Thread: Replacing rows with pull-ups

If you're doing deadlifting and chinups I think you're fine.

Alternatives could be power cleans or heavy rack pulls from about the knee.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I love pull-ups, and although I like rows I would definitely perfer to do pull-ups instead. Would this severly unbalance my routine? If yes, is there another exercise I could do to compensate for the lack of rows?

Pull-ups are a great exercise. Since my low back injury, I've been doing more t-bar rows. Usually start with Pull-ups, do a few t-bars, and finish with cable rows. Mostly like how the cable rows stretch out my lower back. Oh, and a couple good-mornings to warm-up. I know-sounds like a lot, but I'm able to finish in just over 1/2 hour. I like to do some bicep isolation work after I finish training back. In and out of the gym in an hour, tops. So, I guess I'm saying you can do both if you like.

Originally Posted by MDR

Pull-ups are a great exercise. Since my low back injury, I've been doing more t-bar rows. Usually start with Pull-ups, do a few t-bars, and finish with cable rows. Mostly like how the cable rows stretch out my lower back. Oh, and a couple good-mornings to warm-up. I know-sounds like a lot, but I'm able to finish in just over 1/2 hour. I like to do some bicep isolation work after I finish training back. In and out of the gym in an hour, tops. So, I guess I'm saying you can do both if you like.

I typically do both but on different days. So I want to replace the rows with an extra day of pull-ups. I do deads and good mornings/or GHR's on a different day so I don't think my lower back will miss the rows that much.

Originally Posted by gtbmed

Alternatives could be power cleans or heavy rack pulls from about the knee.

I was thinking of adding a couple of sets of cleans, because I feel my traps might need a little extra from the lack of rows.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I typically do both but on different days. So I want to replace the rows with an extra day of pull-ups. I do deads and good mornings/or GHR's on a different day so I don't think my lower back will miss the rows that much.

Sounds like you are doing a lot of good work for your back. I like to split my lower body and do squats on one day and deadlifts on another. Usually do conventional, high bars and fronts on squat days, and a variety of pulling exercises on deadlift days. I like to change things up every so often, but I like to start off with the main lifts first, when I'm fresh. Always good to switch things around from time to time. Cleans are a fantastic exercise.

Originally Posted by MDR

Sounds like you are doing a lot of good work for your back. I like to split my lower body and do squats on one day and deadlifts on another. Usually do conventional, high bars and fronts on squat days, and a variety of pulling exercises on deadlift days. I like to change things up every so often, but I like to start off with the main lifts first, when I'm fresh. Always good to switch things around from time to time. Cleans are a fantastic exercise.

I also split my lower body routine as well, easily the best advice i've picked up from this forum I've actually never done cleans and really wanted to work them into one of my routines. Now my next routine will have cleans and two days of pull-ups

face pulls 4 u

Why not just do a set of rows somewhere in your back routine? Why is this even a question?

Originally Posted by HeavyBomber

Why not just do a set of rows somewhere in your back routine? Why is this even a question?

It's a question because I perfer pull-ups over rows, and I was wondering if I replaced the rows with extra pull-ups would there be any imbalance created.

Originally Posted by Hoglander

face pulls 4 u

Somewhat funny.

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Somewhat funny.

Funny, is you thinking it's funny. This is funny as well.... Do shrugs at the top of your deads. HAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by Hoglander

face pulls 4 u

The interesting thing about face pulls is the many angles you can use. You can stand and pull the cable directly, or reach up and use an upward angle. At first, I didn't think it looked like much of an exercise, but they work pretty well. Even did a variation using rotation when I was rehabbing my shoulder a few years back.

The only problem with them is that at some point you might have to get inventive. To increase the weight you may have to secure your body or have someone hold you. I'm not into the holding thing because I can't find right guy or get two pretty girls. I have a rope in my gym bag I tie to the machine behind me. Boy, do I get some strange looks.

Originally Posted by Hoglander

The only problem with them is that at some point you might have to get inventive. To increase the weight you may have to secure your body or have someone hold you. I'm not into the holding thing because I can't find right guy or get two pretty girls. I have a rope in my gym bag I tie to the machine behind me. Boy, do I get some strange looks.

I always got a bit more stability from my knees, if the machine adjusts. Not quite as effective as doing them standing, though. Know what you mean about someone holding you. Never seen anyone tie themselves to the machine behind them, but it sounds pretty effective. Must be quite a sight.

Originally Posted by Hoglander

Funny, is you thinking it's funny. This is funny as well.... Do shrugs at the top of your deads. HAHAHAHA

Oh you were actually serious My bad. I want to replace my row day with an extra pull-up day. What do you think will be lacking in my back routine by doing this? How would doing face pulls fix what's lacking?

The current fashion is to talk about movements not body parts. Wanting to put your question in the simplest possible terms with that being said...

Your back is a line(like in math). You move weight with your hands at an angle in a line in relation to your back.

What is lacking is the perpendicular angle. You might want something that is somewhere near that middle 90 degree angle in terms of a movement. Face pulls are a good example, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Hoglander

The current fashion is to talk about movements not body parts. Wanting to put your question in the simplest possible terms with that being said...

Your back is a line(like in math). You move weight with your hands at an angle in a line in relation to your back.

What is lacking is the perpendicular angle. You might want something that is somewhere near that middle 90 degree angle in terms of a movement. Face pulls for example, IMHO.

Well i'm not really feeling fashionable. So I would really like to talk in terms of muscles. I'm going to be hitting two hard sessions of pull-ups per week and I don't want to add any direct back work on top of it. If I knew what muscle(s) that rows hit and pull-ups don't then I could just add an accesory exercise to compensate for that. Just for reference, I work out at home and all I have is free weights.

Good luck

Originally Posted by Hoglander

Good luck

Thanks

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I love pull-ups, and although I like rows I would definitely perfer to do pull-ups instead. Would this severly unbalance my routine? If yes, is there another exercise I could do to compensate for the lack of rows?

Pull ups and Dips are the most important compound exercises ever in my opinion...if your bw is not heavy enough for you, add weights while doing them ....

and I think you should be balancing your Horizontal Movements (DB/BB Rows..ETC) and Vertical Movements (Pull ups/Pull downs..etc)

Would the face pull be a majority shoulder or back movement?

Back = Pull

Front Shoulders= Push

Rear Shoulders = Pull

Originally Posted by Life

Would the face pull be a majority shoulder or back movement?

I would say they're more of an upper back lift, but there's a lot of delt and even bicep involvement.

I'm probably the only person on the board who considers bent-over rows superior to pullups.

I might catch some heat for this but........

Deadlifts. We all know (most of us anyways) that they are a lower pull. However, they involve much of the back and other muscle groups as well. When I think compounds, I think about how to capitalize on working every muscle involved to the maximum extent. Well, while lowering the BB along your legs, go slow enough to hardly make a sound as the weights touch the floor. Briefly, let go of the bar, re-grip, pull, and repeat. Along with the extended TUT of the hams and glutes, all muscles of my back (lats, traps, midlle, lower) get hit hard and I have never been as exhausted or sore as they are by deadlifting this way. Doing deads this way, by far, exceeds lowering the weights quickly and bouncing back up. It is comparable to, say, the box squat or dead press.

Anyways, this may be how everyone does it and I am just a jack-off.

Since I workout at home with very limited space, I dont have any way to do rows at all. So I just substitue those with T Bar rows, bent over rows, 1 arm rows bent over rows, or deadlifts. I always start my first set with wide grip pull ups (or about shoulder width apart and palms facing away). Then I will either do bent over rows, 1 arm bent over rows, T-Bar rows, or Deadlifts. I change the rotation each week but I always start with pull ups and I focus on the back. I know deadlifts focus a lot on legs but I find that if I get a wide grip with the deadlifts it works the back real well too.

T Bar rows are very easy to make at home. Just set one end of a barbell on the floor against the wall. Then put the weight on the other end. Then you can use a thick rope (or tricep pull down rope) lift the weights. Killer workout for the back and forearms.

Originally Posted by rockhardly

I might catch some heat for this but........

Deadlifts. We all know (most of us anyways) that they are a lower pull. However, they involve much of the back and other muscle groups as well. When I think compounds, I think about how to capitalize on working every muscle involved to the maximum extent. Well, while lowering the BB along your legs, go slow enough to hardly make a sound as the weights touch the floor. Briefly, let go of the bar, re-grip, pull, and repeat. Along with the extended TUT of the hams and glutes, all muscles of my back (lats, traps, midlle, lower) get hit hard and I have never been as exhausted or sore as they are by deadlifting this way. Doing deads this way, by far, exceeds lowering the weights quickly and bouncing back up. It is comparable to, say, the box squat or dead press.

Anyways, this may be how everyone does it and I am just a jack-off.

Ideally, in a deadlift you're supposed to settle the weight before lifting again. Though most people bounce (I'm guilty of this at times) you're supposed to lift the bar from a dead stop -- hence the name deadlift, as in deadweight.

And yes, deadlifts work the back muscles significantly. The entire posterior chain is worked a great deal. This is why so many people classify them as back work.

I used to be a major advocate in stressing that deadlifts are leg training and not back. While it may be true that they're a ham/glute (hip) dominant lift, really all that matters is people are doing them, and doing them properly. Anyone who's deadlifting (and squatting as well, I would presume) is seriously lightyears ahead of most fools we see in our gyms doing their P90X-inspired kickbacks while balancing one-legged on swiss balls, thinking they're on the cutting edge of a fitness revolution by blending a bunch of fancy weight lifting terminology into one dangerous, awkward, unproductive monkey spasm of an exercise.

I mean seriously people, just put away the DVDs, bend over, and pick up a barbell.

^ I agree if you are doing deadlifts please do NOT bounce the weight. Lower it slowly to the floor then lift heavy on the way up. Always control it. VERY important.
I posted a video a while back on how NOT to do a deadlift. Well actually it was a rack pull but some idiot was just bouncing the heck out of the weights. This is how NOT to do rack pulls or deadlifts.
how not to 405 rack pulls video by tylercarlson89 - Photobucket