Thread: biceps and triceps

Nah doing them together wouldn't necessarily be better. Most people tend to do triceps on chest day and bi's on back day since they are respectively used quite a bit training chest and back.

A lot of people group tri's with back and bi's with chest also. You can work them harder with heavier weight if they aren't pre-exhausted. I do both. Right now I do chest/tri's and back/bi's and give arms their own day at the end of the rotation as well. You just have to switch it up and see which way gets the numbers on the tape measure to go up fastest. I generally do better with more frequency/more volume for bi's and tri's.

^^^^thats great advise right there^^^^

Working Antagonistic muscle groups in a Super or Giant set in a Drop/ Triple Drop Set with 5sets, 2warm up and 3 working sets)are the best way to go. Taking the muscles to complete failure/exhaustion is the best way to build muscle FAST! Im found this to work best in the high rep ranges, especially when going heavy.
Antagonistic

^+1

there is no harm in it. a while back i kinda plateaued with my arms and did a tri/bi workout i got from a mag. Worked well when you need a switch up. You get a huge pump in your arms.

I like working biceps and triceps on the same day. I can't though, with push/pull/leg schedule. I do, however, find this schedule better for my tricep. It has gotten stronger faster than my bicep. Weird.

It is good to switch things up every 3-4 months. Right now, I do tri's and bi's together. Then, I will change back to Chest/Tri's and Back/Bi's. Remember that when you do them with a body part that is already pre-exhausting them, you do not need as many sets. It is better to really concentrate on form and contract the muscles.
I also find that I am much stronger on both tri's and bi's when I train them together vs training them with a larger bodypart that pre fatigues them. So, that being said, it is better when you train these two together to pick one very good compound exercise each (Bi's - barbel/ez curl curls) ; Tri's (Close grip bench press) and get into the 5-8 rep range where that last rep is really a struggle.
Good Luck.

Also you want to think about the Negatives. The eccentric contractions as its also known as. Slowly lower the weight. When you do Antagonistic muscle groups your secondary muscles are still being worked. Such as a Chest/Back day. Lets say you do incline dumb bell press super seated with lat pull downs. These exercises are still incorporating the Bi's (pull down)and Tri's(bench)

I Keep 'em separate and go hard on each on of 'em.

Originally Posted by Diesel618

A lot of people group tri's with back and bi's with chest also. You can work them harder with heavier weight if they aren't pre-exhausted.

THIS! I try to change my workout up to keep my gains moving along, but working bi's and tri's with opposing muscle groups has helped me alot. I would however, occasionally train them together because you get a mad pump. If you can't enjoy what you do in the gym, what's the point?

Originally Posted by Rohde

Is there an advantage to doing biceps and triceps the same day? I do Mon-Fri in the gym and concentrate Tues on biceps and Fri on triceps. I'm seeing gains as is but if there's a better way I'm always up for changing things.

I hope your not saying you give a full day to biceps and a full day to triceps, if so id like to see what the rest of your week looks like.

I just farted.

Do 1-3 sets of biceps and triceps after some other workout. Built usually recommends doing them before legs if i'm not mistaken, which is probably the best place for them. They won't be tired from other work, and they won't interfere with squats at all.

In fact, yeah. Put a few sets for bis and tris before your squats on leg day. When i say a few, i mean a max of three. Don't lose any sleep if you don't do any arm work whatsoever. The last two years i've trained arms directly about twice and they've grown from about 15" to 16.5".

Best way to gain an inch on your arms is to put on 20lbs bodyweight. Put them wherever you like, do whatever exercises you like, just don't waste any more than 15 minutes a week on them.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Do 1-3 sets of biceps and triceps after some other workout. Built usually recommends doing them before legs if i'm not mistaken, which is probably the best place for them. They won't be tired from other work, and they won't interfere with squats at all.

In fact, yeah. Put a few sets for bis and tris before your squats on leg day. When i say a few, i mean a max of three. Don't lose any sleep if you don't do any arm work whatsoever. The last two years i've trained arms directly about twice and they've grown from about 15" to 16.5".

Best way to gain an inch on your arms is to put on 20lbs bodyweight. Put them wherever you like, do whatever exercises you like, just don't waste any more than 15 minutes a week on them.

You shouldnt ever work small bodyparts before bigger ones. You ALWAYS want to work the biggest muscle group first, then proceeding down to the smaller ones. Same as compound movements to isolation. In other words, squats come first, bi's last. Why wouldnt you want all your energy non obstructed (even by smaller muscle groups such as bis and tris) going into a full body movement? Doesnt make sense. But I do agree with not nec. needing a specific arm day, your compound movements will hit your arms pretty well on their own, if you do give them their own, make it the last day of your week before you rest and after your bigger major muscle groups.

My gym got a few Krank cycles (like using your arms on a stationary bike setup), and a couple months ago I switched my workout around so that I had a bicep/tricep day. I did cardio on the Krank after my arm work, and the pumps and burn were impressive, and although I only did it for 4 weeks, I noticed a difference in size (no measure, but it was even more difficult to scratch my shoulder, so I know something grew). If I wanted to target my arms, I'd go back to that routine, but my chest/lats are lagging, so I'm back to split chest/tri and trap/bi days.

Built's "Baby Got Back" program has, in my opinion, the perfect amount of arm isolation to give them that extra oomph.

As Gaz said, training arms directly isn't necessary. I don't train arms directly anymore aside from when I did BGB (and I'll probably do it again for a break from 5/3/1 this summer for a couple months..and for fun). If you do them, make it minimal, don't do crap momentum sets, go "light" and control the movement.

Squats and deads, etc, are "lifts", where the goal is often building muscle but ideally you focus on numbers (with technique of course). With curls and the like numbers mean nothing, it's all controlling the exercise to work the muscle you're targeting. Otherwise there's no value to them at all.

In Built's program you have two lower workouts: quad dominant (ham accessory) and ham dominant (quad acc). Because the upper workouts work arms indirectly she puts the arm isolation on the lower days. You can do them at the end or, as I did it, in between exercises starting AFTER the main lift of the day. I never go into heavy squats or deads with any pre-exhaustion of any type, especially for deads where you actually need your arm strength. She calls for one day of biceps and one of triceps. I liked to do one of each. Well, actually I sub'd one of the tri's for shrugs but doesn't matter. Also, she calls for one at 5 x 5 and the other at 3 x 15. I don't like low rep isolatin so I did both 3 x 15 but whatever don't overthink it.

Example: (quad dominant - ham accessory)

Squats: 5 x 5
**BB curls: 3 x 15
BB Split Squats: 3 x 8
**DB Overhead Tri Extensions: 3 x 15
BB Romanian Deadlifts: 3 x 12-15

Originally Posted by control101

You shouldnt ever work small bodyparts before bigger ones. You ALWAYS want to work the biggest muscle group first, then proceeding down to the smaller ones. Same as compound movements to isolation. In other words, squats come first, bi's last. Why wouldnt you want all your energy non obstructed (even by smaller muscle groups such as bis and tris) going into a full body movement? Doesnt make sense. But I do agree with not nec. needing a specific arm day, your compound movements will hit your arms pretty well on their own, if you do give them their own, make it the last day of your week before you rest and after your bigger major muscle groups.

What you said is absolutely correct. You're preaching to the choir. I do no isolation work whatsoever so it's kind of a moot point to do compounds first - they're all compounds for me!

We're talking about arms training here, which to be honest isn't really that important at all. I've gone about 5 years without a regular arms day, and really only do direct arms work every few months or even less often.

Heres a good Bi and Tri WO
DTP Superset:

• Alternating Dumbbell Curls:
  1 set of 50 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 10 reps
  
  1 set of 10 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 50 reps
• 3-Exercise Tricep Extensions:Alternate between Skullcrushers, Rockers, and Head Smackers.
  1 set of 50 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 10 reps
  
  1 set of 10 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 50 reps
  

Starting Highest reps with the lightest weight. As the reps decrease the weight moves up, heaviest at 10 reps then reverse it. You stay with the heaviest weight with 10 reps then dropping the weight as the reps increase.

A total of 600 reps. You are going to have a massive pump at the end of this WO. You do the 50 curls then right away going for the 50 tri's then rest. Continue the super set alternating bi's and tri's 40, 30, 20, 10 then 10, 20, 30, 40, 50

Originally Posted by TJTJ

Heres a good Bi and Tri WO
DTP Superset:

• Alternating Dumbbell Curls:
  1 set of 50 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 10 reps
  
  1 set of 10 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 50 reps
• 3-Exercise Tricep Extensions:Alternate between Skullcrushers, Rockers, and Head Smackers.
  1 set of 50 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 10 reps
  
  1 set of 10 reps
  1 set of 20 reps
  1 set of 30 reps
  1 set of 40 reps
  1 set of 50 reps

Starting Highest reps with the lightest weight. As the reps decrease the weight moves up, heaviest at 10 reps then reverse it. You stay with the heaviest weight with 10 reps then dropping the weight as the reps increase.

A total of 600 reps. You are going to have a massive pump at the end of this WO. You do the 50 curls then right away going for the 50 tri's then rest. Continue the super set alternating bi's and tri's 40, 30, 20, 10 then 10, 20, 30, 40, 50

This seems great for a shock, or a change of pace, But i wouldn't use it all the time. Seems it would be great for a plateau style breaker