Thread: Training routine need advice!!

Welcome to IM.

I'll make some assumptions to cut to the chase:
-Your diet is in order (we can help with that if you'd like, it's probably more important than your training)
-You are trying to get bigger/stronger
- I suppose you kind of intimated this idea in your first sentence but, either way, I don't think that you've actually done this routine. If you have, I don't think you would last for more than a few weeks.

Also, what's your current conditioning in terms of your 3RM for the squat, bench, deadlift?

_my diets bang on
_i am trying to get bigger and the added bonus of beng stronger
_ i had done a similar routine before for 6 weeks only difference was all exerises where in the 6 to 8 rep range and the only difference with this routine and the one i was doing was that i done 5 sets instead of the PLANNED 12

I DID NOT GET TIRED DOING THIS ROUTINE AND GOT STRONGER PROABLY THORUGH THE TOP OF THE RANGE CREATIN IM USUING


erm not to sure bout 3RM but my one rep max for bench is 75 not sure about aquat or deadlift, i would estimate for deads 65 and not to sure about squats

* 5 sets of tricep exerises on friday rather then the planed 12

At your current conditioning, there isn't a need for such extensive isolation work. Additionally, the limited amount of rest time will significantly cut into your ability to progress.

Just gathering some more info: What is your age, height, weight, bodyfat percentage?


Also, can you tell us about your diet? How many calories are you taking in?

Hey mate!

I'm not super experienced like some others here, but I can impart some of what I've learnt in the 2 years since I started lifting again.

1) You have the exact same amount of sets for shoulders as you do for legs. I would drop most of the shoulder excercises.
2) Great that your doing Deadlifts but why only 2 sets? I would do the 5 sets just like you do for squats.
3) There is a lot of volume in this program, way to much for me. If you want a good program try Builts "Baby got back" or Gazholes "Texas Method".
4) Drop the majority of iso excercises and stick to heavy compounds. Eg. On your back day you don't do pullups/chinups, which I think are a must.

There alot more that you could look at changing but I hope this is a start.

Totally agree with what Yeksetm and Marat have said. Too much volume, probably not enough rest days, and need more deadlifting and less pressing.

I think i have pretty strong and big shoulders for my overall size, and literally all i do for them is 3-5 sets of military press a week, and some cleans. Obviously bench and rowing factors in there, but you get the picture.

Listen to these guys. Volume is great for putting on size, but excessive volume is a quick road to overtraining. Its not a terrible program, but some little tweaks would make it a hell of a lot better. The way i see it:

Drop the shoulders and arms days altogether, put one or two tricep exercises from arms day on chest/tri day, and add military press to that day aswell. Put one or two bicep exercises from arms day into back day. Do more deadlifts. Add a front squat to legs day as well as back squats.

Even this isn't fantastic, but its a compromise. This way you'll be a bit more balanced, and you'll have two extra rest days to eat and GROW.

19, 6 ft 185 pounds 14.5% bodyfat
i roughly get somwhere between 3000 to 3200 calories a day

i wake up have a maximuscle protein shake ( 20 grams of protein)
250ml fresh orange juice

30 mins to an hour later i have 40grams of porage and tablespoon of honey

1 hour after that maximuscle protein shake amminos creatine ect

cnp pro mass post shake and medium bannah, and supps

1 hour and half later a source of carbs i have sweet potatoes everyother day 300 grams,
in between these days my carb source will be white potatoes, and wholegrain cous cous

my protein source will be steak, then salmon, then chicken, then salmon then steak again
i have either brockely or apaarugus, i change them around everyday, (tablespoon of olive oil)

THEN I EAT EVERY 2_ 2.5 HOURS AFTER THAT

cnp pro mass shake

then maximuscle shake

then 3 whole emega 3 eggs,30 grams of mixed nuts, and a shitload of raw spinich

and finally either quark or cottage cheese 250 to 300 grams of either , i rotate them around everyday with 2 big tablespoons of peanut butter



well i am planning to do 2 sets of deads cuz i was doing 3 before so id though id change it around ect but i guess il do 4 sets of deads and 4 sets of squats

i understand rest is important but i no sooooooo many people that go to the gym 6 days a week and get big results train triceps twice a week etc i even no someone who went everyday for 6 months got obsessed no lie lol!! and got massive and he done way more sets then me and trained them all to failure, training biceps 3 times a week!! so really i no it wud be stupid to train msucle group the day after working on it but 2 days rest is fine im sure

and dont small muscle groups like tris and bis recover quicker,

also shoulders if only trained once directly then i would like to hit them hard and i think 12 sets is reasonable

any views?

Fuck what other people do. Other people can be genetically gifted, on the gear, or both. Are you these things? Because i'm neither.

Sure this sort of training CAN work, but i see people who train ONLY bench press and curls get a big chest and guns. They also get shoulder injuries and have looked exactly the same for seven years.

If you're sure your program is fine, why ask for advice? Not being a dick here, but i get this sort of thing all the time at work (in a gym) and on this forum. Take it or leave it.

Do you want to get big and strong? YES! Then stick to heavy compounds. Some isolation is fine. Your biceps and triceps get hit when doing pulling / pushing excercises.
I know from personal experience that after I've done an upper pull day my biceps have definately been hit.

The key is to find what works for you! What works for one person may not work for others. I would suggest though that you listen to the more experienced people on this forum and read the stickies! They have helped me!

Cheers

okay do you think a reasonabal compromise to tricep training would be instead of performing any sets on a monday to train triceps say 12 sets ona friday 7 compound sets of narrow grip pushups, 2 seated one arm overhead sets, and 3 one arm pushdowns wile using my free arm to fet a few extra reps in and reaaly push my tris

also i forgot to add is that i do not like to train tris on chest day as it weakens my tris so cnt perfrom 100%

Why the obsession with tricep training? I would much rather do more volume on compound lifts than isolations. If you have to use assistance to get a few more reps out then you've probably already hit failure and have done enough already.

my triceps badly let me down they are lagging, yh i undertand compound shud be the main focus of your training but a few sets of isolotions exerises will be goood to add to the tris to stimulate it slightly differently,

i also forgot to add wud u guys raher do 2 sets of seated overhead pushups( which target the long head) or 2 sets of bar pressdowns ( laterial head)

Originally Posted by jmesherghi

my triceps badly let me down they are lagging, yh i undertand compound shud be the main focus of your training but a few sets of isolotions exerises will be goood to add to the tris to stimulate it slightly differently,

i also forgot to add wud u guys raher do 2 sets of seated overhead pushups( which target the long head) or 2 sets of bar pressdowns ( laterial head)

Seated overhead pushups? Do you mean seated shoulder press?
AND 12 sets is not a few!

oh sory i meant seated overhead extensions

okay fair enough thats your opinion but my opinion is 12 sets is the optimum amount of sets if your going to train a body part once per week

everyone i talk to at my gym train with the same intensity if not more like training tricpes 2 times a week and they get more then good reuslts and they are not on roids or everything and if suppousledly you have to be genetically gifted to train with high intensity like 6 to 5 days a week then fuk nearly everyone i no are "geneticall gifted"

Originally Posted by yeksetm

Do you want to get big and strong? YES! Then stick to heavy compounds. Some isolation is fine. Your biceps and triceps get hit when doing pulling / pushing excercises.
I know from personal experience that after I've done an upper pull day my biceps have definately been hit.

The key is to find what works for you! What works for one person may not work for others. I would suggest though that you listen to the more experienced people on this forum and read the stickies! They have helped me!

Cheers

You're going to fit in nicely in this forum.

Your an adult so ultimately your going to do what you want! As I have seen with others requesting training advice you seem to be arguing the advise being thrown your way.

By no means should you accept everything as gospel but there are numerous people here with a wealth of experiene and knowledge that I wouldn't disregard.

Cheers

This post by Phineas is a perfect example why you should listen to other people on this website.


In the days I mentioned of my higher bench to squat I was deadlifting with EZ Bars, haha. Oh man I can't believe some of the shit I did in my beginner period. I remember being so mesmorized with the broskies at my gym who were doing preacher curls and all that shit. I copied everything they did. So much upper body work.

It's funny to look at my original posts when I joined here. I was asking all the same questions our newbs ask, lol. I got flamed many times. I was all about the inner bicep, upper pec, build muscle and lose fat nonsense. Over time I did more research and one by one I had to come to terms with my gym dogma. When broskies throw shit in the wind it very easily hits others' faces, and I was smothered and stinky. I rememember all the major milestones from going from a bro to an actual lifter:

(1.) Splitting legs into twice a week for pushing and pulling.

(2.) Ridding myself of muscle group training for upper body, and switching to push/pull training.

(3.) ELIMINATING ISOLATION (except for calf work, of course )

(4.) Accepting that my squat ROM was pussy. Adopted box squats to learn to squat to and/or below parallel. Took months to relearn the lift at that depth.

(5.) Accepting that deadlifts ARE NOT BACK TRAINING. Learning the proper mechanics and applying the knowledge to my lift immediately added about 30 lbs to my deadlift in one session. Yes, this is actually true. Last November.

(6.) Writing my first planned program, and not just what exercises I do. Using proper periodization for the first time, and setting actual goals.

(7.) Used my first program to assess specific weakpoints (Built wrote it for me, was a block training program...worked awesome!)

(8.) Realized diet cycling was part of this. Did my first cut.

(9.) Biggest milestone of all: TRACKED MY DIET FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND USE IT TO THIS DAY. Ever since doing this my progress has skyrocketed beyond belief. I truly now understand that diet is more than training. I'll argue that to the death. I never realized my potential until I started to really appreciate and utilize the diet formulae to fuel my body to maximum efficiency. I'm a fucking machine now.

(10.) Incorporated weekly grip/GPP sessions (you know this is Gaz's doing..)

(11.) And my most recent milestone is that I've been thoroughly researching powerlifting and applying those principles to my powerlifting, which starts each session in my hybrid bodybuilding/powerlifting volume program. I'm making PRs literally every session.

I guess since I'm reflecting here it puts it all in perspective...briefly, at least. So far it's been a very brutal, expensive, intensive, time-consuming two years of training where I went from a unhealthy, unhappy, skinny, destroyed distance runner into a strong, healthy, happy, dedicated bodybuilder and now turning powerlifter. Hell, I'm even better at running for distances up to about 10km than I was at my running peak, yet I have a shit ton of muscle mass now. I love this sport, I love this healthy lifestyle, I love improving myself physically, emotionally, etc. It's a hell of a lot of work, but I wouldn't have it any other way. There's nothing more rewarding than dedicating everything in you for a cause and seeing nothing but positive results form that hard work. This is more than just a passtime, hobby, sport, whatever. It's my way of life, and I'll do anything to encourage others to reach their potential. Anyone can accomplish anything if they just give an honest effort.

So, thank you ironmagazine forums and all its amazing members who have helped me over the last near-two years now in working towards my life-long dreams. You all have changed my life so profoundly, and you all do it out of the goodness of your hearts. This board kicks ass!

Okay, enough of this sappy shit, I'm leaving work an hour early. I'm gonna go down some fucking potatoes, and go make a 5 rep PR on deadlifts!

well fair enough i am basing this routine on past expeiences, i used to train chest twice a week hard, harder then that above and got a big chest my best asset

i also based my rotuine around isloated exerises i only did 4 sets on bench rest where incline decline and flys and i probaly used to do 16 sets didnt stunt me

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Totally agree with what Yeksetm and Marat have said. Too much volume, probably not enough rest days, and need more deadlifting and less pressing.

I think i have pretty strong and big shoulders for my overall size, and literally all i do for them is 3-5 sets of military press a week, and some cleans. Obviously bench and rowing factors in there, but you get the picture.

Listen to these guys. Volume is great for putting on size, but excessive volume is a quick road to overtraining. Its not a terrible program, but some little tweaks would make it a hell of a lot better. The way i see it:

Drop the shoulders and arms days altogether, put one or two tricep exercises from arms day on chest/tri day, and add military press to that day aswell. Put one or two bicep exercises from arms day into back day. Do more deadlifts. Add a front squat to legs day as well as back squats.

Even this isn't fantastic, but its a compromise. This way you'll be a bit more balanced, and you'll have two extra rest days to eat and GROW.

If he does rows with an underhand grip and some shoulder width chins, he can throw out the bicep/tricep work altogether. Screw any arm work altogether. I'm lucky if I throw in 3 sets of hammer curls and tricep pushdowns a week. I jsut dont want to tear a bicep when using stones.
I'd also make deads a 5x5 and follow with good mornings at 3x8-10.
Power cleans and Push Presses combined will make him grow like fuck.
I'd also add in higher rep volume in legs.

Throw out any isolation work. Useless.

i still think 2 sets of overheard exercises added will be benifical, i suppose i cud change the one arm pressdown to a one arm reverse grip pressdown

in your opinion juggernaught, would my biceps grow more if i where to do 5 sets of bicep exerses on tuesday and a friday or if i do 8 or 10 sets on a friday?

biceps are a small muscle group and are meant to recover fast write? so i am wandering if i can train them twice for more growth or just the once but with more sets?

also what do u mean 5 x 5 with deads

Originally Posted by jmesherghi

biceps are a small muscle group and are meant to recover fast write? so i am wandering if i can train them twice for more growth or just the once but with more sets?

Holy shit, are you dense or just stupid? We just gave you a bunch of ideas and you dont listen. And learn how to spell motherfucker. and while I'm on the rag, when someone says how's your diet, list it. Dont fucking say it's "bangon". You sound retarded or 16 years old, and by the way you write and ask stupid questions, you most likely are both.

For maximum gains in muscle size and strength, the biceps and triceps require only a very small amount of direct stimulation! As they receive substantial stimulation during push/pull compounds.

5x5 means 5 set of 5 reps.
Example: My Deadlift
I do 5 sets of 5 reps @ 6rpm with a 2 min RI.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Holy shit, are you dense or just stupid? We just gave you a bunch of ideas and you dont listen. And learn how to spell motherfucker. and while I'm on the rag, when someone says how's your diet, list it. Dont fucking say it's "bangon". You sound retarded or 16 years old, and by the way you write and ask stupid questions, you most likely are both.

Thankyou

yes so u say however i went through a spell of 2 months where my tricep form was so bad ( everything else in terms of form was spot on) that i probaly didnt train it directly once) so if compound moves like bench presses shoulder presses realy work the triceps and tear muscle fibers then how come i didnt gain fuk all on triceps