldowns or the t-bar?

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Those "high rows" are basically a non-cable, machine version of a lat pulldown -- a vertical pull. So now, you have two verticals and one horizontal (actual row). I would incorporate another row exercise, but try to make it a free-weight.

You could do T-Bar, but that's basically a wall-supported (as opposed to spine-supported) variation of a bent-over row, a bit safer but pretty much identical lift mechanics. I'd go with a unilateral variation. DB bench rows are excellent.

I'll add bench rows. I normally do them but the weight is pretty high and I thought it might be overworking with this routine but I guess not!

Thanks!

just hit my leg press yesterday for 810lbs for 5 reps 4 sets, nice its a personal best. And hit the sled for 500lbs and 10 reps 3 sets. Definitely seeing strength increases across the board. Thanks to all, for all the good advice I've read on this forum.

Originally Posted by midwest216

just hit my leg press yesterday for 810lbs for 5 reps 4 sets, nice its a personal best. And hit the sled for 500lbs and 10 reps 3 sets. Definitely seeing strength increases across the board. Thanks to all, for all the good advice I've read on this forum.

Congrats on the PR!

Gotta love 'em good mornings.

Originally Posted by Built

You don't like good mornings?

Re military press, try Olympic bar corner presses, you'll love 'em.

please explain to me what is this corner presses. never heard of them or seen them done. i might try them if i knew how built. peace

Deadlifts (Heavy)
Hyperextensions
Donkey Calf
Pull Throughs
Good Mornings
Standing Calf
Sumo dead

Look OK?

Originally Posted by unclem

please explain to me what is this corner presses. never heard of them or seen them done. i might try them if i knew how built. peace

Check out #9 on the second page

Load up a few plates and join the fan club