Thread: Deadlift

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

What's the best body part to incorporate deadlifts with? I'd imagine back day but since it's a full body workout, seems like almost any day would work. I think since squats are done on leg day, that may be a lot for a leg workout.

I've always had to work around a back injury so I've avoided deadlifts for a long time. I'm going to try light weight deads and see how my back feels. But I think to step up my game and to take my training to the next level, I need some deads, even at light weight, in my workouts. Thx!

If you are going light, you can probably squat and deadlift on the same day. If you feel the need to deadlift separately, I think the solution is two leg days. Lot of people put deadlifts with back, and there are many secondary muscles involved in the lift. But I do think the primary mover is the legs. The main thing is to do the exercise, because deadlifts are in my opinion, the best overall exercise in the gym, with squats a close second. For many years I deadlifted on Saturday, with multiple variations, and I squatted on Tuesdays, again with multiple variations. Always took a day off after each day. Monday was Bench day. Admittedly, my focus was powerlifting, not bodybuilding. I think the main thing is if you are going to do the exercises on separate days, you should put the workouts as far apart as possible in order to completely recover. Just my .02 cents. Good luck deadlifting, and with your back problems.

well... if your bodybuilding which is probably the case.... i would do it on back day... do a whole back work out... pull downs row ... etc.... and same deads for last.. this way you muscles are pre exhausted and you wont be able to lift as much but..... the excersie will still be very beneficial...pulling the lats down and strengthening the lower back... and bro.. some time your back might not be injured .. you might just be soft... ive been there u gotta go threw some growing pain with deads .... and if it continues to be a problem try message therapy ... it worked wonders for myself.. oh and stretch alot...
good lifting...GET BIG!!!

Originally Posted by 4theluvofthsport

well... if your bodybuilding which is probably the case.... i would do it on back day... do a whole back work out... pull downs row ... etc.... and same deads for last.. this way you muscles are pre exhausted and you wont be able to lift as much but..... the excersie will still be very beneficial...pulling the lats down and strengthening the lower back... and bro.. some time your back might not be injured .. you might just be soft... ive been there u gotta go threw some growing pain with deads .... and if it continues to be a problem try message therapy ... it worked wonders for myself.. oh and stretch alot...
good lifting...GET BIG!!!

I have a herniated and multiple bulging disks confirmed by MRI results. I've done every back treatment imaginable from chiro, Vax-D, Accupuncture, physical therapy, etc. I don't appreciate you calling me "soft" without at least getting the full story. I've had several spine specialists recommend surgery but I'm 30 and once I elect to do surgery, there's no turning back. Ive been lifting for ten years in April so i'm not a newbie to lifting. But when you've injured yourself as many times I have, and you still want to lift regularly without always being in pain, you have to find ways around it even if that means not doing an important exercise like deads.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

I have a herniated and multiple bulging disks confirmed by MRI results. I've done every back treatment imaginable from chiro, Vax-D, Accupuncture, physical therapy, etc. I don't appreciate you calling me "soft" without at least getting the full story. I've had several spine specialists recommend surgery but I'm 30 and once I elect to do surgery, there's no turning back. Ive been lifting for ten years in April so i'm not a newbie to lifting. But when you've injured yourself as many times I have, and you still want to lift regularly without always being in pain, you have to find ways around it even if that means not doing an important exercise like deads.

I had two completely blown discs repaired in my lower back, and the key is to find a good surgeon. Mine did a great job, and not even two years later I am very glad I had the procedure done. I would never presume to suggest one way or another, but with all the bad stories out there, I just thought I'd share a positive one. Recovery is daunting, and does take multiple months for most people. Hope you find a workable solution, and I have some idea of the pain you are probably experiencing, so you have my sympathy and my respect for continuing to train. Hope things improve whatever you do. Back pain is very debilitating. I also had some significant nerve damage in my situation, and it got so I was unable to stand up, and both legs were completely numb. When I did go in for surgery, I was scared to death about the outcome.

Originally Posted by MDR

I had two completely blown discs repaired in my lower back, and the key is to find a good surgeon. Mine did a great job, and not even two years later I am very glad I had the procedure done. I would never presume to suggest one way or another, but with all the bad stories out there, I just thought I'd share a positive one. Recovery is daunting, and does take multiple months for most people. Hope you find a workable solution, and I have some idea of the pain you are probably experiencing, so you have my sympathy and my respect for continuing to train. Hope things improve whatever you do. Back pain is very debilitating. I also had some significant nerve damage in my situation, and it got so I was unable to stand up, and both legs were completely numb. When I did go in for surgery, I was scared to death about the outcome.

Thanks for the positive feedback bro. I appreciate that. And I'm glad to hear your surgery was successful. I've heard so many stories of people getting surgery with no success. I've even heard of some where the condition got worse. Probably one reason why I'm hesitant to do it right now. But you're right, finding the right doc is everything.

After DLs, which is my first exercise, I go into weighed machine crunches at the max weight I can get for 5 sets of 10 reps. I then alternate weeks of GMs when I'm not maxing and front squats when I am maxing; again 5 sets of 10 reps at max weight to reach 10 reps.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

I have a herniated and multiple bulging disks confirmed by MRI results. I've done every back treatment imaginable from chiro, Vax-D, Accupuncture, physical therapy, etc. I don't appreciate you calling me "soft" without at least getting the full story. I've had several spine specialists recommend surgery but I'm 30 and once I elect to do surgery, there's no turning back. Ive been lifting for ten years in April so i'm not a newbie to lifting. But when you've injured yourself as many times I have, and you still want to lift regularly without always being in pain, you have to find ways around it even if that means not doing an important exercise like deads.

How about instead of doing deads, just use the leg press machine, and to secure your lowerback just do one leg at a time and keep your lower back (L4,L5) flat into the chair... also in my opinion you need to be concentrating alot on stability work for you lower abdominals and you entire inner unit b/c you have some imbalances which are translating into all the lower back problems.

Originally Posted by ManoMan1117

How about instead of doing deads, just use the leg press machine

I agree with this. You may be in the category of people where doing deadlifts (maybe squats too) just isn't prudent.

offseason i do deads/rack deads on back/traps day (m/w/f split).....precontest i do them on hams/back day (m/t/th/f split)

I didnt mean to be oiffenseive or nothing bro .. .just ive meet a a few people that have complained about pain and it was nothing more than growing pains... good luck bro and shit your pretty gangster if anything i dont even know if id be dead lifting with injury s like that...good luck in whatever you do

4theloveofthesport

I don't agree with doing leg press instead of dead lifts. I do not think anyone with a back injury should ever do leg press with any decent amount of weight (I would argue they shouldn't be doing it period). Doing one leg will place an imbalanced force (To one side or the other) on your back and can increase the likelihood of an injury. And lets face it, the movement isn't natural in the first place.

You shouldn't be lifting with your back anyway, dead lift should be a hamstring/hip movement, the back/abs should be there for support. I think you can still get by doing light dead lifts and going through the movement very slowly. If normal dead lift position hurts your back, try a sumo dead, those are easier on mine and use more of my abs.

I would do deads on a back day. Pullups, single arm rows, pulldowns and machine rows shouldn't be that hard on your back. Just go slow and easy.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

What's the best body part to incorporate deadlifts with? I'd imagine back day but since it's a full body workout, seems like almost any day would work. I think since squats are done on leg day, that may be a lot for a leg workout.

I've always had to work around a back injury so I've avoided deadlifts for a long time. I'm going to try light weight deads and see how my back feels. But I think to step up my game and to take my training to the next level, I need some deads, even at light weight, in my workouts. Thx!

I do deads on back day, and I do them last, so I don't have to pull 400+. I can usually get away in the 300's after fatiguing my back with the rest of my routine. If I do them first, my rows and other back movements suffer weight wise. I agree with you, that if you can manage with your injuries, deadlifts will be a key component in taking your training to the next level. Best of luck, Golfer!

I just got into deadlifts back when I started my cycle 7 weeks ago. I do:

1. Deadlifts Superset with Push Press x 4-5 sets
then
2. Lat pulldowns superset with cable rows 4-5 sets

Im well spent after that and sweating my ass off and just finish with 1 - 2 long sets of shrugs and 1-2 long sets of bicep curls

Originally Posted by Life

I don't agree with doing leg press instead of dead lifts. I do not think anyone with a back injury should ever do leg press with any decent amount of weight (I would argue they shouldn't be doing it period). Doing one leg will place an imbalanced force (To one side or the other) on your back and can increase the likelihood of an injury. And lets face it, the movement isn't natural in the first place.

You shouldn't be lifting with your back anyway, dead lift should be a hamstring/hip movement, the back/abs should be there for support. I think you can still get by doing light dead lifts and going through the movement very slowly. If normal dead lift position hurts your back, try a sumo dead, those are easier on mine and use more of my abs.

I would do deads on a back day. Pullups, single arm rows, pulldowns and machine rows shouldn't be that hard on your back. Just go slow and easy.

my chiro told me leg press is the worst exercise for your back bc you are putting a substantial amount of weight on your disks. He's advised me to not do them. He said he has more people come in for treatment from doing leg presses than any other exercise. Be careful guys. I know when I do leg press, I can def feel pressure against my lower back and disks (where my injury is). You prob won't notice it unless you are paying attention and will be like "wow, there is a lot of pressure on my disks lol). Makes it a lot worse considering you're prob moving 500-800+ lbs, most of which is pressing directly on your disks.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

my chiro told me leg press is the worst exercise for your back bc you are putting a substantial amount of weight on your disks. He's advised me to not do them. He said he has more people come in for treatment from doing leg presses than any other exercise. Be careful guys. I know when I do leg press, I can def feel pressure against my lower back and disks (where my injury is). You prob won't notice it unless you are paying attention and will be like "wow, there is a lot of pressure on my disks lol). Makes it a lot worse considering you're prob moving 500-800+ lbs, most of which is pressing directly on your disks.

The worst exercise for you back is doing Deads with bad posture. When you do a leg press people run into problems for 2 reason 1. they dont keep there lumbar spine flat into the chair and there low back has a posterior tilt. 2. they load up the weight light jackasses. the leg press is not a spinal loaded exercise like a squat or a DL so it cannot put more pressure on your disks than a leg press. In a rehab setting like bulging disc (like the thread was started) doing a single leg leg press makes sense with LOW weight over doing deadlifts, bc its hard to fluck up your lower back posture doing it one leg at a time... Its very easy to fluck up your posture doing regular deads. not to mention if you already have bulging/herniated discs you probably were not doing something correctly from the start... just my opinion..

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

my chiro told me leg press is the worst exercise for your back bc you are putting a substantial amount of weight on your disks. He's advised me to not do them. He said he has more people come in for treatment from doing leg presses than any other exercise. Be careful guys. I know when I do leg press, I can def feel pressure against my lower back and disks (where my injury is). You prob won't notice it unless you are paying attention and will be like "wow, there is a lot of pressure on my disks lol). Makes it a lot worse considering you're prob moving 500-800+ lbs, most of which is pressing directly on your disks.

One thing I found helpful after my rehab was to do leg presses on a machine that allowed me to lie flat on the floor. I've always preferred these machines to any other leg press, and my low back stays much more stable. This was after four months of PT and a couple months of lifting lightly and doing cardio. May not be right for your situation, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Be careful with your back.

Work deads in on back (pull) day.
Do them last and light.
Try to lift in front of a mirror or have a partner watch your form.
Try using a trap bar, it may help.
To be honest, with your injuries I don't know if you should be incorporating deads... you might want to talk to a sports doc before you get rolling.

Originally Posted by Life

I don't agree with doing leg press instead of dead lifts. I do not think anyone with a back injury should ever do leg press with any decent amount of weight (I would argue they shouldn't be doing it period). Doing one leg will place an imbalanced force (To one side or the other) on your back and can increase the likelihood of an injury. And lets face it, the movement isn't natural in the first place.

You shouldn't be lifting with your back anyway, dead lift should be a hamstring/hip movement, the back/abs should be there for support. I think you can still get by doing light dead lifts and going through the movement very slowly. If normal dead lift position hurts your back, try a sumo dead, those are easier on mine and use more of my abs.

I would do deads on a back day. Pullups, single arm rows, pulldowns and machine rows shouldn't be that hard on your back. Just go slow and easy.

I guess it all depends on your goals. I'm a PL/strongman competitor so I will have different agendas than the BBer. But no matter what your goal, you cannot ever say a leg press a good DL substitute.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

my chiro told me leg press is the worst exercise for your back bc you are putting a substantial amount of weight on your disks. He's advised me to not do them. He said he has more people come in for treatment from doing leg presses than any other exercise. Be careful guys. I know when I do leg press, I can def feel pressure against my lower back and disks (where my injury is). You prob won't notice it unless you are paying attention and will be like "wow, there is a lot of pressure on my disks lol). Makes it a lot worse considering you're prob moving 500-800+ lbs, most of which is pressing directly on your disks.

Well, I don't know your chiro but first of all, most chiros I've ever met and talked to don't know shit about shit, let alone lifting. And it comes down to your form on ANY exercise whether or not you place unnecessary strain on other body parts. LP is a very good example; I think I see everyone who does LPs at my gym lowers the sled and then their ass comes off the pad. That's where you get your back problems is if your ass isn't planted. I've found if you arch your back like on a BP and keep your elbows locked against the seat and close your shoulders (imagine you're stretching out a giant band held in front of you), that will keep your ass planted. I only do LPs as an assistance lift after squats, so I don't go THAT heavy (with respect to my potential), but it's still considerable weight for what most people at my gym do as their primary lift and I have zero back problems and zero back pumps from LPs.

Originally Posted by Beejis60

I guess it all depends on your goals. I'm a PL/strongman competitor so I will have different agendas than the BBer. But no matter what your goal, you cannot ever say a leg press a good DL substitute.



Well, I don't know your chiro but first of all, most chiros I've ever met and talked to don't know shit about shit, let alone lifting. And it comes down to your form on ANY exercise whether or not you place unnecessary strain on other body parts. LP is a very good example; I think I see everyone who does LPs at my gym lowers the sled and then their ass comes off the pad. That's where you get your back problems is if your ass isn't planted. I've found if you arch your back like on a BP and keep your elbows locked against the seat and close your shoulders (imagine you're stretching out a giant band held in front of you), that will keep your ass planted. I only do LPs as an assistance lift after squats, so I don't go THAT heavy (with respect to my potential), but it's still considerable weight for what most people at my gym do as their primary lift and I have zero back problems and zero back pumps from LPs.

My chiro is actually a very good friend of mine. I think he has some direct knowledge of exercise related injuries since he treats them on a daily basis. I'd agree with you, most of the injuries he comes across is more than likely from bad form. But you can use perfect form and still get injured. It's just the way it is. Bodybuilders, power lifters, etc. all are known to use perfect form but still get injured from time to time. Shit, I've heard of people doing bench press and blowing out their elbow. Just the sheer weight and stress you put your body thru exercise increases the risk of injury.

That's pretty much exactly it, but I think Dave Tate said it best; most injuries come from lighter weights because you're not treating them like they're high weight... I think that's been true for me from every single injury. I pulled my hamstring when warming up on deads2 months ago while at 475 (going for 600x3 that night), I've slipped disks in my back from DLing at 405 and 365, I've torn a rotator cuff while benching with 85lb DBs; all of those injuries were likely form-related at low weight and I know the rotator cuff was definitely form-related. The elbow of course isn't form-related unless the person(s) had an awkward hitch in their BP and caused their elbows to flare out or something, torquing the joint.

Either way, if you know your chiro on a personal level and he knows his shit, that's obviously better than a random chiro in my opinion. But I agree with your chiro about LPs; I don't like to go over 16 total plates and doing them as a main exercise isn't ideal whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Beejis60

That's pretty much exactly it, but I think Dave Tate said it best; most injuries come from lighter weights because you're not treating them like they're high weight... I think that's been true for me from every single injury. I pulled my hamstring when warming up on deads2 months ago while at 475 (going for 600x3 that night), I've slipped disks in my back from DLing at 405 and 365, I've torn a rotator cuff while benching with 85lb DBs; all of those injuries were likely form-related at low weight and I know the rotator cuff was definitely form-related. The elbow of course isn't form-related unless the person(s) had an awkward hitch in their BP and caused their elbows to flare out or something, torquing the joint.

Either way, if you know your chiro on a personal level and he knows his shit, that's obviously better than a random chiro in my opinion. But I agree with your chiro about LPs; I don't like to go over 16 total plates and doing them as a main exercise isn't ideal whatsoever.

I believe the elbow injury was from the tendons and ligaments giving out. I heard that story from a personal trainer, who also happened to be my good friend's mom. But it was such a long time ago when I heard that story, I can't remember the specifics.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

I believe the elbow injury was from the tendons and ligaments giving out. I heard that story from a personal trainer, who also happened to be my good friend's mom. But it was such a long time ago when I heard that story, I can't remember the specifics.

Ohhh okay, ya, that makes more sense. I bruised a tendon in my knee the other night while squatting; whether it was from my wraps or the movement itself, I'm not sure. Definitely not a good feeling whatsoever; but I can imagine elbows being worse since most bend and use their arms more than their knees on a regular, day to day basis

Deads= Back day.

But you already knew this.

There is a bunch of good info in here.

Originally Posted by rippedgolfer

My chiro is actually a very good friend of mine. I think he has some direct knowledge of exercise related injuries since he treats them on a daily basis. I'd agree with you, most of the injuries he comes across is more than likely from bad form. But you can use perfect form and still get injured. It's just the way it is. Bodybuilders, power lifters, etc. all are known to use perfect form but still get injured from time to time. Shit, I've heard of people doing bench press and blowing out their elbow. Just the sheer weight and stress you put your body thru exercise increases the risk of injury.

The difference when dealing with low back and Deadlifts is important though when talking about form.. In Deadlifting if you are doing them with good form most likely the worst injury you will get is a bad muscle strain or some type of strain to the thoracolumbar fascia (muscle tissue). If you are doing Deads with bad form the injuries will be disc injuries or you will do damage to the ligamentous structure of the lower back. Muscle strain not nearly as big a deal as ligament or disc problems

This has what I have been trying to figure out, what day I should be doing deadlifts and how many days per week I should be doing it. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to deadlift after my warm up and if I want my session under an hour, I have to cut out some exercises because of it. I dont know why it takes so long. I am thinking maybe on deadlift days to do core work after and then do the other body movements on other days.

also - how many days per week does everyone recommend deadlifting?

Originally Posted by caangelxox

This has what I have been trying to figure out, what day I should be doing deadlifts and how many days per week I should be doing it. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to deadlift after my warm up and if I want my session under an hour, I have to cut out some exercises because of it. I dont know why it takes so long. I am thinking maybe on deadlift days to do core work after and then do the other body movements on other days.

also - how many days per week does everyone recommend deadlifting?

I would not do heavy deads more than once a week. Many deadlift every other week and still make huge gains. If you hit legs twice a week, you can do heavy deads for one and light Stiff leg deads on the other. If you do it on back day, once a week is all you really need.

I'm the same way deads usually take up more than half my workout, then I finish up with whatever else I have to do very quickly.

Originally Posted by caangelxox

This has what I have been trying to figure out, what day I should be doing deadlifts and how many days per week I should be doing it. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to deadlift after my warm up and if I want my session under an hour, I have to cut out some exercises because of it. I dont know why it takes so long. I am thinking maybe on deadlift days to do core work after and then do the other body movements on other days.

also - how many days per week does everyone recommend deadlifting?

Depends on your goals. My DLs take between 45-75 minutes total on back days not including my two other assistance lifts. Read further discussion below.

Originally Posted by cshea2

I would not do heavy deads more than once a week. Many deadlift every other week and still make huge gains. If you hit legs twice a week, you can do heavy deads for one and light Stiff leg deads on the other. If you do it on back day, once a week is all you really need.

I'm the same way deads usually take up more than half my workout, then I finish up with whatever else I have to do very quickly.

If you hit legs twice a week, they will need to be one day heavy and one day speed, again, depending on his goals. I personally cannot attempt squatting twice a week except when doing front squats on my DL days as an assistance lift (EOW on my max DL days; GMs on my non-max days). I wouldn't recommend SLDLs though unless you're not going above 365 or so; too much rounding of the back. Romanian DLs are far easier on your back with no rounding.... and I dont think of SLDLs or Rom. DLs as an actual DL but rather a simple hamstring exercise.
I can really only deadlift once a week since I'm not a light lifter.... The problem is I already max EOW so moving my workouts to EOW might be more feasible but I'm not too sure how to procede either maxing everytime I DL or maxing once a month then.... FWIW, Matt Kroc only DLs EOW but he pulls low 8's for max.

I think once a week is sufficient. I devote my entire Sat workout to deadlifts in multiple varieties. I squat on Tuesdays, again with multiple varieties of the lift. I should note my focus is powerlifting, not bodybuilding right now. If you do more than once a week, a light day is advisable.