Thread: Looking for opinions. Bulk or Cut ??

Originally Posted by awhites1

yeah. dude dont do AAS then. just eat clean. sounds like you know what a pain in the ass it can be to lose weight. its easy to get carried away bulking. just eat a little more and powerlift

I have a really hard time losing fat. I'm hoping as I increase my LBM, fat loss will become easier. Funny thing for me is, I am increasing my LBM, but every time I think my legs can't get any bigger they keep growing twice as fast as every other body part of mine. My friends always joke and call me "horse legs."

I have tried many variations of training for adding size, strength, endurance, etc... and when I find something that works, I get happy and stick with it. But no matter what I have found, nothing on my upper body compares to the progress I make on my lower body.

I'm not complaining or anything, because I love the feeling I get from a legs day. But it would be nice to have big arms, big chest, big shoulders as well. But I am probably going to wait until at least 25 - 26 years old before I try any AAS. I have been doing research on them since age 21, and I know quite a bit about AAS, including PCT, ancillaries, blast/cruise, blood work, etc...

The only way I will bulk is clean bulking, because fat loss is an absolute nightmare for me. I will keep you all updated on my progress

Bulking is what you should go for now, cutting before the summer.

Awsome me and you are the same paragraph in the bible lol.... Yea the way you just said you wanna bulk would be best. Have you ever done dropsets when power lifting?

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

Hey guys,

So I have been training natural on and off for about 5 years now.
I am trying to decide if I should cut down or bulk up right now.

My age is 23, my height is 5'11, my weight is 198lbs, and my body fat is about 15%

My goals are probably to get to around 215lbs at 10% body fat, hopefully staying all natural.

I would love some opinions?

If your goal 215lbs and 10% bodyfat, and you are shy of about 25-30 lbs of muscle until you accomplish that goal, what sense would it make cutting?

In no way would cutting put you any closer to your goal...


btw, if this pic is recent, you do not look 198... more like 180ish

Originally Posted by stfuandliftbtch

If your goal 215lbs and 10% bodyfat, and you are shy of about 25-30 lbs of muscle until you accomplish that goal, what sense would it make cutting?

In no way would cutting put you any closer to your goal...

Hold up there - that's not necessarily true. allnaturalkid87 has a hard time dropping fat, plus he's currently 15% bodyfat - probably the top end of bodyfat most guys would want to see on a bulk. See, the fatter you get, the more insulin-resistant you become. This inhibits muscle-gains, and promotes fat-gains. Short story long - the fatter you are while gaining, the fatter you get while bulking.

The tricky part of course is that if you diet down, then switch to bulking, you'll also tend to pack on fat.

A reasonable strategy is to kinda "ride the wave" - aim to keep bodyfat at or near 12% - 15-16% while gaining. When you start to notice bodyfat levels getting slightly out of control - pull back, drop a few pounds, let your body recompose a bit, then gradually creep up the calories while watching the iron getting heavier on the bar.

It's a slow way to gain, but there are fewer wardrobe changes.

Originally Posted by stfuandliftbtch

btw, if this pic is recent, you do not look 198... more like 180ish

Here's the other thing - allnaturalkid87 says why, below - the man has wheels:

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

I have a really hard time losing fat. I'm hoping as I increase my LBM, fat loss will become easier. Funny thing for me is, I am increasing my LBM, but every time I think my legs can't get any bigger they keep growing twice as fast as every other body part of mine. My friends always joke and call me "horse legs."

I have tried many variations of training for adding size, strength, endurance, etc... and when I find something that works, I get happy and stick with it. But no matter what I have found, nothing on my upper body compares to the progress I make on my lower body.

I'm not complaining or anything, because I love the feeling I get from a legs day. But it would be nice to have big arms, big chest, big shoulders as well. But I am probably going to wait until at least 25 - 26 years old before I try any AAS. I have been doing research on them since age 21, and I know quite a bit about AAS, including PCT, ancillaries, blast/cruise, blood work, etc...

The only way I will bulk is clean bulking, because fat loss is an absolute nightmare for me. I will keep you all updated on my progress

allnatural, I'm like you a bit - I gain muscle well, but I gain fat REALLY well and there's hell to pay when I need to cut. I can help you with that part - and I respect the hell out of you for wanting to wait until you're ready to use AAS, and for having horse-legs.

Now, let's get you on track for this. Here's my suggestion to you now: drop a little bit of fat, slowly, until you're down to about 12% bodyfat - which should happen at about 190 - 192 lbs. Once you get there, gradually increase your calories - just an extra 200 calories a day for a week, then add another 200 a day the next week until you start gaining again - then back it off by 200 calories and HOLD it there for no more than a month. Ramp up your training and you'll find your body hardening up and your appetite increasing. When this happens, ramp the daily calories up 200 for a week, then another 200 for another week, then hold it there for a few weeks.

Do you know your current macronutrient mix and calories?

How do you know your 15% BF? I would say closer to 10%.

He's not 10%, but I agree he's not 15% - maybe 12% or 13%.

Originally Posted by Built

Hold up there - that's not necessarily true. allnaturalkid87 has a hard time dropping fat, plus he's currently 15% bodyfat - probably the top end of bodyfat most guys would want to see on a bulk. See, the fatter you get, the more insulin-resistant you become. This inhibits muscle-gains, and promotes fat-gains. Short story long - the fatter you are while gaining, the fatter you get while bulking.

The tricky part of course is that if you diet down, then switch to bulking, you'll also tend to pack on fat.

A reasonable strategy is to kinda "ride the wave" - aim to keep bodyfat at or near 12% - 15-16% while gaining. When you start to notice bodyfat levels getting slightly out of control - pull back, drop a few pounds, let your body recompose a bit, then gradually creep up the calories while watching the iron getting heavier on the bar.

It's a slow way to gain, but there are fewer wardrobe changes.


Here's the other thing - allnaturalkid87 says why, below - the man has wheels:



allnatural, I'm like you a bit - I gain muscle well, but I gain fat REALLY well and there's hell to pay when I need to cut. I can help you with that part - and I respect the hell out of you for wanting to wait until you're ready to use AAS, and for having horse-legs.

Now, let's get you on track for this. Here's my suggestion to you now: drop a little bit of fat, slowly, until you're down to about 12% bodyfat - which should happen at about 190 - 192 lbs. Once you get there, gradually increase your calories - just an extra 200 calories a day for a week, then add another 200 a day the next week until you start gaining again - then back it off by 200 calories and HOLD it there for no more than a month. Ramp up your training and you'll find your body hardening up and your appetite increasing. When this happens, ramp the daily calories up 200 for a week, then another 200 for another week, then hold it there for a few weeks.

Do you know your current macronutrient mix and calories?

Wow, this is a great post from a great moderator !

I won't even address the other posts because Built hit all the nails right on the head. Other than, I know my body fat is 15% because I had it done using DXA Body Comp Scan which is probably the most accurate method of measuring body fat. It's just very evenly distributed, so it doesn't look like I am as high as I am. Even the guy who measured my body fat was shocked when it came out like it did.

I will try your recommendation out for calorie cycling like that. My body like to fight me tooth and nail for everything that I do. When I cut down, it likes to drop fat and muscle easily unless done quite slowly. When I bulk, it has to be done again slowly otherwise I can pack on 5lbs a week of fat.

I know I don't look 198lbs, but again, look at my legs in comparison with my upper body. 5 different scales can't all be lying to me.

My current macronutrient mix and calories are on kind of a carb/calorie cycle. 1800 calories 40-P/40/-F/20-C on off days, 4 times per week. 2500 calories at 40-P/20-F/40-C, 3 times per week. I found my BMR to be 2000 calories without exercise. I only work out 3 times per week, I find any more than that and my gains tends to struggle.

Hope I didn't miss anything, if I did, please let me know

Thanks so much Built! You are my hero

You and I have the male and female equivalents of the same body - my legs were ALWAYS big (although I still derive sick pleasure from making them BIGGER, lol!) but the upper, I had to make on purpose.

I too have had DXAs done, and it's fascinating, isn't it? What was your upper body % fat, and what was the lower? Mine was very disproportionate (more fat on the bottom, very little on top but then, I'm female), and I've had it checked many times.


Can I ask you how many grams pro, cho and fat you're consuming on these percentages? I try to get people away from percentages whenever possible. What are your current average calories and your maintenance calories, and are you currently cutting, bulking or maintaining?

Also, what time do you eat, what do you eat at these times, and when do you train?

Have you ever been fat? Are either of your parents fat?

When are you hungriest - AM or PM?

Do you feel hungry when you eat a lot of carbs, or do they keep you full for a long time?

PS you most certainly do look like 198 lbs. The guys who have no legs look bigger than they are - until they drop their drawers!

Originally Posted by rockhardly

How do you know your 15% BF? I would say closer to 10%.

It's harder to tell with the looseish skin. The man has some big legs though.

bulk for sure bro

Originally Posted by Built

You and I have the male and female equivalents of the same body - my legs were ALWAYS big (although I still derive sick pleasure from making them BIGGER, lol!) but the upper, I had to make on purpose.

I too have had DXAs done, and it's fascinating, isn't it? What was your upper body % fat, and what was the lower? Mine was very disproportionate (more fat on the bottom, very little on top but then, I'm female), and I've had it checked many times.


Can I ask you how many grams pro, cho and fat you're consuming on these percentages? I try to get people away from percentages whenever possible. What are your current average calories and your maintenance calories, and are you currently cutting, bulking or maintaining?

Also, what time do you eat, what do you eat at these times, and when do you train?

Have you ever been fat? Are either of your parents fat?

When are you hungriest - AM or PM?

Do you feel hungry when you eat a lot of carbs, or do they keep you full for a long time?

my fat was proportioned evenly throughout the body. Although it doesn't feel like it sometimes. I am currently doing a body recomp in which I cycle calories. I am hungriest around lunch time. I train in the evening around 8:00pm, I used to be obese. My parents are both overweight. Carbs fill me up but make me crave more food. Protein mixed with fat keeps me full the longest.

Too lazy to type up my diet haha, but I track my calories daily. I know I am moving in the right direction, sometimes I wish it was faster, but I am progressing nicely so I'm just going to stick with it.

Here is a video of me squatting today.

Funny - your depth with 255 was much better than your depth with 245. I was going to make a comment about it but after watching that video I have to say good job.

Update: Squatting 285 x 6 reps. Looking for opinions.

bulk all the way! If you want to stay natural just go for high protein and high carbs, duh, but use products like need2slin to help with the carb shuffling. Stuff like bridge also helped a lot of people gain a good amount of weight. There is a lot sub sterone and blue gene

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

Update: Squatting 285 x 6 reps. Looking for opinions.

Opinions??

you want to cut once body fat gets to high. the level of body fat is a direct indicator of the bodies current ability to metabolize and utilize nutrients efficiently. as insulin sensitivity decreases in the muscles cells more nutrients get stored in fat cells as they do not become resistance to the effects of insulin. so basically the higher the body fat the less muscle will be gained on a bulking diet.