Thread: New to bodybuilding. Am I doing it right?

just keep going you can do it

Originally Posted by AirWolf1

I started lifting weights over 6 months ago, and so far I've noticed some good results. However, I'm still looking for ways to improve. This is what I'm doing (home gym with dumbells + perfect pushup):

4x5 Squat Press
4x5 Bench Press or Standing Military Press depending on day of week.
2x16 or 2x20 Pull ups or advanced perfect Push Ups depending day of week.
1x5 Deadlift or 3x5 Clean and press depending on day of week.

I drink a scoop and a half of muscle milk mixed with rice milk post workout and another dose of MM later in the day (I don't do dairy because it upsets my acne). I'm a Martial Artist (Black Belt, Karate), and I'm looking to get very lean and very strong. But, I'm also looking to gain weight (I'm 17, about 5'9, and 138lbs). I have a very fast metabolism and am slim. It's my genetics (my dad was scrawny as a stick all his life, and so was most of the people on his side of the family). I want to gain about 10lbs of muscle. Getting fat shouldn't be too much of an issue, because I'm very active and I work out almost every day. Am I on the right track or should I change anything?

I'm very impressed with your choice of exercises! Nice!

Okay, first we'll deal with your training. For the most part that looks great. For starters, I'd ditch the press in the squats. If you're benching or military pressing then adding that press element to your squats will only detract from what could be a heavier squat. Use conventional back squats (the barbell across your shoulders), and squat until your hamstrings are parallel to the ground.

Bench and mil press is great.

Can you really do 2x20 pullups? You're not talking kipping pullups are you? If not I would starting adding some weight. It's good to incorporate higher rep training as well, but for basic compound lifts to augment your martial art training you'll want to train more for neural efficiency. Low reps at submaximal loads (as you're doing with the rest of your training) will accomplish this much better than high reps. I don't see a problem with using pushups as a plyometric, as long as they don't interfere with your performance on any other compounds.

The cleans look good. I'd increase the volume on the deadlifts, though. Why only one set? They're equally valuable to squats.

How many days a week do you do this? What days?

Originally Posted by Phineas

I'm very impressed with your choice of exercises! Nice!

Okay, first we'll deal with your training. For the most part that looks great. For starters, I'd ditch the press in the squats. If you're benching or military pressing then adding that press element to your squats will only detract from what could be a heavier squat. Use conventional back squats (the barbell across your shoulders), and squat until your hamstrings are parallel to the ground.

Bench and mil press is great

Okay, but I don't have a barbell. Only dumbbells.

Can you really do 2x20 pullups? You're not talking kipping pullups are you? If not I would starting adding some weight. It's good to incorporate higher rep training as well, but for basic compound lifts to augment your martial art training you'll want to train more for neural efficiency. Low reps at submaximal loads (as you're doing with the rest of your training) will accomplish this much better than high reps.

No, my max is like 14, on a good day. That's 2x20 advanced perfect pushups.

I don't see a problem with using pushups as a plyometric, as long as they don't interfere with your performance on any other compounds.

The cleans look good. I'd increase the volume on the deadlifts, though. Why only one set? They're equally valuable to squats.

Because I don't know if I'm doing them right, and they look really dangerous to be screwing up. I'll make an effort though, if they're as important as you say.

How many days a week do you do this? What days?

Workout A:

4x5 Squat Press
4x5 Mil Press
1x5 Deadlift
2X20 Perfect Pushup (adv.)

Workout B:

4x5 Squat press
4x5 Bench Press
3x5 Clean and press (which I'm not sure if I'm doing right. They feel awkward)
1x14 Chin ups (Palms toward face), 1x8 Pull Ups (palms away from face).
Ab Workout:

2x120 Weighted variable crunches
2x 15 Leg Lifts


Mon: Workout A
Tues: Ab workout
Wed: Workout B
Thurs: Ab Workout
Fri: Workout A
Sat: Ab workout
Sun: Rest.

Mon: Workout B
Tues: Ab workout
Wed: Workout A
... and so on.

Don't give me too much credit for the workout, it's a heavily modified version of something I saw on another site. I should've probably mentioned that I'm switching the advanced 20 perfect pushups to 10 weighted perfect pushups. What about nutrition, and what I'm eating? My choice of protein powder and when I'm drinking it? Should I be eating anything special? Should I get different stuff when I run out of MM? Do I need a certain vitamin (I'm just taking a One a Day Men's)?

Originally Posted by AirWolf1

Okay, but I don't have a barbell. Only dumbbells.

No, my max is like 14, on a good day. That's 2x20 advanced perfect pushups.

Because I don't know if I'm doing them right, and they look really dangerous to be screwing up. I'll make an effort though, if they're as important as you say.

Workout A:

4x5 Squat Press
4x5 Mil Press
1x5 Deadlift
2X20 Perfect Pushup (adv.)

Workout B:

4x5 Squat press
4x5 Bench Press
3x5 Clean and press (which I'm not sure if I'm doing right. They feel awkward)
1x14 Chin ups (Palms toward face), 1x8 Pull Ups (palms away from face).
Ab Workout:

2x120 Weighted variable crunches
2x 15 Leg Lifts


Mon: Workout A
Tues: Ab workout
Wed: Workout B
Thurs: Ab Workout
Fri: Workout A
Sat: Ab workout
Sun: Rest.

Mon: Workout B
Tues: Ab workout
Wed: Workout A
... and so on.

Don't give me too much credit for the workout, it's a heavily modified version of something I saw on another site. I should've probably mentioned that I'm switching the advanced 20 perfect pushups to 10 weighted perfect pushups. What about nutrition, and what I'm eating? My choice of protein powder and when I'm drinking it? Should I be eating anything special? Should I get different stuff when I run out of MM? Do I need a certain vitamin (I'm just taking a One a Day Men's)?

I want to work on your training first, then diet. One thing at a time.

(1.) If you have only DBs then use split squats, bulgarian split squats, lunges, or step ups. I'd go with conventional split squats. For low reps you'll get the best bang for your buck.

(2.) I'd ditch the pushups and replace with bent over rows.

(3.) Add another set or two of pullups/chinups.

(4.) Switch squat press to just squats.


(5) I'd also ditch the ab workout, and just perform some plans in your regular workout. You're already getting a significant ab workout with all the exercises you have, except maybe bench press. To add all that low-intensity ab work won't be very beneficial, and can easily tamper with your form on core-heavy lifts like squats and deads.

Can you post a video of your clean/press and deadlifts?

FYI -- this isn't a bodybuilding program; this is basically a powerlifting program. This is looking excellent. However, you need a periodization scheme. Periodization is essentially the planned variation/progression of your training to meet a particular goal. You can have microcycles consisiting of different volume/intensities/training styles, etc with individual goals leading up to a major goal at the end of a program. One of our mods, Gaz, wrote a great article on his site getlifting. Here's the link: getlifting.info » Linear Periodization

Also, a video of your squat would be a good idea too.

Nice work for sticking to the basics. Above all else, those lifts are the ones that have gotten people results consistently for decades.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but Phineas you mentioned a choice of split squats and bulgarian split squats.

What is the difference between these two?

Originally Posted by Teddy-G

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but Phineas you mentioned a choice of split squats and bulgarian split squats.

What is the difference between these two?

A regular split squat has the back leg on the floor and supporting some of the weight. A Bulgarian split squat has the back leg raised on a bench or platform and supporting almost none of the weight.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

A regular split squat has the back leg on the floor and supporting some of the weight. A Bulgarian split squat has the back leg raised on a bench or platform and supporting almost none of the weight.

Exactly.

Conventional Split Squat:



Bulgarian Split Squat:



In my opinion conventional split squats work better as accessory training to your back squat, as, though technically a unilateral lift, they train both legs simultaneously in a tricky position where you'll rely heavily on your hip flexors and adductors for stabilizing. The lift isn't so much a brute quad strength lift, but more for leg/hip coordination. You'll also find a great deal more exertion from the glutes. I was doing high-rep split squats the other night and for the first time managed to get my glutes to fail. It was the most bizarre experience. High-rep split squats, in conjunction with box squats, make good accessory training for your squat, particularly training the necessary muscles for helping you "get out of the hole". Since taking up split squats I noticed myself getting much better control of my inner thighs, hip flexors, and glutes. Before I relied more on brute quad strength (my quads are massive). I now have better full-leg explosiveness and coordination.

Bulgarians, on the other hand, I'd say are a little more inclined to hypertrophy work. They also have practical use, too, but I'd say more people use these for general leg conditioning and hypertrophy.

Just a warning, while conventional split squats will produce fatigue much like any squat variation, bulgarians have an odd reputation of being agonizing, brutal, painful, any word you can think of pretty much. No matter how much weight you're using, how many reps, whether you're fresh or pre-exhausted, it doesn't matter. For some reason bulgarians are probably the most painful exercise you'll ever use. I've done just about every exercise short of strongman training and bulgarians had me in the most agony.

Originally Posted by Phineas

Just a warning, while conventional split squats will produce fatigue much like any squat variation, bulgarians have an odd reputation of being agonizing, brutal, painful, any word you can think of pretty much. No matter how much weight you're using, how many reps, whether you're fresh or pre-exhausted, it doesn't matter. For some reason bulgarians are probably the most painful exercise you'll ever use. I've done just about every exercise short of strongman training and bulgarians had me in the most agony.

I can definitely vouch for this. Bulgarian Split Squats are some of the most painful exercises I've done in the weight room.

Originally Posted by Phineas

I want to work on your training first, then diet. One thing at a time.

(1.) If you have only DBs then use split squats, bulgarian split squats, lunges, or step ups. I'd go with conventional split squats. For low reps you'll get the best bang for your buck.

(2.) I'd ditch the pushups and replace with bent over rows.

:/ Really? I was under the impression pushups would improve my punching strength more than bent over rows.

(3.) Add another set or two of pullups/chinups.

(4.) Switch squat press to just squats.


(5) I'd also ditch the ab workout, and just perform some plans in your regular workout. You're already getting a significant ab workout with all the exercises you have, except maybe bench press. To add all that low-intensity ab work won't be very beneficial, and can easily tamper with your form on core-heavy lifts like squats and deads.

Really? My abs look really good right now, and I want them to stay that way. Will cutting down on the situps make them look less defined.

Can you post a video of your clean/press and deadlifts?

I'd really rather not.

FYI -- this isn't a bodybuilding program; this is basically a powerlifting program. This is looking excellent. However, you need a periodization scheme. Periodization is essentially the planned variation/progression of your training to meet a particular goal. You can have microcycles consisiting of different volume/intensities/training styles, etc with individual goals leading up to a major goal at the end of a program. One of our mods, Gaz, wrote a great article on his site getlifting. Here's the link:

Sounds great. Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by AirWolf1

:/ Really? I was under the impression pushups would improve my punching strength more than bent over rows.

Really? My abs look really good right now, and I want them to stay that way. Will cutting down on the situps make them look less defined.

I'd really rather not.

Sounds great. Thanks for the link.

I've never heard of pushups being good to train for punching strength. Besides, this training didn't seem to me as though it was supposed to help you with your sport's specific movements. It seemed geared to general strength and explosive power, which translates well into martial arts.

If you wanted fighting-specific strength movements then I would imagine things like attaching a cable to your wrist and doing weighted cable punches. That's a sport-specific exercise.

How "defined" your abs look depend on how low your bodyfat (BF) is. It's one of the biggest myths in the fitness industry that high rep exercises will "tone" muscles, that is make them appear more detailed, as oppose to low reps which, according to these people, makes flat, smooth mass. This is a total crock of shit.

To illustrate my point, here's a picture of a powerlifter named Dave Gulledge. I don't know if it was for training/competition reasons or just a myth-debunking experiment but he did a full-on cut to get his BF as low as a bodybuilder for a show (or close to). Note that powerlifters train very differently from bodybuilders. 99% of bodybuilders (arbitrary estimation, obviously, but just to say almost all of them) train in terms of muscle groups (e.g. "chest/back", "arms/shoulders", "bis, back") with an emphasis on isolation, machine work, and high reps for their so-called "sculpting" work. Powerlifters train with a greater emphasis on free-weight compounds, they train according to mechanics (i.e. pushing and pulling), and they use lifts specific to improving their performance typically at submaximal loads -- as their goal isn't hypertrophy (i.e. muscle development) but neural efficiency.

By the "toning" myth, powerlifts -- who do tend to be more hefty than bodybuilders -- will have flat, smooth muscles because they trained at low-reps for "basic mass". And, it's easy for poeple to use powerlifters as examples to defend this point because, since powerlifters tend to carry more BF than others, it's easy to say "well look at them, they have no 'definition'".

Take a look at this (note that in the first two pics he's carb depleted...scroll down for carb-loaded pics): Google Image Result for http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/1/.1122151094030.DSCN0115.JPG

He would have done little to no direct ab training. The thing is major compound exercises like squats and cleans train the abs considerably -- and with submaximal loads the isometric contraction the abs must achieve to help other core muscles stabilize the torso provides significantly more stimulus to those muscles than a shit ton of low-intensity situps.

Check out the avatar for our moderator Built. Her abs are extremely well developed, and she does little to no direct ab work. When she does, she keeps the volume low and increases the intensity by using weighted exercises.

I did a few weeks recently with some direct ab work just for the hell of it, but I never got into it. Direct "ab" work to me -- but really it's practical core work -- is planks. Hell, go do a set of 50 situps and see how your abs feel. Or, go grab two 45 lb plates and put them on your back in a plank position for 3 minutes (3:05 with 90 lbs plus my BW of 195 is my PR) and see how your abs feel after that.

Originally Posted by nasher27

I can definitely vouch for this. Bulgarian Split Squats are some of the most painful exercises I've done in the weight room.

I 2nd that motion!!! Did Bulgarian Split Squats for the first time last week after my 5x5 squats and I have never had such a case of DOMS in my legs and ass like I have now.

Originally Posted by Phineas

I've never heard of pushups being good to train for punching strength.

Even though most power behind a punch comes from rotation of the torso push ups are good for punching strength. Boxers do them alot for a reson but the best way is to do them as explosively as possible.

a friend mentioned doing inverted-grip bench press( palms facing you and hand placement the same as regular bench grip). He mentioned what I had already figured.....GO LIGHT WEIGHT 135LBS OR SOMETHING. Heard and read the story on ESPN about the Florida State Football Player crushing his throat doing this excercise when the barbell rolled out his hands. My buddy said that this excercise will build "thickness" in the upper chest. That is a problem area for me, but I be damned if I drop 135lbs on my throat! Figured using a spotter for the entire range of motion is best, just in case and hand straps. Any opinions on this excercise and its benefits? Can i please get an answer on this question? Thinking smith-machine is the way to go on this.

Originally Posted by Gissurjon

Even though most power behind a punch comes from rotation of the torso push ups are good for punching strength. Boxers do them alot for a reson but the best way is to do them as explosively as possible.

No doubt pushups will develop strength in the muscles involved in punching, but the benefit would be more general conditioning. Use them as plyometric accessory work, maybe on a GPP weekly session. As for the primary strength/neural efficiency routine, I wouldn't think they're as practical for a fighter.

For instance, soccer plays use mechanic-specifc exercises like hip abduction/adduction with cables attached to their ankles, as this mimics the movements in their sport. Pushups don't mimic punches. I can see something like a corner press with a twist but performed explosively being a better option for a fighter. It will train them to explode in the punching motion more explosively, as there's resistance against their "punch" in the exercise.

Originally Posted by midwest216

a friend mentioned doing inverted-grip bench press( palms facing you and hand placement the same as regular bench grip). He mentioned what I had already figured.....GO LIGHT WEIGHT 135LBS OR SOMETHING. Heard and read the story on ESPN about the Florida State Football Player crushing his throat doing this excercise when the barbell rolled out his hands. My buddy said that this excercise will build "thickness" in the upper chest. That is a problem area for me, but I be damned if I drop 135lbs on my throat! Figured using a spotter for the entire range of motion is best, just in case and hand straps. Any opinions on this excercise and its benefits? Can i please get an answer on this question? Thinking smith-machine is the way to go on this.

You can't develop a certain part of the chest through use of certain exercise.

Technically there is an upper chest muscle, but it works in conjuction with the other pec muscle groups. Reverse grip might shift a slight bit more emphasis to the triceps, but otherwise you're just making it more awkward to handle the barbell.

Also, even though "thickness" or "mass" comes with diet, going "light" on an exercise will make it less likely to produce mass. Rather, you'd develop more muscle endurance, which isn't the best way to tell your body it needs to be massive.

Diet, diet, diet!

thanks phineas and victor, I've posted this question for a week or more without an answer, thank you guys for getting back at me. Think I'll use my head and not try this excercise.

Originally Posted by midwest216

thanks phineas and victor, I've posted this question for a week or more without an answer, thank you guys for getting back at me. Think I'll use my head and not try this excercise.

I usually suggest diet over specific exercises for muscle growth, but if you're looking for chest development I'd suggest Dead Press: getlifting.info » Five Steps Towards a Bigger Bench (see bench tip #1).

Dead Press has revolutionized the way I push weights. Not only has it increased my strength/power, it's given me a much better mind-body connection with my pushing muscles. You really feel the mechanics of upper pushing with Dead Press.

Give it a go. A suggestion, though -- if you do it, do it right. Set the safety bars as low as possible. When I do Dead Press the barbell just skims my chest. Imagine benching dead weight from that depth! It's sexy agony. Ya, that's right...sexy agony.

I would just avoid reverse-grip bench press altogether. I've heard of some people using it for tricep strength, but there are so many other good exercises for tricep strength that I don't see why you'd need to do reverse-grip presses. They're fairly dangerous and they can definitely mess up your pressing form if you do them a lot.

Floor press is a good variation for chest strength and strengthening the middle of the bench press.