Arm day?

Mace · 09-26-2002, 07:39 PM

I've always trained biceps after upper back and triceps after chest. Some folks I know have an "arm day" (similar to the more common "leg day") where thay do both muscle groups together. What's your oppinion?

**Mudge** · 09-26-2002, 07:49 PM

I dont see the need, arms are probably my best bodypart and I do it like you do aka like "everyone" else does.

Scotty the Body · 09-26-2002, 08:04 PM

My arms started to really grow once I stoped doing them on they're own day and even skipped them the odd week.

They get so much work from back and chest that I don't think people give them enough recovery time so they never get a chance to fully heal before gettin torn apart.

Pitboss · 09-27-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
My arms started to really grow once I stoped doing them on they're own day and even skipped them the odd week.

They get so much work from back and chest that I don't think people give them enough recovery time so they never get a chance to fully heal before gettin torn apart.

Ditto here.

I've preached thsi for years and will continue to do so. Not that I'm anything special to look at but considering that I only do on average 6 sets for triceps and biceps I get the most comments on my arms.

Scotty the Body · 09-27-2002, 10:21 AM

Same here PB, I was worried at first about cutting back from 9 down to 6 but I'm seeing better growth and strength from less work. Gotta love that.

**Prince** · 09-27-2002, 11:20 AM

I found that when I gave arms their own work-out day they got over-trained due to the work they get on chest and back day.

I do chest/bi's & back/tri's currently.

Training God · 09-27-2002, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mace
I've always trained biceps after upper back and triceps after chest. Some folks I know have an "arm day" (similar to the more common "leg day") where thay do both muscle groups together. What's your oppinion?

*** It depends, if you want strong arms give them their own day, otherwise for hypertrophy purposes both methods work well. It all depends on how you use exercise variables.

Max. Q · 09-27-2002, 03:34 PM

Yep, me too!! I stopped giving my arms their own work-out day and cut down the number of sets. Better strength and size gains. Not only that, my back and chest work-outs improved as well. I guess it's cause my arms were recovering better and able to help out with the back and chest work-outs. Does that make sense??

Max. Q · 09-27-2002, 03:42 PM

Mace, I just noticed your signature. Not to change the subject of the post but I remember hearing about someone on the way to the gym getting pulled over with a zip-lock bag of creatine on the passenger seat. To make a long story short, it took another police officer who used creatine to confirm that's what it was. LOL.

**Prince** · 09-27-2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PowermanDL
*** It depends, if you want strong arms give them their own day...

So, if you work your arms with back and chest they will not get strong?

miamiguns · 09-27-2002, 06:26 PM

Mondays:Biceps and then back.
Tuesdays:Triceps and then chest.
Wednesday:Legs/calves/cardio
Thursday:Shoulders/Traps
Friday:Cardio
Saturday:Legs/calves
Sunday:Cardio

I've lost 7 pounds of fat in 8 weeks. Now I need a change but am not sure what needs changing.

Sups I'm using are 100% Whey and Glutomine. Thats all I'm willing to take right now.

Pitboss · 09-27-2002, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by miamiguns
Mondays:Biceps and then back.
Tuesdays:Triceps and then chest.
Wednesday:Legs/calves/cardio
Thursday:Shoulders/Traps
Friday:Cardio
Saturday:Legs/calves
Sunday:Cardio

I've lost 7 pounds of fat in 8 weeks. Now I need a change but am not sure what needs changing.

Sups I'm using are 100% Whey and Glutomine. Thats all I'm willing to take right now.

Change to back then biceps and Chest and then triceps. You should always work the larger muscle group first.

And why are you doing legs twice a week?? Won't grow if they can't rest!

miamiguns · 09-27-2002, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pitboss

Change to back then biceps and Chest and then triceps. You should always work the larger muscle group first.

And why are you doing legs twice a week?? Won't grow if they can't rest!

I wanted to concentrate on more arm intensity to promote growth. Now i think I'll start to concentrate on the lats and chest as you suggested.

My Wednesday leg work out is fixed med/high rep low weight to coincide with my cardio. Saturday is my big weight leg workout.
Too much? My legs are my weak spot right now.

Corri · 09-28-2002, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
I do chest/bi's & back/tri's currently.

I've heard of this kind of routine before but never understood the logic behind it.

I tried it once and found that my bis would end up being to sore for back days and the same would happen with tris depending on which workout came first in the week.

How does it work for you man? I'm curious..

Scotty the Body · 09-28-2002, 10:46 AM

Corri, the idea behind Back/tri's and Chest/bi's is that you get one day where the bi's and tri's get a light (they get worked indirectly) and then one day with a heavy actual workout.

And like you said, you need to have at least 3-4 days of rest between back and chest so your arms have had a chance to recover.

Training God · 09-28-2002, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince

So, if you work your arms with back and chest they will not get strong?

*** Not as strong as if you gave them your own day or you placed arms before your back or any other muscle group you work on that day.

Scotty the Body · 09-28-2002, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PowermanDL

*** Not as strong as if you gave them your own day or you placed arms before your back or any other muscle group you work on that day.

With strength, I'd agree but I wonder if the same could be said about size?

**Prince** · 09-28-2002, 01:39 PM

okay, that may be true for strength, but not for size, and I do not lift weights for strength, I train to gain size.

Mace · 09-28-2002, 03:02 PM

So, for SIZE I should keep things as they are:
Back / Bi's
Chest / Tri's

Thanks, guys.

Robboe · 09-28-2002, 04:55 PM

When i shift back into gaining mode i'm gonna give delts/bis/tris their own day (and actually do some bicep work regularly).

I'm also gonna try and indirectly hit larger muscles when doing so, too.

ie curl grip chins for bicep work, CGBP for tris etc...

But i'm gonna stop shy of failure on all sets. Even sets for the larger parts at the other end of the week.

I'm gonna use this split:

Sunday: thighs (quads, hams)
Monday: delts/arms

Thursday: back/calves
Friday: chest/abs

Kinda like a HST methodology, but not quite. Volume will still be low/moderate.

6 sets for back, chest, quads (with 1-3 extra sets for hams, depending on what exercises i chose for quads). 4-5 sets for delts, 3-4 for tris, 1-3 for bis.

Should be interesting.

Josh · 09-28-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
okay, that may be true for strength, but not for size, and I do not lift weights for strength, I train to gain size.

I read somewhere once that more strength means more size. Not correct? I think the reason is more strength comes from continuously lifting heavier weight, which breaks more and more muscle fibers where the repairs will make muscle bigger (and stronger) which leads to bigger size. Not correct?

- Josh

Robboe · 09-28-2002, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh

I read somewhere once that more strength means more size. Not correct?

Generally, a bigger muscle is usually a stronger one, yes. But as far as strength gains are concerned, there's a lot more factors involved.

Quote:

I think the reason is more strength comes from continuously lifting heavier weight, which breaks more and more muscle fibers where the repairs will make muscle bigger (and stronger) which leads to bigger size. Not correct?

- Josh

Yes, it's called progressive overload.

But you can't just go into training the same muscles everyday trying to lift more and expect them to grow. Not for any appreciable amount of time anyway. It's basically overtraining.

Progressive overload each week, however, is a different story....

**Prince** · 09-28-2002, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh
I read somewhere once that more strength means more size. Not correct? I think the reason is more strength comes from continuously lifting heavier weight, which breaks more and more muscle fibers where the repairs will make muscle bigger (and stronger) which leads to bigger size. Not correct?

- Josh

typically a larger muscle is a stronger one.....but, does a powerlifter look like a bodybuilder? and which one is stronger?

Mace · 09-28-2002, 06:28 PM

Hmmm... I guess it all depends on your goals. Power lifters tend to be stronger, but bodybuilders are much nicer to look at

.

**Prince** · 09-28-2002, 07:07 PM

The thing the matters most is not whether or not you should work your arms with chest and back, it's that you do not overtrain arms.

The biceps and triceps are a relatively small muscle group that get used during all pushing and pulling exercises. So, typically when a "natural" bodybuilder is trying to gain mass they utilize compound movements.

Josh · 09-29-2002, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Generally, a bigger muscle is usually a stronger one, yes.

Quote:

typically a larger muscle is a stronger one.....

Quote:

*** Not as strong as if you gave them your own day or you placed arms before your back or any other muscle group you work on that day.

So, bigger muscle => stronger muscle (generally), but is the reverse (generally) true, stronger muscle => bigger muscle?

If true, could one aim to strengthen muscle in order to get bigger muscle? I ask this because as PowermanDL says, giving bis and tris their own day can strengthen them. In my effort to build my chest and back, sometimes I got advises that maybe my tris and bis are holding these muscles back, so I thought maybe I should strengthen these arm muscles first so that I can push and pull more powerfully and grow my chest and back. So if giving arms their own day would help this, I would try it.

- Josh

09-26-2002, 07:39 PM	#1
Mace Hungry. Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rochester, NY USA Posts: 66	Arm day? I've always trained biceps after upper back and triceps after chest. Some folks I know have an "arm day" (similar to the more common "leg day") where thay do both muscle groups together. What's your oppinion?
	Steak. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

09-26-2002, 07:49 PM	#2
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,027 Photos: 1	I dont see the need, arms are probably my best bodypart and I do it like you do aka like "everyone" else does.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

09-26-2002, 08:04 PM	#3
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	My arms started to really grow once I stoped doing them on they're own day and even skipped them the odd week. They get so much work from back and chest that I don't think people give them enough recovery time so they never get a chance to fully heal before gettin torn apart.
	Cool

09-27-2002, 10:21 AM	#5
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Same here PB, I was worried at first about cutting back from 9 down to 6 but I'm seeing better growth and strength from less work. Gotta love that.
	Cool

09-27-2002, 11:20 AM	#6
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	I found that when I gave arms their own work-out day they got over-trained due to the work they get on chest and back day. I do chest/bi's & back/tri's currently.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

09-27-2002, 03:34 PM	#8
Max. Q Capricorn Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 630	Yep, me too!! I stopped giving my arms their own work-out day and cut down the number of sets. Better strength and size gains. Not only that, my back and chest work-outs improved as well. I guess it's cause my arms were recovering better and able to help out with the back and chest work-outs. Does that make sense??
	MAX. Q by Howard Balzer "Roughly one minute after the space shuttle launches, it must withstand a condition of extreme force known as Max Q. Mission success demands that all systems perform at the highest level. In life, Max Q demands the same commitment to success. It requires choosing greatness, personally as well as professionally. It depends on balance, passion and courage and the wisdom gained from adversity. It is an outcome as well as an attitude."

09-27-2002, 03:42 PM	#9
Max. Q Capricorn Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 630	Mace, I just noticed your signature. Not to change the subject of the post but I remember hearing about someone on the way to the gym getting pulled over with a zip-lock bag of creatine on the passenger seat. To make a long story short, it took another police officer who used creatine to confirm that's what it was. LOL.
	MAX. Q by Howard Balzer "Roughly one minute after the space shuttle launches, it must withstand a condition of extreme force known as Max Q. Mission success demands that all systems perform at the highest level. In life, Max Q demands the same commitment to success. It requires choosing greatness, personally as well as professionally. It depends on balance, passion and courage and the wisdom gained from adversity. It is an outcome as well as an attitude."

09-27-2002, 06:26 PM	#11
miamiguns Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 133	Mondays:Biceps and then back. Tuesdays:Triceps and then chest. Wednesday:Legs/calves/cardio Thursday:Shoulders/Traps Friday:Cardio Saturday:Legs/calves Sunday:Cardio I've lost 7 pounds of fat in 8 weeks. Now I need a change but am not sure what needs changing. Sups I'm using are 100% Whey and Glutomine. Thats all I'm willing to take right now.

09-28-2002, 10:46 AM	#15
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Corri, the idea behind Back/tri's and Chest/bi's is that you get one day where the bi's and tri's get a light (they get worked indirectly) and then one day with a heavy actual workout. And like you said, you need to have at least 3-4 days of rest between back and chest so your arms have had a chance to recover.
	Cool

09-28-2002, 01:39 PM	#18
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	okay, that may be true for strength, but not for size, and I do not lift weights for strength, I train to gain size.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

09-28-2002, 03:02 PM	#19
Mace Hungry. Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rochester, NY USA Posts: 66	So, for SIZE I should keep things as they are: Back / Bi's Chest / Tri's Thanks, guys.
	Steak. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

09-28-2002, 04:55 PM	#20
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	When i shift back into gaining mode i'm gonna give delts/bis/tris their own day (and actually do some bicep work regularly). I'm also gonna try and indirectly hit larger muscles when doing so, too. ie curl grip chins for bicep work, CGBP for tris etc... But i'm gonna stop shy of failure on all sets. Even sets for the larger parts at the other end of the week. I'm gonna use this split: Sunday: thighs (quads, hams) Monday: delts/arms Thursday: back/calves Friday: chest/abs Kinda like a HST methodology, but not quite. Volume will still be low/moderate. 6 sets for back, chest, quads (with 1-3 extra sets for hams, depending on what exercises i chose for quads). 4-5 sets for delts, 3-4 for tris, 1-3 for bis. Should be interesting.
	Being held down by The Man

09-28-2002, 06:28 PM	#24
Mace Hungry. Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rochester, NY USA Posts: 66	Hmmm... I guess it all depends on your goals. Power lifters tend to be stronger, but bodybuilders are much nicer to look at .
	Steak. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

09-28-2002, 07:07 PM	#25
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	The thing the matters most is not whether or not you should work your arms with chest and back, it's that you do not overtrain arms. The biceps and triceps are a relatively small muscle group that get used during all pushing and pulling exercises. So, typically when a "natural" bodybuilder is trying to gain mass they utilize compound movements.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.