Thread: Squatting programs

I think that sounds like a great idea.

I would also like to see a thread devoted to programs built around deadlifts. Yoy always hear about squat programs, but not so much for deads.

What programs do you know about already? I've done a few good ones. I have one or two deadlift programs too. Could make a good sticky.

My dead-on favorite is this:

For squats, pick a weight you can do just 10 reps with. go to 20, but take deep breath in between reps.

Session 1:
20 rep squats 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Romanian Deadlifts; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Weighted Pullups; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
.
Session 2:
20 rep standard deadlift 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Barbell Push Press; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Hang Cleans;2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
.
Session 3:
20 rep squats 1x20
Dumbbell Pullover; 1x12
5 minute rest;
Incline Bench Press; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps
Barbell Rows; 2 warms, 1 work set of 5-10 reps

Originally Posted by gtbmed

Would anyone be interested in a thread detailing some programs designed specifically around squats? I have 8 or 9 programs in mind right now that I could write up and others could add their own.

Yeah do it, id be interested

i would be interested in learning new deads and squats? if u explain them, or i should of said, how they are done but dont put like rces just explain wat the abbreviation means that would be a hell of a idea. iam aboard.

Sounds like a great idea.

The entire idea behind this program is pretty simple - the first 3 weeks you slowly accumulate volume. The last 3 weeks you're going to slowly decrease volume and increase intensity to peak by week 6.

The 6x2 days are like "maintenance days" where you get your reps in, actively recover, and perfect your technique.

All percentages are a percent of your 1rm.

Week 1
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 6x3 @ 80%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 2
day1 6x4 @ 80%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 6x5 @ 80%

Week 3
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 6x6 @ 80%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 4
day1 5x5 @ 85%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 4x4 @ 90%

Week 5
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 3x3 @ 95%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 6
day1 2x2 @ 100%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 2x1 @ 105%

Originally Posted by gtbmed

The entire idea behind this program is pretty simple - the first 3 weeks you slowly accumulate volume. The last 3 weeks you're going to slowly decrease volume and increase intensity to peak by week 6.

The 6x2 days are like "maintenance days" where you get your reps in, actively recover, and perfect your technique.

All percentages are a percent of your 1rm.

Week 1
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 6x3 @ 80%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 2
day1 6x4 @ 80%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 6x5 @ 80%

Week 3
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 6x6 @ 80%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 4
day1 5x5 @ 85%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 4x4 @ 90%

Week 5
day1 6x2 @ 80%
day2 3x3 @ 95%
day3 6x2 @ 80%

Week 6
day1 2x2 @ 100%
day2 6x2 @ 80%
day3 2x1 @ 105%

One suggestion would to, if possible, switch from percentage-based intensities to the much simpler rep-max system. Especially for new lifters, or anyone new to the periodization format, figuring out the percentages can be complicated. Even I don't know my 1RM on anything. I've only done a 1RM once and that was over a year ago. I much prefer to say I'm going to perform "5 sets of 5 @ 5 - 6 RM".

Also, what might be cool is for each program to briefly discuss its pros and cons. That way, people looking through the thread for potential program ideas can assess whether or not the program is a good fit for them. After all, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

For instance, while 20-rep squat is said by many to be one of the best programs around, my first thought was "well, what if I fail on one of the reps? Do I stop the set? Do I re-rack the BB and continue from where I left off? Do I start over?" You can have all the will-power in the world, but when you're squatting a weight for 20 reps that technically you should have failed on at rep 11 there are so many logistics involved that can cause your set to stop. I admit I haven't done the program yet, but just from reading about it that's the one con I can see. Also, maybe added food costs for the diet changes, as it's a very diet-heavy program, etc.

Originally Posted by Phineas

One suggestion would to, if possible, switch from percentage-based intensities to the much simpler rep-max system. Especially for new lifters, or anyone new to the periodization format, figuring out the percentages can be complicated. Even I don't know my 1RM on anything. I've only done a 1RM once and that was over a year ago. I much prefer to say I'm going to perform "5 sets of 5 @ 5 - 6 RM".

Also, what might be cool is for each program to briefly discuss its pros and cons. That way, people looking through the thread for potential program ideas can assess whether or not the program is a good fit for them. After all, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

For instance, while 20-rep squat is said by many to be one of the best programs around, my first thought was "well, what if I fail on one of the reps? Do I stop the set? Do I re-rack the BB and continue from where I left off? Do I start over?" You can have all the will-power in the world, but when you're squatting a weight for 20 reps that technically you should have failed on at rep 11 there are so many logistics involved that can cause your set to stop. I admit I haven't done the program yet, but just from reading about it that's the one con I can see. Also, maybe added food costs for the diet changes, as it's a very diet-heavy program, etc.

Fair enough, I will try to answer as much of this as possible about each program.

As a baseline, your 5RM is usually about 90% of your 1RM. If you can hit a 5RM of 250, your 1RM is close to 270-280. Your 8RM is about 80% of your 1RM. The close you can get to actually testing for a 1RM, the better. But a lot of these programs involve a bit of error.

I've heard of a lot of people using a "training max" which is really just a conservative estimate of their true max.

For most of these programs you should be able to get all of your work in. If you can't finish a set, simply do as many reps as you can and try to stick with the rest of the program. If you find yourself failing every time you train, then you need to re-evaluate the weights you're using or your recovery methods.

Sometimes if I have a bit of trouble I'll just re-rack the weight, collect myself, get back into a good stance, and try to squeeze out the last few reps. An extra 15-20 seconds of rest without the barbell on your shoulders can be really helpful.

As for the Russian squat routine:

The main advantages here are frequency and volume. In doing 18 sets of squats over 3 days every week, you're going to feel very confident in your squat form. Weights that seemed heavy on your back will seem normal and your work capacity is going to increase as well.

Another advantage is that recovery is somewhat built into the program. In going 6x2 every other workout, you're not only giving your body a chance to recover but also doing enough work to perfect your form.

Still this program is difficult. Squatting with 6x6 of your 8RM is going to be very difficult and squatting 3 times per week is a lot more than most people can tolerate. You must reduce deadlift volume while on this program and you'll probably want to reduce your upper body work a bit to help with recovery. Some people like to bulk on a program like this and I will say that it's not a bad idea if you're not confident in your ability to recover from each workout.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

As for the Russian squat routine:

The main advantages here are frequency and volume. In doing 18 sets of squats over 3 days every week, you're going to feel very confident in your squat form. Weights that seemed heavy on your back will seem normal and your work capacity is going to increase as well.

Another advantage is that recovery is somewhat built into the program. In going 6x2 every other workout, you're not only giving your body a chance to recover but also doing enough work to perfect your form.

Still this program is difficult. Squatting with 6x6 of your 8RM is going to be very difficult and squatting 3 times per week is a lot more than most people can tolerate. You must reduce deadlift volume while on this program and you'll probably want to reduce your upper body work a bit to help with recovery. Some people like to bulk on a program like this and I will say that it's not a bad idea if you're not confident in your ability to recover from each workout.

You mentioned reducing volume on deads and upper body work, but to what degree? What should accessory training look like?

Originally Posted by Phineas

One suggestion would to, if possible, switch from percentage-based intensities to the much simpler rep-max system. Especially for new lifters, or anyone new to the periodization format, figuring out the percentages can be complicated. Even I don't know my 1RM on anything. I've only done a 1RM once and that was over a year ago. I much prefer to say I'm going to perform "5 sets of 5 @ 5 - 6 RM".

I disagree entirely on this point. Using percentages seems to be a much easier method for determining intensity then does the rep-max system. The main reason being that nearly all programs of importance are established by percent intensity. After plenty of trial and error, the Eastern Bloc guys, etc. published values for percentage intensities that they found were most effective. They are not random guesses. Using the rep-max system requires conversion from the common convention. Additionally, finding your 5 rep max is the same process as finding the 1 rep max. So in essence, you're not actually doing anything particularly different because making the math more difficult on yourself.

Originally Posted by Phineas

For instance, while 20-rep squat is said by many to be one of the best programs around, my first thought was "well, what if I fail on one of the reps? Do I stop the set? Do I re-rack the BB and continue from where I left off? Do I start over?" You can have all the will-power in the world, but when you're squatting a weight for 20 reps that technically you should have failed on at rep 11 there are so many logistics involved that can cause your set to stop. I admit I haven't done the program yet, but just from reading about it that's the one con I can see.

You haven't done the program yourself so I'll give you a reprieve. Nonetheless, the appropriate way to handle a 20-rep squat set is to first remove one's tampon, take the necessary rest between each rep (the less one needs to rest for a given weight, the stronger one is getting), and then finish the set. Then one can rerack and vomit or pass out or do whatever.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

The close you can get to actually testing for a 1RM, the better.

That's true but I feel like there's an overestimation of the difficult for determining a 1 rep max. Pick a weight, lift it, if you can do more, keep lifting until you fail. Get plenty of rest between sets. Getting within 10 pounds or whatever is fine for most intents and purposes.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

I've heard of a lot of people using a "training max" which is really just a conservative estimate of their true max.

My understanding of a "training max" is a weight that is 90% of your 1RM. Using a training max instead of a true/competition 1RM allows for one to delay a plateau beyond if intensities were calculated off a true 1RM and to avoid failure during the main movements.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

If you find yourself failing every time you train, then you need to re-evaluate the weights you're using or your recovery methods.

I echo what gtbmed is saying here. The majority of programs either forbid training to failure or seem to have sets designed to allow one to go to/near failure for the purpose of, for example, setting rep maxes. Either way, if one is failing when it's not accounted for, the individual needs obviously needs to determine the cause.

That Russian one looks similar to the Smolov squat cycle. Which by the way is almost as unholy as the 20 rep squat program in its mind raping difficulty. It's too complicated to summarize here, so here is an article:

Another Russian Super Cycle: A Strength Training and Powerlifting article from Dragon Door Publications

This is the program that finally got me squatting over a hundred kilos for the first time about 2 or 3 years ago when i was weak and pathetic.

Originally Posted by Phineas

You mentioned reducing volume on deads and upper body work, but to what degree? What should accessory training look like?

This depends a lot on your level of experience as a lifter. I've been squatting 2-3 times per week practically since I started training, so the volume and frequency of a lot of these programs doesn't shock me as much as it might shock a different lifter.

But in general, I would reduce deadlifting to once per week, 3-5 sets at the most. For some of the tougher programs like Smolov, I just did 5 light sets of speed deadlifts to maintain my explosiveness off the floor and that was it.

As for upper body work, I think you can include a decent amount of it, but keep in mind that if you're hammering squats, your upper body lifts aren't going to get the same quality of work that they would otherwise. When I do these programs, I'll try to incorporate bench pressing, some type of overhead press, some type of row or clean, and chinups. I usually do 3-5 sets of about 5 reps of each of these.

Another way to compensate would be to choose an exercise that forces you to use a lighter weight. For example, choose dumbell bench press over barbell benching. Do Romanian deadlifts instead of conventional deads. These are all ways to get your other work in while still allowing yourself enough recovery.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

That Russian one looks similar to the Smolov squat cycle. Which by the way is almost as unholy as the 20 rep squat program in its mind raping difficulty. It's too complicated to summarize here, so here is an article:

Another Russian Super Cycle: A Strength Training and Powerlifting article from Dragon Door Publications

This is the program that finally got me squatting over a hundred kilos for the first time about 2 or 3 years ago when i was weak and pathetic.

This is absolutely the toughest program I have ever done bar none. But it works and you will never feel any stronger than you do during this program.

The pros are pretty obvious - high frequency of squatting, high intensities, and a volume/intensity scheme that is based on total tonnage. Beyond that, work capacity and recovery ability will improve a lot.

A lot of people struggle with this program and quit because the first 1.5 weeks are very tough. If you can make it through week 2, though, you'll find that your body adjusts well to the program. I'm not saying it's easy, because it certainly isn't, but it's rewarding and effective.

The main con I see is that the weekly increases in weights aren't based on percentages. So if you're a novice squatter, the weight increases are going to be pretty tough. Also, you absolutely have to make sure that you recover from session to session. Do a small amount of assistance work, get lots of sleep, eat in a caloric surplus if you must, etc. You will fail on this program if you don't take care of your lifestyle.

Since Gaz already detailed the true Smolov routine (for squatting), I thought I'd write up Smolov Jr., which is just a lightened version of Smolov's "Base Mesocycle". This program is a bit easier and would be especially suited to a beginner who doesn't have a lot of experience with squatting programs.

It's also been used very effectively for benching and deadlifting.

Smolov Jr.

Week 1 (SETSxREPSxWEIGHT)

Mon - 6x6x70%
Wed - 7x5x75%
Fri - 8x4x80%
Sat - 10x3x85%

Week 2

Mon - 6x6x70%+10-20 lbs (bigger increase for bigger lift like squats)
Wed - 7x5x75%+10-20 lbs
Fri - 8x4x80%+10-20 lbs
Sat - 10x3x85%+10-20 lbs

Week 3

Mon - 6x6x70%+15-25 lbs
Wed - 7x5x75%+15-25 lbs
Fri - 8x4x80%+15-25 lbs
Sat - 10x3x85%+15-25 lbs

Week 4

Mon - Rest
Wed - Rest
Fri - Work up to a 1RM
Sat - Work up to a 1RM if you want to beat Friday's result

Originally Posted by gtbmed

This depends a lot on your level of experience as a lifter. I've been squatting 2-3 times per week practically since I started training, so the volume and frequency of a lot of these programs doesn't shock me as much as it might shock a different lifter.

But in general, I would reduce deadlifting to once per week, 3-5 sets at the most. For some of the tougher programs like Smolov, I just did 5 light sets of speed deadlifts to maintain my explosiveness off the floor and that was it.

As for upper body work, I think you can include a decent amount of it, but keep in mind that if you're hammering squats, your upper body lifts aren't going to get the same quality of work that they would otherwise. When I do these programs, I'll try to incorporate bench pressing, some type of overhead press, some type of row or clean, and chinups. I usually do 3-5 sets of about 5 reps of each of these.

Another way to compensate would be to choose an exercise that forces you to use a lighter weight. For example, choose dumbell bench press over barbell benching. Do Romanian deadlifts instead of conventional deads. These are all ways to get your other work in while still allowing yourself enough recovery.

When you used this type of training obviously your leg, back, and posterior chain in general would gain a great deal of strength, but did you find it awkward to resume heavy deadlifting down the road, not having practiced the technique at submaximal loads or really much volume at all for an extended period?

Originally Posted by Phineas

When you used this type of training obviously your leg, back, and posterior chain in general would gain a great deal of strength, but did you find it awkward to resume heavy deadlifting down the road, not having practiced the technique at submaximal loads or really much volume at all for an extended period?

One thing that will suffer if you don't work on it is your grip strength. It might be a good idea to do some static holds while on these programs. That's one thing I didn't do and after I resumed deadlifting, grip strength was the limiting factor.

But your deadlift should go up. Don't expect to gain as much on deadlifts as you do on squats, but on most of these programs you can at least maintain your current deadlift strength.

I've enjoyed reading this thread a great deal. Lots of great information and ideas. Hope the thread continues. Great idea for a thread.