Thread: compound or isolation

Overall? Compound for sure.

Food.

Compound is better for gaining mass hands down. Food has to be there for sure. A good diet consisting of around 4000 calories (depending on current size) along with some heavy compound lifts and you should grow like a weed.

Isolation movements are more for shaping the muscle. I do think they have their place in gaining. For the most part, I rely on the compounds for building usually 3 compound lifts per body part then I'll finish off with a shaping iso lift such as flys or leg ext.

Food, rest, compound lifts and more food.

Originally Posted by Built

Food.

I really think that you are talking about two different things here.

Compound movements are for building muscle mass and strength. Especially when you are just starting out. You don't get a big chest from doing cable crossovers, you get them from various angles of bench pressing, as well as dips.

Isolation movements are more for shaping muscle you already have. You see when you read a lot of magazines that the bodybuilders do a ton of these exercices, especially pre-contest. But remember that these guys have already spent countless hours in the gym doing the grunt work (compounds) and have a solid base to work with.

Originally Posted by SuperLift

Isolation movements are more for shaping the muscle.

Originally Posted by pwloiacano

Isolation movements are more for shaping muscle you already have. You see when you read a lot of magazines that the bodybuilders do a ton of these exercices, especially pre-contest. But remember that these guys have already spent countless hours in the gym doing the grunt work (compounds) and have a solid base to work with.

This is a myth that just won't die. You cannot change the shape of a muscle - only its size.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Food, rest, compound lifts and more food.

This

Originally Posted by Built

This is a myth that just won't die. You cannot change the shape of a muscle - only its size.

Hey built got a question for ya over this statement....I know you cant "change" the shape of a muscle, but can you i guess the word would be "define" it MORE by doing isolation movements than compound? Does that make sense?

Edit: I was thinking about the way i said that, and what i meant by that is: When i do compound movements, and dont do as many iso's (bulking) my muscles tend to get softer, and when i do more iso than compunds (cutting) then my muscles get harder...is this just me, or is this the way everyones body responds to it? Does that make more sense? lol, sorry something about the way im saying this doesnt sound right in my head.

Originally Posted by Dustdatarse

Hey built got a question for ya over this statement....I know you cant "change" the shape of a muscle, but can you i guess the word would be "define" it MORE by doing isolation movements than compound? Does that make sense?

I'll let built answer of course, but I don't even think you can "define" a muscle either. Growth is all you are doing to muscle, as it grows it's appearance changes by growing, but it doesn't change shape or become defined.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

I'll let built answer of course, but I don't even think you can "define" a muscle either. Growth is all you are doing to muscle, as it grows it's appearance changes by growing, but it doesn't change shape or become defined.

I jsut did an edit,to try and explain it more haha...im open ears to anyone with feedback, just thought about that this morning when i read what built had to say.

Originally Posted by Dustdatarse

I jsut did an edit,to try and explain it more haha...im open ears to anyone with feedback, just thought about that this morning when i read what built had to say.

Read your edit, don't get what you mean by softer and harder. Maybe just more blood saturation after iso's, but let's wait for Built.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Read your edit, don't get what you mean by softer and harder. Maybe just more blood saturation after iso's, but let's wait for Built.

Ok, lets say i decide to do a 12 week bulk. so i start compound movements with few iso's. As the 12 weeks go on, my muscles seem to get softer the more weeks that pass (ex. i could grab my chest and shake it and my chest muscles will bounce all over the place). After that 12 weeks is up i decide im going to do more iso's now. After about 4 weeks of doing more iso's than compound then i notice my muscles are getting harder, and by the end of the 12 weeks of iso's i can grab my chest and shake it and the muscle will hardly move. I hate not being able to show someone what im talkin about...lol.

I get what you're saying but have no clue why that would be. Looking forward to Built responding.

Pump. Makes you fuller. Probably more glycogen, too.

To the bulking guy: your 'muscles' get softer because your adding fat on top of them as you bulk. This will give you the impression of softer arms. When you cut, you lose the fat surrounding the muscle and your sense of touch causes you to perceive they are harder.


Muscles get larger when you train them. If one wants a bigger bodypart, one can help accomplish this by working it directly.

I've noticed there's a big backlash against isolation movements. I think this derives from skinny, weak people spending a large part of their routines with movements that have them moving relatively light loads using single-joint movements.

Squats, deadlifts, presses will build the foundation. After a certain point, one will experience diminishing results growing in growth from solely compound movements.

One can get pretty big from mostly compounds, but if one wants to get bigger, iso movements may be necessary.

Ahhh, ok that makes sense. Thanks for your guys input.

Originally Posted by bb16

which is better for overall mass

compound exercises utilize muscles across 2 joints you can use substantially more working loads and will increase strength more progressively in these exercises. that's why people say they are for mass

isolation exercise utilize muscles only across 1 joint. for that reason it is obviously substantially harder to increase the load used in these exercises.

it doesn't matter if a workout is based on machines or on free weights any properly designed training program should be based on compound exercises and supplemented with isolation exercises.

Compounds lifts coupled with the right diet and rest will make you grow big time

Looked through some old training journals in the garage today (my girl is at a baby shower) and I found that my ratio for compound to isolation movement is 3/1 or 4/2 depending on training duration. I think a good routine needs both, just don't overdo the iso or overtrain a given bodypart. Eat, rest, grow!

Here's a fun fact from my experience. When I was younger I wanted bigger arms. I figured it would be a good idea to train my arms more directly to add mass to them. So off I went and incorporated a large amount of isolation for biceps and triceps at expense of compound lifts. In six months my arms grew by about half an inch. Obviously, I wasn't pleased. A year later I started a compound lift only routine which I decided to give a try for 3 months. In those three months I didn't do one isolation lift and not a single bicep curl. I focused on heavy bb rows, pull-ups, chin-ups, bench press, deadlifts, squats and dips. At the end of the three months, with the right diet, I was up 14 lbs, my right arm grew by 1.5 inches and my left arms 1.25 inches (still remember the stats from back then because they impressed me).

Some weeks now I do no direct bicep or tricep work at all. It really isn't needed now. And if I do, it's 2-3 sets and done.

Great post Captain.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Some weeks now I do no direct bicep or tricep work at all. It really isn't needed now. And if I do, it's 2-3 sets and done.

Great post Captain.

Do you just take that day off when you dont do them, or do you throw in some other workouts?