Thread: The outer head of tri

I would suggest focusing on the big compound movements for tris, like close grips or dips. Then throw in an isolations move like press downs and you've got it worked!

Get lean and that "horse shoe" and that "snaggle tooth” will show up

Whatever you do is going to hit all 3 heads, like HardHiter said, stick with basics like Close grip bench, scull crushers, Dips and Push downs.
Heavy and low reps are what I've found to work well with Tri's.

Good Question!

That's all true and should be the base of any good tri routine...BUT....

these exercises stress the LONG head. The outer head is best hit with reverse grip pressdowns. Or underhand. Take a cambered bar on a cable and hold the V palms up. Keep the upper arm locked at the side of your body and SQUEEZE the tris as you press/pull down. Go as heavy as possible w/o sacrificing form and not too heavy so that your grip doesn't give.

Good Point Twin Peak, I use the reverse grip with all my tri work, it makes a world of difference.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Good Question!

That's all true and should be the base of any good tri routine...BUT....

these exercises stress the LONG head. The outer head is best hit with reverse grip pressdowns. Or underhand. Take a cambered bar on a cable and hold the V palms up. Keep the upper arm locked at the side of your body and SQUEEZE the tris as you press/pull down. Go as heavy as possible w/o sacrificing form and not too heavy so that your grip doesn't give.

*** Interesting..... could you explain further how various tricep exercises will "stress" certain heads of the tricep?

First, all tri exercise hit all three heads, you can't work just one head.

Second, most/all tri-pressing movements "stress" the long head, the one closer to your body if your arms are hanging down by your side. Such exercises include v-bar press down, overhead presses, french presses, close-grip benches, actually almost every tri exercise.

By turning your hand upside down on the pressdowns, you change the angle of your upper arm and more load is put on the outer head than if you take a normal grip. As you sit there, put your arm in the normal press down position, rotate the hand so the palm is up. Do this slowly and you will understand.

How do you change the angle of your upper arm if the elbow joint and shoulder joint do not change positions?

Good posts TP and Scottie!

But you guys both do strictly reverse grip pull-downs? What do you guys think of using the rope for your pull-downs?

Oh, and welcome to IM iMadCo!

Originally posted by Training God
How do you change the angle of your upper arm if the elbow joint and shoulder joint do not change positions?

Permit me to rephrase, its the rotation of the lower arm in relation to the upper upper arm (which doesn't move) that causes the stress on the different heads.

Its the same idea as pointing your toes in or out when doing calves or quads.

Originally posted by Corri
Good posts TP and Scottie!

But you guys both do strictly reverse grip pull-downs? What do you guys think of using the rope for your pull-downs?

IMO, they are any inferior pressdown to the V-bar or straight bar, which is essentially the same thing but you can pile on more weight. While the pressdown is a good movement it takes a backseat to the reverse grips in my workouts because the other non-cable exercises I do get the job done.

That said, on occassion I work in pressdowns and even ropes.

Oh..

that is nice from you bros.

well.. let me shear you my won theory I have found !

( Find The Secondary Muscles)

You can apply this with some of these exercises that involve another Group of muscle in the action.

seems know one get it.

Lets have an example that will make it easy to understand.
Tri involve 2 anther group of muscle to make thing done.

1: Back
Close to the inner head.

2: Shoulder
Close to the outer head.

Well, what we want is to causes the stress on the outer head, right.

The secondary muscle that close to this particular head is shoulder.

Now ! find the exercise that involves the shoulder to work more. have you found it ??

Then this is the one


Same thing you can do with bi, if you want to hit the upper area , then go and find the exercise that involves the front shoulder in the action more..

Originally posted by iMadco
Oh..

that is nice from you bros .

well.. let me shear you my won theory I have found !

( Find The Secondary Muscles)

You can apply this with some of these exercises that involve another Group of muscle in the action.

seems know one get it.

Lets have an example that will make it easy to understand.
Tri involve 2 anther group of muscle to make thing done.

1: Back
Close to the inner head.

2: Shoulder
Close to the outer head.

Well, what we want is to causes the stress on the outer head, right.

The secondary muscle that close to this particular head is shoulder.

Now ! find the exercise that involves the shoulder to work more. have you found it ??

Then this is the one


Same thing you can do with bi, if you want to hit the upper area , then go and find the exercise that involves the front shoulder in the action more..

I'm having a little trouble understanding your post, I assume english isn't your first language.
From what i know, most tri exercises don't involve much from back or shoulders, some have a little front delt like close grip bench and some use a little Lat and pec like dips but for the most part its all Tri that gets worked.

I agree that you can "stress" a different head of the tri, just as I believe that you can stress different areas of your quads.

However, with that said, I do not waste my time trying to do it. Even with calves I typically keep my toes almost straight forward.

I am not implying that everyone should do as I do. If you want to use variations in exercises to try and stress certain areas, go ahead.

Originally posted by Scotty the Body


I'm having a little trouble understanding your post, I assume English isn't your first language.
You assume right

From what i know, most tri exercises don't involve much from back or shoulders,
That is the trick.. If you can make the side shoulders
involved. In fact they are with pull-downs by rope

the trick is to force the side shoulder to be the main secondary muscle in the action.

I am finding this in the press down.

well .. Like I mention it is my own one, that It could be wrong.

Originally posted by Twin Peak


Permit me to rephrase, its the rotation of the lower arm in relation to the upper upper arm (which doesn't move) that causes the stress on the different heads.

Its the same idea as pointing your toes in or out when doing calves or quads.

*** EMG testing shows otherwise when you speak of the toes being pointed in or out to emphasize various muscles of the calves or quads.

Bearing this in mind would not the same apply to the triceps?
Even if one were to rotate the lower arm in relation to the upper arm, biomechanically speaking how does this change the outcome?

Originally posted by Training God

*** EMG testing shows otherwise when you speak of the toes being pointed in or out to emphasize various muscles of the calves or quads.

I have read about these studies. I can't dispute them, but have you ever actually done this (change toe position)? (Not trying to sound snide here). Despite what the testing shows, you can quite literally feel the stress change, at least as to calves.

Originally posted by Training God

Bearing this in mind would not the same apply to the triceps?

Its an interesting question. Your point is valid, but still I do BELIEVE that altering hand position changes the stress. I BELIEVE this (no I can't prove it) because (i) as above, I can feel the difference when training, (ii) when I stress the outer head, the relative areas of soreness will change from the long head to the outerhead, and (iii) I have noticed greater outerhead development since adding these to my w/os. True, this is all quite subjective, but I'll still incorporate them.

Originally posted by Training God

Even if one were to rotate the lower arm in relation to the upper arm, biomechanically speaking how does this change the outcome?

I think my response above details what my OPINION is on this one.

For example:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
.

By turning your hand upside down on the pressdowns, you change the angle of your upper arm and more load is put on the outer head than if you take a normal grip. As you sit there, put your arm in the normal press down position, rotate the hand so the palm is up. Do this slowly and you will understand.

I must be dense but I can't picture this... all I see is if I turn my hand so my palm is up, I see myself working my bicep instead...

I wish they would have a picture of this....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Twin Peak


I have read about these studies. I can't dispute them, but have you ever actually done this (change toe position)? (Not trying to sound snide here). Despite what the testing shows, you can quite literally feel the stress change, at least as to calves.

*** Actually I don't feel a change in the contraction of the muscles involved. That's why I was questioning you and not so much trying to argue.



Its an interesting question. Your point is valid, but still I do BELIEVE that altering hand position changes the stress. I BELIEVE this (no I can't prove it) because (i) as above, I can feel the difference when training, (ii) when I stress the outer head, the relative areas of soreness will change from the long head to the outerhead, and (iii) I have noticed greater outerhead development since adding these to my w/os. True, this is all quite subjective, but I'll still incorporate them.



I think my response above details what my OPINION is on this one.


*** I was just wondering, I've been looking for a scientific explanation for this phenomenon but I can't seem to come to a conclusion why this might happen.
I'm also going to experiment with my chest since it is my weakest and ugliest bodypart. Not that any of my bodyparts ooze sex appeal or anything.

Originally posted by lina


I must be dense but I can't picture this... all I see is if I turn my hand so my palm is up, I see myself working my bicep instead...

I wish they would have a picture of this....

Exactly like a curl....except you are pressing down from an overhead cable.

TG, your questions are good and not argumentative -- didn't mean to imply they were.

Bottom line is I honestly don't have a scientific explanation, sorry. Experiment for yourself, if you don't feel the difference, you may not be getting any.

What chest experimenting are you planning/considering?

Originally posted by Twin Peak


What chest experimenting are you planning/considering?

*** Flat Cable Flys the emphasis will placed placed near the peak of contraction.

Dumbbell Flat Flys

Incline Bench Press using a steep angle and pushing apart my arms ( although they will not actually move) as I iniate the concentric portion of the lift.

I will do this for 8-10 weeks and then take a pic to see if there is any difference in the upper fibres of my chest and the inside of my chest.

My problem has always been the upper chest. I quickly got strong but didn't have the development I wanted. Years ago I switched from starting with flat bench (just got me functionally stronger) to starting with incline dumbbells. Incline dumbells have truly done wonders for my chest development, plus I can still lift heavy weights! BTW, you don't want to got steep on any incline for chest.

Do you in intend to do the cable flys as a finisher or to preexhaust the inner chest? I have never found this to be an effective movement, and while I believe you can stress upper as opposed to lower chest, I do not believe that you can (or should) stress inner as opposed to outer chest.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
BTW, you don't want to got steep on any incline for chest.

Do you in intend to do the cable flys as a finisher or to preexhaust the inner chest? I have never found this to be an effective movement, and while I believe you can stress upper as opposed to lower chest, I do not believe that you can (or should) stress inner as opposed to outer chest.

*** I'm going to change the incline so that my shoulders will recieve some more stress but not enough to bring them to failure before my chest does.
Plus I wil be bringing the bar down towards my neck, not my nipples.

The cable flys wil be done as a finisher most likely with my flat flys being performed first. As for the inner vs outer debate, I understand and I'm simply experimenting with myself. That is all.

Cool, always good to self experiment. I'd be curious to hear the results.

Maki, be careful with to-the-neck benching.

I will.
I've run into problems before with my elbows, so my weight will be relatively less.
Thanks for the advice.

Good good.

Shoulder impingements aren't out of the question either.