Thread: training shoulders really necessary?

yes . . .unless you want the puny shoulders of a 12 year old girl

so why is the number one injury amongst weightlifters the shoulder?

I’m in the same boat as you. I always have to be careful with both rotator cuffs. What works best for me is busting my ass on compound exercises earlier in the week, then, depending how my shoulders feel dictates how hard I work them out. I’m definitely a big fan of listening to my body. Sometimes spending less time on my shoulders for a couple weeks pays off in the long run. But, in short, to achieve that proportioned look, compound exercises only is not enough for my shoulders. The only time I have no shoulder issues is when I hit the gear. If anyone else has any suggestions I’d love to hear it since increasing the size of my shoulders is one of my goals.

I do shoulders about once every two weeks. Mine get hit so hard when I bench. They are always sore after that. I only bench every two weeks also. So I switch between flat BB bench and standing military press.

Originally Posted by damus

So is direct training really necassary?

Depends on your current conditioning. If you're small everywhere, you can probably get by with bench and military pressing. Eventually, your shoulders will stop responding to the major lifts and you'll need to get some direct work in.

Originally Posted by damus

so why is the number one injury amongst weightlifters the shoulder?

probably because people are lifting too heavy, without appropriate warm up or progression in weights . .

Personally, I respond a lot better to 8-12 rep range . . could be age related, but Im over the heavy shit.

Originally Posted by damus

so why is the number one injury amongst weightlifters the shoulder?

Poor form. Also behind the neck press movements which put the shoulder joint in a position of potential injury.

If i stopped training shoulders my bench and overall upper body would suffer. I like doing Reverse flies and cable scarecrows, but I haven't done front raises and lateral raises in a while. Shoulders are really easy to overtrain for me.

What exercises do you guys find are effective for shoulder development without overdoing it?

If I had to chose one only: military press. A second: upright rows

Originally Posted by damus

so why is the number one injury amongst weightlifters the shoulder?

Muscular imbalance due to overemphasis of pressing movements and underemphasis of pulling movements - it's the same reason most people walk around with terrible posture.

Originally Posted by theCaptn'

If I had to chose one only: military press. A second: upright rows

Seriously? Upright rows? Those are murder on my RC impingement. I get way better bang-for-buck with this combo: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Cleans and Oly bar corner presses are the cornerstones of my shoulder work.

Originally Posted by Built

Seriously? Upright rows? Those are murder on my RC impingement. I get way better bang-for-buck with this combo: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Cleans and Oly bar corner presses are the cornerstones of my shoulder work.

. . UR Rows were always good to me . . I saw shrugs as a waste of time for building mass (and often seen done with horrible, cartilage-crunching form) . . but I aint arguing on cleans . . they are a cardio WO to boot . . few sets of those and Im sweating and gasping for O2

Thanks for the reminder!

Bad form, weak tendons + using too much weight and momentum = the cause of a lot of shoulder issues.

2 shoulder surgerys in 6 years and it had nothing to do with working my shoulders, it had everything to do with NOT working my shoulders. Got into my heavy pre-competition bench routine and dropped my shoulder work. Becouse of this the Labram(stabalizer of the shoulder) got weak and as soon as I got to 500lb on the bench the rotator tendons could no longer compensate for my weak labram. Most shoulder injuries occur while benching. Behind the neck presses are a bad idea, consentrate on one good press movement and work alot of supportive type excersises, rear delts, rotator type stuff....

Shoulders are a MUST!!!!

Originally Posted by theCaptn'

yes . . .unless you want the puny shoulders of a 12 year old girl

I read in men's health that Prepubescent school girl shoulders were all the rage in milan this winter.

Originally Posted by theCaptn'

I saw shrugs as a waste of time for building mass (and often seen done with horrible, cartilage-crunching form).

Oh, I know, right? With the "crank-arm" rotation at the top? <shudders>

Originally Posted by Built

Seriously? Upright rows? Those are murder on my RC impingement. I get way better bang-for-buck with this combo: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Cleans and Oly bar corner presses are the cornerstones of my shoulder work.

I can't do upright rows at all, but I've had major impingement problems. The "older" crowd at my gym (over 40) avoids them like the plague.

UR rows are one of those "works for some, not for all" kinda movements. Between-bench dips is another. Great movement if you can do 'em, but have the potential to cause all kinds of problems if you've got shoulder tendinopathies.

Originally Posted by Built

UR rows are one of those "works for some, not for all" kinda movements. Between-bench dips is another. Great movement if you can do 'em, but have the potential to cause all kinds of problems if you've got shoulder tendinopathies.

I've had all kinds of shoulder issues. Torn rotator cuff from baseball in H.S. All sorts of lifting issues since. My last training partner had both shoulders surgically repaired twice, along with both knees. We were like a match made in heaven. Avoided all the same exercises, but still dumb enough to do all the compound movements. Gotta find another training partner with a similar injury history. Only way to go.

Funny. I have never injured my shoulders doing shoulder work, and I could military press over 200lbs for reps. It was while working my chest that I always seemed to fuck my shoulders up... well that and rugby.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Funny. I have never injured my shoulders doing shoulder work, and I could military press over 200lbs for reps. It was while working my chest that I always seemed to fuck my shoulders up... well that and rugby.

I've messed up my shoulder doing bench, too. Football probably didn't help much, either. Shoulders and knees seem to be my problem areas, along with my back now. Pretty soon it's gonna be shorter to list the non-problem areas. Rugby always looked like fun.

Originally Posted by MDR

I've messed up my shoulder doing bench, too. Football probably didn't help much, either. Shoulders and knees seem to be my problem areas, along with my back now. Pretty soon it's gonna be shorter to list the non-problem areas. Rugby always looked like fun.

Yeah, its a blast until you get hit by some crazy fucker that doesn't care if they get injured. Imagine a full speed football type collision with zero protection. We lost at least two players for the season every game. Season started with about 30 people and ended up with barely enough to play. Many teams had to forfeit because they didn't have enough players by late season.

I quit after almost separating my shoulder. My body was my livelihood at the time. You can't move furniture if you can't lift your hand over your head for almost 3 weeks.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Yeah, its a blast until you get hit by some crazy fucker that doesn't care if they get injured. Imagine a full speed football type collision with zero protection. We lost at least two players for the season every game. Season started with about 30 people and ended up with barely enough to play. Many teams had to forfeit because they didn't have enough players by late season.

I quit after almost separating my shoulder. My body was my livelihood at the time. You can't move furniture if you can't lift your hand over your head for almost 3 weeks.

Damn. Now it really sounds like fun. Hell, I'm just an English Teacher. As long as I can run my mouth I'm ok. After I blew a couple discs in my lower back, some of my more astute students picked up on the fact that I couldn't stand up straight. Or walk much.

I had rotator cuff surgery two years ago, had three tears, I'm pretty sure it was from bench pressing.

Like I said, balance your pressing/pulling movements and this won't be a huge problem. Rotator cuff work is also essential to healthy shoulders.

Originally Posted by Built

UR rows are one of those "works for some, not for all" kinda movements. Between-bench dips is another. Great movement if you can do 'em, but have the potential to cause all kinds of problems if you've got shoulder tendinopathies.

Upright rows just fuck up my shoulders to no end. So I don't even bother with them.