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| Training Learn proper form, techniques, & routines. Post questions about weight training as it relates to muscle building.
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: singapore
Posts: 13
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ahem i am rather confused... i go to the gym for about a month now.. and i have found that my body gets tired become i can get the soreness ... is it common ?? should i add more weights? but once i add weight i cannot lift it up my reps will go down ... what is this suppose to mean ? what is the best suggestion i should do inorder to get the sorness back ? |
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#2 |
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the one & only
Administrator
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sounds like your body has adapted to your routine.
There are several things you can do: change your routine, use different exercises, increase weight, add some techniques like super setting or forced reps. also, you do not always have to get sore from a work-out, there can still be progress (hypertrophy) with out soreness. |
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#3 |
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Pizza the Hut
Super Moderator
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Almost the only times I ever get sore, are after coming off an extended layoff and overdoing it.
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Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks |
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#4 |
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The little feller
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: liverpool(u.k)
Posts: 164
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i rareley get very sore any moor used to wen very first started though!
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#5 | |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Quote:
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Being held down by The Man
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#6 | |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Re: soreness
Quote:
Take a weight you can do 8 reps with. The next week aim fo more reps. Once you hit 12 reps with that weight, either up the weight slightly for your second set, or if you've done all your sets for the exercise, next week, up the weight. Reps usually go down in accordance. So you started with say, 200lbs for 8 reps and worked up to 12 reps. You then up the weight to, say, 210lbs, and your reps go down to say, 8. Work the reps up again to 12 over time (i.e. several weeks, or maybe between sessions if you're a newer lifter or on AAS). Repeat cycle so eventually, after a few months or a year, you'll have went from 200lbs @ 8 reps, to say, 300lbs at 8 reps. By then you'll have grown quite considerably providing adequate diet and not too much volume/frequency. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#7 | |
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the one & only
Administrator
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Quote:
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#8 |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Typo.
Answer el questionio. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#9 |
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the one & only
Administrator
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it's basically what the term says: the body, e.g muscles, "adapt" to training either by muscles getting larger and/or stronger...there are different types of adaptation as well.
"Systematic training results in certain structural and physiological changes, or adaptations, in the body. The size and definition of the body's muscles indicate the level of adaptation. The magnitude of these adaptations is directly proportional to the demands placed upon the body by volume (quantity) of training, frequency of training and intensity (load) of training." Periodization for building muscle power and mass By Tudor O. Bompa, PhD & Lorenzo J. Cornacchia |
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#10 | |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Quote:
Providing he's getting stronger and heavier (within reason), then he's growing. Why would he want to change it around? You made it sound like his routine is now fruitless and something needs to be changed. Where was the option for keeping doing what he's doing? |
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Being held down by The Man
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#11 |
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the one & only
Administrator
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yeah, I guess it sounded that way.
![]() we really need more info to determine whether or not he needs to change anything. I was just suggesting some techinques to keep his body off balance. by his post it sounded like he was going in and doing the same thing for the past month and is no longer seeing/feeling any results, hell it's possible that he's just over training but I also said that soreness is not neceassary, many poeple judge the effectiveness of their work-outs by soreness. |
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#12 |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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He's just equating soreness with growth.
Once he realises the correlation is thinner than it appears, he should be right. Just as long as he's getting bigger and stronger. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#13 |
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I'm Dead Sexxxxy!!
Elite Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,970
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My legs have hurt like hell for two days now, I must have done something right.
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Cool
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#14 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: singapore
Posts: 13
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ahem my rountine is 3 days a week in a gym gor estimate 1.5hrs each session.
monday arms and shoulder wednesday chest and back friday legs saturday will have a judo session Hmmpz... thanks ... that means i should increase my number of reps for lets say i am carrying 150lbs if i can manage to do it more then 12 that for 3 times means that it is time to add more weight till i am able to lift 8 reps for 3 times? till i can reach 12 reps?? |
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#15 | |
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2 Samuel 24:24
Elite Member
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Quote:
You dont have to do 3 sets on everything though, i do 3 on my overall exercise (like for chest is bench, legs-squat) then do 2 for my other 'targeting' type exercise ( flys, d/b decline whatever) |
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#16 |
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Just me, being me.
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I have a habit of always doing four sets
am I alone in this? |
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*^All good things come to those who weight (lift!!!)^*
![]() *^I'm the thread killer I'm the thread killer I'm the come from behind I'm the post attacker^*
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#17 |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Drug use supports higher volume.
If i was only doing one or two exercises, i may do 4 sets for each. But for the most part, 2 sets is the norm, with 3 sets max on certain days if i fancy. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#18 |
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Peak Physiques™
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,967
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I prefer three sets for most exercises.
Also, I agree with Rob 100% on progressively overloading the muscles, however, I prefer a 6-10 rep range rather than 8-12 for optimal musclar hypertrophy (for most people). Further, I think Prince's idea of "switching it up" is a valuable tool; but not until one is much more advanced does it become remotely necessary. Lastly, I don't think soreness is always necessary, but I still get very sore from ALMOST every good workout. I do think it is a positive indicator of future hypertrophy and a lack of soreness, IMO, is due to muscular adaptation and, likely, not training at or near failure. I am not saying you cannot grow without getting sore, I am saying that I do not believe you are growing optimally. Last edited by Twin Peak : 11-11-2002 at 08:38 AM. |
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#19 |
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Bearded Attacker
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So, to get stronger, do heavier weights, lesser reps..right? I've been using the 8-12 rep range...slowly getting stronger, although I'm still a weakling compared to most of you guys! bastards! I'll catch you some day!
Also, I usually have to do smith-machine bench or hammer strength b/c I don't have a lift partner..this could be affecting my progress..a good lift partner can motivate you to do more, and I miss those good ol' days of lifting in high school with my buds. |
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www.kingsburymusic.net
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#20 | ||
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Quote:
![]() I personally use 4-6 for the first set (or first two sets) and then 8-12 for the second. Quote:
If i went into the gym and did 40 sets for every bodypart for the next 20 weeks, i'd be sore as hell. Would i be growing optimally? Obviously this isn't the best example, since 20 weeks of that and i'd be overtrained to hell and back so i'd not grow from that, but a person can actually grow quite nicely from a few weeks of high volume, cause when they come off it, the supercompensation can be a very anabolic environment, so i could say 40 sets for 4 weeks. But you get the point i'm trying to convey. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#21 | |
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Peak Physiques™
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,967
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Quote:
In other words, lets use a scale of 1-20. 1 is where you have not trained at all and thus no gains would result and there us zero soreness. Twenty is the worst form of overtraining humanly possible, like your first example Rob. Extreme soreness results and no hypertrophy results but rather atrophy. 10 is the OPTIMAL workout, producing the most size gains possible. IMO, you are probably getting sore, if only slightly when you hit a 7 or 8. Thus, if you are not typically getting sore you are only achieving a 6, at best, falling short of your potential. 11-13 you are getting sore, probably too sore and slightly overtraining but probably producing better results than a 6. 14 and up and you are in trouble, but yes sore. This is a very black and white example, but you get my point. ![]() |
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#22 |
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the one & only
Administrator
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your example is stating that soreness is necessary for hypertrophy to occur.
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#23 |
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Peak Physiques™
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,967
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Sorry, guess I left out that on this scale 2-6 included training that produced hypertrophy in to an escalating degree.
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#24 |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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Hypertrophy resides under a bell-shaped curve.
Too little and no hypertrophy. Too much and no hypertrophy (or atrophy is greater). Under the curve and you're bang on. Supply enough calories (and nutrients) to support the growth, but not too many to promote the growth of fat cells, and you're sorted. Aim to outlift your previous week's accomplishment or use techniques to damage the muscle (in a good way). Here's the real key: repeat. Seriously, consistancy is a severely overlooked principle. |
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Being held down by The Man
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#25 |
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Designer Supplements
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,151
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If i give that a really fancy name i could make quite a bit of money.
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Being held down by The Man
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#26 |
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Peak Physiques™
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 7,967
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I agree with all of that. How about the Consistent_Daddy_Principle?
The point though, of this discussion was not whether you are under the bell curve. The curve is quite large. You can be anywhere within two standard deviations of the mean and still cause growth. The question is how do you KNOW you are dead on. The answer, of course, is you don't. But I have suggested, and still maintain, that if you are not regularly getting sore, you KNOW you are not dead on. |
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